"In Deficiency Of Vitamin E, The Vitamin A Reserves Of The Liver May Be Much Reduced"

Amazoniac

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Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two.
About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.


The effect of vitamin E deficiency on the vitamin A reserves of the rat
Diet:
"light white casein 25%, cane sugar 50 %, lard 10%, salt mixture 5%, dried yeast 10%"
"The vitamin A intake as halibut liver oil was [..] about 1000 i.U. per week."​

Exp 1. The effect of wheat germ oil concentrate on vitamin A reserves.
"The positive control animals received 50 mg. of wheat germ oil concentrate daily and were in good health."
"The vitamin A reserves of the rats given vitamin E were invariably much higher than those of the rats deficient in vitamin E. The positive control group had a mean total vitamin A reserve more than twice as great as that of the deficient group. The reserve per g. of liver for the control group was almost twice as much as the corresponding value for the deficient group."
burtlan explained to me that increasing the amount of a nutrient per gram of tissue means that it's not just an effect of overall growth of an organ as a result of being well-nourished, it's actually affecting the content of a nutrient significantly even if the total weight remained more or less the same.​

Exp 2. More or less the same thing as Exp 1 but with the torture starting earlier in their life and with two more groups for low casein (3%) (calories compensated by sugar).
"The mean vitamin A reserves, both total and per g., were about 10 times greater in the groups given vitamin E concentrate than in the deficient groups. Casein deficiency had a relatively small effect of doubtful significance."​

Exp 3. More or less the same as (2) but from lactation to adulthood their diets also had minimal vitamin A and were starchier and fattier diets (50% cane sugar and 10% lard for 50% rice starch and 20% lard) and had more dried yeast (10% for 15%). As the exp started, they reintroduced the standard diet and supplements.
"The vitamin A reserves were again much lower in the deficient groups than in those given vitamin E. The casein allowance had no effect on the vitamin A reserves in the groups deficient in vitamin E."​

Exp 4. More or less the same as (3) but with vitamin A during the first phase. Now peanut oil was given plain or mixed with jyb-tocopherol in various amounts (3, 1, 0.3, 0.1 mg) to compare with wheat germ oil.
"The uteri of rats in the groups given 3 and 1 mg. of tocopherol or 50 mg. of wheat germ oil concentrate weekly were normal in colour. The uteri, of rats given 0.3 and 0.1 mg of tocopherol or plain arachis oil were brown, and the vitamin A reserves for these groups were only 1/4 to 1/2 of those found in the groups receiving adequate allowances of vitamin E."​

Exp 5. The effect of tocopherol on the conversion of carotene into vitamin A.
I only skimmed this part. :ss

Exp 6. The storage of vitamin A in rats after the curing of prolonged avitaminosis-E.
The rats were kept on the standard (vit E-deficient) diet for a year and were given wheat germ oil on the following year.
"It appears very probable, however, that treatment with wheat germ restored to normal the power of the liver to store vitamin A. It has been shown in a previous paper [Moore & Rajagopal, 1940] that even the inclusion of 60% of wheat germ in a diet otherwise free from vitamin A does not allow the accumulation of measurable stores of vitamin A in the liver."​
In all the above experiments in which halibut liver oil was given the vitamin A reserves were always much lower in rats deprived of vitamin E than in animals subjected to exactly the same treatment except for the addition of vitamin E.
In the groups given vitamin E the rate of storage of 40-50% points to high efficiency, particularly in view of the prolonged periods during which the earlier doses of vitamin A must have been kept in the livers before they were examined.
it was found that deficiency of protein caused at the most only a slight depression of the vitamin A reserves
Dann & Moore [1931] failed to detect any marked depression of the vitamin A reserves in rats kept for many weeks on diets deficient in the vitamin B complex. In hens deficient in vitamin K Tomaszewski & Engel [1939] found that neither the vitamin A nor vitamin C reserves were lowered. On the other hand, it is obvious that vitamin E deficiency is by no means unique in depressing the vitamin A reserves. Goerner [1937] has shown that the injection of carcinogenic agents into rats may cause marked reduction in the vitamin A reserves of the liver.

--
Out of curiosity:
Test Data - Green Pasture (suggested serving size)
Currently unavailable since sep/15. :ss
 
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Amazoniac

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How do you avoid vit.E deficiency from food?
It's only tricky if you need more than what's necessary to protect your dietary fats, because foods also don't contain more than what's required to protect their fragile lipids, and so increasing vit E through those foods means ingesting more of the undesired fats. This probably means that you don't need to worry if your needs aren't greater than that. On the other hand, if you need more, temporary or occasional supplementation might be desirable. It's better absorbed from fatty meals, so if your fat intake isn't much, perhaps topical use can be helpful.
And just like Ray commented, if you increase your vitamin A and K significantly, then you need to increase a bit of vit E along.

