‘Incredibly’ Low Progesterone Levels For An Adolescent Normal?

[HChpalley]

Hey all,

I got my lab values back and my Progesterone levels came back as: Progesterone <0,3 nmol/L. I just hit adulthood and am a male. Arent’t these labs very low, given my age? I have seen labs/hospitals that except an upper limit of 6.6 nmol/L for males.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Hans]

Yes that is low. Have you had any other hormones tested as well?
What's your diet like?

 

[Broco6679]

Yes that is low. Have you had any other hormones tested as well?
What's your diet like?

Not the op, but I also have a reading of < 0.3 nmol/L.

What other tests would you advice? My testosterone was low normal, lh low normal, fsh below range, estradiol mid-range, dhea-s low normal.

 

[Hans]

Not the op, but I also have a reading of < 0.3 nmol/L.

What other tests would you advice? My testosterone was low normal, lh low normal, fsh below range, estradiol mid-range, dhea-s low normal.

Prolactin, vitamin D, cortisol, cholesterol, free fatty acids, triglycerides, (adrenaline, platelet and free serotonin if you want to spend a little more on these) and a thyroid panel. Something is inhibiting your hypothalamus (and keeping LH and FSH low), which could be estrogen, serotonin, prolactin, inflammation, low thyroid and elevated parathyroid hormone.

 

[Broco6679]

Here are the bloods you mentioned:

FSH 1.49 IU/L (Range: 1.5 - 12.4)
LH 5.18 IU/L (Range: 1.7 - 8.6)
Oestradiol 71.2 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
Testosterone 12.6 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)
Free Testosterone - Calc. 0.263 nmol/L (Range: 0.2 - 0.62)
Prolactin 111 mU/L (Range: 86 - 324)
Vitaamin D 120 nmol/L

DHEA Sulphate: 6.450 umol/L (Range: 5.73 - 13.4)
Cortisol AM (serum): 119.0 nmol/L (Range: 166 - 507)
Progesterone: < 0.3 nmol/L

TSH: 1.60 mIU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)
Free Thyroxine: 14.200 pmol/L (Range: 12 - 22)
Free T3: 6.09 pmol/L (Range: 3.1 - 6.8)

Total Cholesterol: 3.92 mmol/L (Range: 0 - 5)
LDL Cholesterol: 2.38 mmol/L (Range: < 3)
Non-HDL Cholesterol: 2.81 mmol/L (Range: < 4)
HDL Cholesterol: 1.05 mmol/L (Range: > 1.1)

You're right that something is inhibiting my hypothalamus, shown by my low FSH, but nothing on paper explains what.

I have very strong symptoms of hypothryoridism despite bloods looking great, and I imagine the low cortisol and poor adrenal function is implicated in this. I'm not sure if this is just a product of deficient progesterone though, since it's the precursor to cortisol and aldosterone. I haven't had adrnealine or serotonin tested, but I have strong symptoms that suggest both are chronically elevated, especially the former.

If you have any thoughts I'd greatly appreciate it.

Sorry for hijacking op's thread, but since we have the exact same issue it might help them and others too. Thanks for you suggestions.

 

[Hans]

Here are the bloods you mentioned:

FSH 1.49 IU/L (Range: 1.5 - 12.4)
LH 5.18 IU/L (Range: 1.7 - 8.6)
Oestradiol 71.2 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
Testosterone 12.6 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)
Free Testosterone - Calc. 0.263 nmol/L (Range: 0.2 - 0.62)
Prolactin 111 mU/L (Range: 86 - 324)
Vitaamin D 120 nmol/L

DHEA Sulphate: 6.450 umol/L (Range: 5.73 - 13.4)
Cortisol AM (serum): 119.0 nmol/L (Range: 166 - 507)
Progesterone: < 0.3 nmol/L

TSH: 1.60 mIU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)
Free Thyroxine: 14.200 pmol/L (Range: 12 - 22)
Free T3: 6.09 pmol/L (Range: 3.1 - 6.8)

Total Cholesterol: 3.92 mmol/L (Range: 0 - 5)
LDL Cholesterol: 2.38 mmol/L (Range: < 3)
Non-HDL Cholesterol: 2.81 mmol/L (Range: < 4)
HDL Cholesterol: 1.05 mmol/L (Range: > 1.1)

You're right that something is inhibiting my hypothalamus, shown by my low FSH, but nothing on paper explains what.

I have very strong symptoms of hypothryoridism despite bloods looking great, and I imagine the low cortisol and poor adrenal function is implicated in this. I'm not sure if this is just a product of deficient progesterone though, since it's the precursor to cortisol and aldosterone. I haven't had adrnealine or serotonin tested, but I have strong symptoms that suggest both are chronically elevated, especially the former.

If you have any thoughts I'd greatly appreciate it.

Sorry for hijacking op's thread, but since we have the exact same issue it might help them and others too. Thanks for you suggestions.

What physical and mental symptoms do you have?

 

[Broco6679]

Feel very cold all the time, especially extremities. Food never makes me feel warmer.
Hair and eyebrows are thinning in a diffuse pattern.
Underarm temps and pulse are low at 35.8 c / 52 bpm am; 36.6 c / 65 BPM pm
Absent libido and erectile dysfunction.
Regular palpitations, pounding heart and arrhythmia.
Cognitive impairment and memory issues.
Bowel issues w/ bloating, gas and loose stool everyday.
Fatigue and low energy.
Lost all exercise tolerance and endurance - even mild exertion makes me nauseous and causes rapid lactate buildup.
Blood glucose levels are sometimes in pre-diabetes territory two hours after meals high in starch.
Physical anxiety symptoms that suggest chronically elevated adrenaline.
Depressive tenancies.
Rapid tooth decay dispute eating sugary / acidic foods with a straw, and brushing 3 x a day.
Sagging, wrinkled and aging skin.
Slow healing cuts that always scar.
Dry, flaking skin over entire body

Quite the list, I know. Feels like my body is decaying in every department.
For context, I'm 22 y/o, 5'10 and 170 lbs.
History of intense caloric restriction, paleo and fasting; have been eating 3k calories, high carb, high protein, no pufa for over a year with no improvement.
Was on T injections for three years 18-21, but have been off for over a year. Test levels are same now as they were pre-trt. Was mislead by incompetent doctors and trt forums thinking t was the answer, but it made things worse. I know now that my low t is a symptom of, not the cause of my issues.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Feel very cold all the time, especially extremities. Food never makes me feel warmer.
Hair and eyebrows are thinning in a diffuse pattern.
Underarm temps and pulse are low at 35.8 c / 52 bpm am; 36.6 c / 65 BPM pm
Absent libido and erectile dysfunction.
Regular palpitations, pounding heart and arrhythmia.
Cognitive impairment and memory issues.
Bowel issues w/ bloating, gas and loose stool everyday.
Fatigue and low energy.
Lost all exercise tolerance and endurance - even mild exertion makes me nauseous and causes rapid lactate buildup.
Blood glucose levels are sometimes in pre-diabetes territory two hours after meals high in starch.
Physical anxiety symptoms that suggest chronically elevated adrenaline.
Depressive tenancies.
Rapid tooth decay dispute eating sugary / acidic foods with a straw, and brushing 3 x a day.
Sagging, wrinkled and aging skin.
Slow healing cuts that always scar.
Dry, flaking skin over entire body

Quite the list, I know. Feels like my body is decaying in every department.
For context, I'm 22 y/o, 5'10 and 170 lbs.
History of intense caloric restriction, paleo and fasting; have been eating 3k calories, high carb, high protein, no pufa for over a year with no improvement.
Was on T injections for three years 18-21, but have been off for over a year. Test levels are same now as they were pre-trt. Was mislead by incompetent doctors and trt forums thinking t was the answer, but it made things worse. I know now that my low t is a symptom of, not the cause of my issues.

Tough. I'm sorry to hear that.

What I have been recently doing has been sitting in my bathroom naked under a 2000W heatlamp, while doing hypoventilation exercises. I just use timer on my cell phone and take on breath every 10 seconds, but you can do 5 or 15, or use another method. I found this helpful, because raising my CO2 levels would crash my body temp. With this i managed to normalize CO2 and temps way better than any other method.