Note: supplementation in general is a disobedience towards pboy's work.
 

Amazoniac

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Through foods, there are ones that have plenty of the various carotenoids, and some that have mostly lycopene, most of them having a bit of vit E as protection. As far as I know, since it can't accumulate in the body such as other carotenoids, it's an alternative..
 

Agent207

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From the foods I use to eat containing vit.E are avocado and asparagus.

k2 displaces vit.E?
 

REOSIRENS

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Brain diseases like Parkinson's and Dementia are related to brain pre frontal cortex decrease of vitamin A and vitamin E. ... Showing that both these two vitamins need each other to work properly
 

Pointless

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So vitamin E is needed when there is an excessive need for vitamin A. Thanks this is helpful.
 

JackHanma

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So is palm oil the only reliable source?
Vitamin e is the only nutrient that seems difficult to get by food, unless you have lots of pufa.
Does grass-fed butter have high amounts of e?

I've had negatives with supplementation; it does show pro-testosterone anti-prolactin/estrogen benefits, but it showed many toxicities, even just taken once a week. Really bad on the stomach, no amount of k2 was able to counter it so far.

The one I have is d-alpha tocopheryl acetate 268 mg at 400 iu taken from a natural source.
 

Travis

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In all the above experiments in which halibut liver oil was given the vitamin A reserves were always much lower in rats deprived of vitamin E than in animals subjected to exactly the same treatment except for the addition of vitamin E.

I wonder if Ray Peat considered that vitamin E could be just displacing vitamin A from the tissues, thereby raising the blood concentration of vitamin A?

This is how similar they are:
gamma.png

Vitamin E is thought to hang-out on the cell's interface, the "lipid bilayer", with it's hydrophilic head pointed outside of the cell and the tail buried inside the lipid layer.

This protects the cell membrane from lipid peroxidation. The head is able to safely intercept and store stray unpaired free-radical electrons.

Above is shown α-tocopherol. Gamma-tocopherol the most abundant in food and has a slightly different head that is able to safely intercept reactive nitrogen species! Alpha-tocopherol does not have this function! It has been demonstrated that α-tocopherol displaces γ-tocopherol from the cell membrane, perhaps explaining why supplemental vitamin D does not protect against cancer in prospective studies as much as people thought it should.

You can buy mixed tocopherols, with all four vitamin E species. This may be more protective than simply swallowing α-tocopherol.

The alpha form was given the most attention because it was found to score the highest in a rat fertility assay back in The Day.
 
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JackHanma

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I wonder if Ray Peat considered that vitamin E could be just displacing vitamin A from the tissues, thereby raising the blood concentration of vitamin A?

This is how similar they are:
View attachment 5766

Vitamin E is thought to hang-out on the cell's interface, the "lipid bilayer", with it's hydrophilic head pointed outside of the cell and the tail buried inside the lipid layer.

This protects the cell membrane from lipid peroxidation. The head is able to safely intercept and store stray unpaired free-radical electrons.

Above is shown α-tocopherol. Gamma-tocopherol the most abundant in food and has a slightly different head that is able to safely intercept reactive nitrogen species! Alpha-tocopherol does not have this function! It has been demonstrated that α-tocopherol displaces γ-tocopherol from the cell membrane, perhaps explaining why supplemental vitamin D does not protect against cancer in prospective studies as much as people thought it should.

You can buy mixed tocopherols, with all four vitamin E species. This may be more protective than simply swallowing α-tocopherol.

The alpha form was given the most attention because it was found to score the highest in a rat fertility assay back in The Day.
Very interesting; might just try a mixed one to see what happens.

The other thread on vitamin c and aspirin prompted me to find this:
Nickel and Cobalt Health Effects, Benefits, Allergies, Safety Issues

"
An increasing number of studies have come to the conclusion that excessive intake of Vitamin E has the
potential to increase the risk for heart disease rather than having a preventive effect, which is not only
a concern for overdosing on Vitamin E, but other Vitamins and minerals as well. While an optimal intake of
any nutrient will provide optimal benefits, going beyond this ideal amount may not only reduce those benefits
again, but potentially lead to adverse consequences. Most patients I have tested over the years had - with
few exceptions - much greater requirements for Vitamin C than for Vitamin E, so an excessive intake of
Vitamin E could in those individuals easily worsen any low Vitamin C-related medical problems, which include
cardiovascular disease."

So based on this vitamin c must be increased in correlation to vitamin e. Interestingly just like aspirin causes ulcers/bleeding for many; vitamin e often does the same; so besides k2, vitamin c should be taken too.
 
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