Be careful though. This could be dangerous so stop if it gets to be too much. Just an idea, because you seem to have issue with both body temp and CO2. If you can get Progest-E, do so.

 

[Hans]

Feel very cold all the time, especially extremities. Food never makes me feel warmer.
Hair and eyebrows are thinning in a diffuse pattern.
Underarm temps and pulse are low at 35.8 c / 52 bpm am; 36.6 c / 65 BPM pm
Absent libido and erectile dysfunction.
Regular palpitations, pounding heart and arrhythmia.
Cognitive impairment and memory issues.
Bowel issues w/ bloating, gas and loose stool everyday.
Fatigue and low energy.
Lost all exercise tolerance and endurance - even mild exertion makes me nauseous and causes rapid lactate buildup.
Blood glucose levels are sometimes in pre-diabetes territory two hours after meals high in starch.
Physical anxiety symptoms that suggest chronically elevated adrenaline.
Depressive tenancies.
Rapid tooth decay dispute eating sugary / acidic foods with a straw, and brushing 3 x a day.
Sagging, wrinkled and aging skin.
Slow healing cuts that always scar.
Dry, flaking skin over entire body

Quite the list, I know. Feels like my body is decaying in every department.
For context, I'm 22 y/o, 5'10 and 170 lbs.
History of intense caloric restriction, paleo and fasting; have been eating 3k calories, high carb, high protein, no pufa for over a year with no improvement.
Was on T injections for three years 18-21, but have been off for over a year. Test levels are same now as they were pre-trt. Was mislead by incompetent doctors and trt forums thinking t was the answer, but it made things worse. I know now that my low t is a symptom of, not the cause of my issues.

What supplements/hormones have you tried before?

 

[Broco6679]

Hormones:
Testosterone and HCG over three years, using various different injection frequencies, doses, and delivery methods to no avail.
Pregnenolone at various doses - always gives me varicose veins
1/4 grain thyroid-s for a few days. This started to make me feel slightly warmer, but on day four I began to experience vertigo, intracranial pressure and migraines, so I stopped. This was two weeks ago, since which I have started to develop various ms-like symptoms including pins and needles in extremities, full body weakness, nausea and pressure behind the eyes.

Supplements:
Aspirin
Niacinamide
Magnesium
B-complex
D/K2

I have some Progesterone and DHEA on the way to see if that will help things at all.

 

[Broco6679]

Tough. I'm sorry to hear that.

What I have been recently doing has been sitting in my bathroom naked under a 2000W heatlamp, while doing hypoventilation exercises. I just use timer on my cell phone and take on breath every 10 seconds, but you can do 5 or 15, or use another method. I found this helpful, because raising my CO2 levels would crash my body temp. With this i managed to normalize CO2 and temps way better than any other method.

Be careful though. This could be dangerous so stop if it gets to be too much. Just an idea, because you seem to have issue with both body temp and CO2. If you can get Progest-E, do so.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have some progesterone on the way, so I[ll see how it goes.

 

[redsun]

Feel very cold all the time, especially extremities. Food never makes me feel warmer.
Hair and eyebrows are thinning in a diffuse pattern.
Underarm temps and pulse are low at 35.8 c / 52 bpm am; 36.6 c / 65 BPM pm
Absent libido and erectile dysfunction.
Regular palpitations, pounding heart and arrhythmia.
Cognitive impairment and memory issues.
Bowel issues w/ bloating, gas and loose stool everyday.
Fatigue and low energy.
Lost all exercise tolerance and endurance - even mild exertion makes me nauseous and causes rapid lactate buildup.
Blood glucose levels are sometimes in pre-diabetes territory two hours after meals high in starch.
Physical anxiety symptoms that suggest chronically elevated adrenaline.
Depressive tenancies.
Rapid tooth decay dispute eating sugary / acidic foods with a straw, and brushing 3 x a day.
Sagging, wrinkled and aging skin.
Slow healing cuts that always scar.
Dry, flaking skin over entire body

Quite the list, I know. Feels like my body is decaying in every department.
For context, I'm 22 y/o, 5'10 and 170 lbs.
History of intense caloric restriction, paleo and fasting; have been eating 3k calories, high carb, high protein, no pufa for over a year with no improvement.
Was on T injections for three years 18-21, but have been off for over a year. Test levels are same now as they were pre-trt. Was mislead by incompetent doctors and trt forums thinking t was the answer, but it made things worse. I know now that my low t is a symptom of, not the cause of my issues.

You have all these symptoms but never got iron tests? Most of these symptoms match strongly. Perhaps hans has other inputs on what it can be but that's what I see. It would make a lot more sense if you did tests for iron but I see you have not.

 

[Broco6679]

You have all these symptoms but never got iron tests? Most of these symptoms match strongly. Perhaps hans has other inputs on what it can be but that's what I see. It would make a lot more sense if you did tests for iron but I see you have not.

Iron 15.69 umol/L (Range: 5.8 - 34.5)
TIBC 53.99 umol/L (Range: 45 - 72)
Transferrin Saturation 29.06 % (Range: 20 - 50)
Ferritin 91.8 ug/L (Range: 30 - 400)

I didn't include them because Hans didn't ask.

 

[Hans]

Hormones:
Testosterone and HCG over three years, using various different injection frequencies, doses, and delivery methods to no avail.
Pregnenolone at various doses - always gives me varicose veins
1/4 grain thyroid-s for a few days. This started to make me feel slightly warmer, but on day four I began to experience vertigo, intracranial pressure and migraines, so I stopped. This was two weeks ago, since which I have started to develop various ms-like symptoms including pins and needles in extremities, full body weakness, nausea and pressure behind the eyes.

Supplements:
Aspirin
Niacinamide
Magnesium
B-complex
D/K2

I have some Progesterone and DHEA on the way to see if that will help things at all.

It could be an accumulation of intracellular estrogen and cortisol, with elevated catecholamines (this is where a adrenaline and noradrenaline measure would be helpful), which are inhibiting thyroid function. The progesterone DHEA combo should be a good experiment. The progesterone might also cause varicose veins if intracellular estrogen is high. Using progesterone can significantly increase blood estrogen as it lowers tissue estrogen, but after a week or two, estrogen should return to normal. But this depends on the dose of progesterone you're going to use.
I'd use high doses like 100-150mg for about 7-10 days and then reduce to 15-20mg daily from there. Maybe you can add in calcium-D-glucarate to increase estrogen detoxification during the time progesterone knocks a lot of estrogen out of the tissue.

Seem like you've done a lot of tests. What other tests have you also done that you haven't mentioned already?

 

[Yggr]

Quick one Hans, why would progeserone cause varicose veins? Surely it would resolve them by moving the estrogen out?

 

[Hans]

Quick one Hans, why would progeserone cause varicose veins? Surely it would resolve them by moving the estrogen out?

He used pregnenolone and got varicose veins every time, which makes me think it wasn't something permanent, just temporary as it went away when he stopped. Estrogen weakens the vascular system and can cause that and if estrogen is elevated for weeks and months on end, it causes more permanent varicose and spider veins.
So when the estrogen is lowered by the progesterone, the varicose veins should then also go away if it was just a temporary thing.
But progesterone might "cause" varicose veins if the estrogen isn't detoxed effectively as well.

 

[Yggr]

Thank you for the reply, I understand nowwhat you mean. I suppose Vitamin E would be handy in combination to block estrogen receptor effects whilst eliminating estrogen with other modalities.

 

[Hans]

Thank you for the reply, I understand nowwhat you mean. I suppose Vitamin E would be handy in combination to block estrogen receptor effects whilst eliminating estrogen with other modalities.

Vitamin E can go synergistically with progesterone yes.

 

[Broco6679]

Would you recommend blood or urine catecholamine tests?

Intracellular estrogen excess seems likely given I had undetectable prog and above range estradiol for about three years on T. Regarding cortisol, is it possible to accumulate in the tissue whilst blood tests show low, similar to estrogen?

The varicose veins from preg never went away. Each time I use it my veins become more swollen and twisted, and as soon I stop, the veins stop progressing, but the damage doesn't reverse. It's a massive shame because it almost instantly corrected the cognitive impairment and memory issues that slowly developed over my years with a suppressed HPTA.

I had a progesterone blood test done pre and during oral preg supplementation to investigate whether the varicose veins were prog related, but my prog levels did not budge at all. Both came back at @ 0.40 nmol/L (range: 0.7 - 4.2). My further cognitive decline over the last few months has coincided with my prog dropping to < 0.3 nmol/L on the lab tests, so potentially undetectable.

Do you think the high dose prog use would make the varicose veins worse in the beginning? I can't lie, it's my biggest concern with taking it, especially considering I'm extremely hypo (at least symptomatically, even if the bloods don't reflect this). If yes, would starting with a small dose and slowly raising it over time to avoid flooding the system with e2 it cannot clear be more effective?

My chronic digestive issues make me think bacterial infection from prolonged hypometabolism is part of the issue. I might try some antibiotics, but I need to do more research on Flucloxacillin which is the only option I have at the moment. I had a lot of bowel issues today, and shortly afterwards I started to feel quite weak / shaky and had to lie down - is this a symptom of endotoxin?

Here are my other tests:

Saliva Cortisol:
Cortisol - Waking: 9.170 nmol/L (Range: 6 - 21)
Cortisol - 12:00: 1.980 nmol/L (Range: 1.5 - 7.6)
Cortisol - 16:00: <1.5 nmol/L (Range: 0 - 5.5)
Cortisol - Before Bed: <1.5 nmol/L (Range: 0 - 2)

Ceruloplasmin: 0.24 g/L (Range: 0.15 - 0.3)

Bilirubin 6.8 umol/L (Range: < 24)
ALP 100 IU/L (Range: < 130)
ALT 11.4 IU/L (Range: < 50)
GGT 27 IU/L (Range: 10 - 71)

Total Protein 74.4 g/L (Range: 60 - 80)
Albumin 38.8 g/L (Range: 35 - 50)
Globulin X 35.6 g/L (Range: 19 - 35)

CRP HS X 11.5 mg/L (Range: < 5)
Retested again two weeks later - came back at < 5, but no exact number given.

Magnesium - Serum 0.96 mmol/L (Range: 0.7 - 1)
Zinc - Serum 11.41 umol/L (Range: 11.1 - 19.5)
Folate - Serum 6.69 ug/L (Range: > 3.89)
Vitamin B12 - Active >150 pmol/L (Range: > 37.5)

Thanks again man, much appreciated.

 

[Hans]

Would you recommend blood or urine catecholamine tests?

Blood is best.

Regarding cortisol, is it possible to accumulate in the tissue whilst blood tests show low, similar to estrogen?

Yes it's possible.

The varicose veins from preg never went away. Each time I use it my veins become more swollen and twisted, and as soon I stop, the veins stop progressing, but the damage doesn't reverse. It's a massive shame because it almost instantly corrected the cognitive impairment and memory issues that slowly developed over my years with a suppressed HPTA.

I had a progesterone blood test done pre and during oral preg supplementation to investigate whether the varicose veins were prog related, but my prog levels did not budge at all. Both came back at @ 0.40 nmol/L (range: 0.7 - 4.2). My further cognitive decline over the last few months has coincided with my prog dropping to < 0.3 nmol/L on the lab tests, so potentially undetectable.

Have you tested cortisol as well pre and post pregnenolone? Nitric oxide can also cause vascular weakness. Also angiotensin, vasopressin and parathyroid.

Do you think the high dose prog use would make the varicose veins worse in the beginning? I can't lie, it's my biggest concern with taking it, especially considering I'm extremely hypo (at least symptomatically, even if the bloods don't reflect this). If yes, would starting with a small dose and slowly raising it over time to avoid flooding the system with e2 it cannot clear be more effective?

Yes, that seems like a good strategy.

My chronic digestive issues make me think bacterial infection from prolonged hypometabolism is part of the issue. I might try some antibiotics, but I need to do more research on Flucloxacillin which is the only option I have at the moment. I had a lot of bowel issues today, and shortly afterwards I started to feel quite weak / shaky and had to lie down - is this a symptom of endotoxin?

Could be yes, and low blood sugar with an increase in adrenaline to compensate. If neural sympathetic activation is low (which is necessary to prevent hypoglycemia), then adrenaline needs to step in to raise blood sugar, when then causes the stress reaction.

What have you tried for your gut before? This is probably the best place to start.