In A Low Fat Diet (<7%), Would Maintenance Create Fat Through De Novo Lipogenesis ?

[Hans]

I don't have too bad digestion and I train extremely hard (though I give myself a lot of recovery time).

Ok. If your body is good at making its own fat and cholesterol then I think a low fat approach can work.

 

[Such_Umami]

What bodyfat percentage do you think it would go down to if I just went maintenance as an athlete?

 

[Zigzag]

What are the general signs of comprimised gut health? Bloating, gas what else?

 

[baccheion]

Eating the right amount of protein will increase or maintain muscle mass, but it will be a minor increase in the absence of weight training.
If the carbs you're going to eat are going to irritate your gut or cause gut issues then the carbs/inflammation might contribute to insulin resistance and fat gain even if fat intake is low.

I think this is why most people benefit from a low carb diet, because they eliminate most if not all food that cause a negative reaction and this lowers inflammation and speeds up fat loss.

So even if you eat carbs, your cortisol might be higher than on a low carb diet if the carbs you're eating is causing you gut inflammation.

Hmm..

Adding a 250-calorie surplus was shown to increase mass in one study. 3.5 lbs in 7 weeks. Sedentary. Those that created surplus via added unsaturated fats had a 50:50 ratio of lean mass to fat mass gain. 20:80 for those using saturated fats.

That is, adding the surplus is enough to increase lean mass. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass, body fat under 15%, and a 250-calorie surplus. You can bulk up (for a while; aka, fill out) while just sitting around.

Weight lifters gained 4 lbs of lean mass in 10 weeks. Said another way, 0.4 lbs/week. One graphic (with arbitrary units) showed saturation among sedentary individuals at 2 units of protein. 3 units for endurance trainers. 4.2 units for lifters. By inference, 0.4 lbs/week roughly becomes 0.2 lbs/week when sedentary. Assuming a 50:50 ratio, a 200-calorie surplus is then implied.

 

[Hans]

What bodyfat percentage do you think it would go down to if I just went maintenance as an athlete?

I can't know for sure. Maybe you'll stay the same maybe you'll drop some. Best way to find out is to try it.

 

[Hans]

What are the general signs of comprimised gut health? Bloating, gas what else?

Fatigue, brain fog, irritability, feeling unsociable and mean, sinus congestion, ringing in the ears, water retention, blurry vision, skin breakouts, etc.

 

[Hans]

Hmm..

Adding a 250-calorie surplus was shown to increase mass in one study. 3.5 lbs in 7 weeks. Sedentary. Those that created surplus via added unsaturated fats had a 50:50 ratio of lean mass to fat mass gain. 20:80 for those using saturated fats.

That is, adding the surplus is enough to increase lean mass. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass, body fat under 15%, and a 250-calorie surplus. You can bulk up (for a while; aka, fill out) while just sitting around.

Weight lifters gained 4 lbs of lean mass in 10 weeks. Said another way, 0.4 lbs/week. One graphic (with arbitrary units) showed saturation among sedentary individuals at 2 units of protein. 3 units for endurance trainers. 4.2 units for lifters. By inference, 0.4 lbs/week roughly becomes 0.2 lbs/week when sedentary. Assuming a 50:50 ratio, a 200-calorie surplus is then implied.

You'll hit a cap real fast for muscle mass gained if you only rely on a surplus without stimulus. One cannot build a lot of muscle without proper stimulation.
Obese people actually have a fair amount of muscle mass due to having to move all that weight. But then again it comes down to the stimulus.

 

[Such_Umami]

I can't know for sure. Maybe you'll stay the same maybe you'll drop some. Best way to find out is to try it.

Yeah, I'll keep you posted.

 

[baccheion]

You'll hit a cap real fast for muscle mass gained if you only rely on a surplus without stimulus. One cannot build a lot of muscle without proper stimulation.
Obese people actually have a fair amount of muscle mass due to having to move all that weight. But then again it comes down to the stimulus.

What makes you say that? I'd add calisthenics (with body suits, bands, free weights, etc), as they can be done anywhere.

I assume there'd eventually be a cap, just not at a low enough number to not end up filled out. Normalizing hormones, diet, sleep, nutrient levels, etc would further help by pushing testosterone and androgens to a good range.

I even remember seeing comments on this site about filling out slowly overtime after consuming a lot of milk. Perhaps they were also going to the gym, though.

There are other tricks to delay stalling. 0.75 g/lb protein for 2 days, 1g/lb for 2 days, 1.25 g/lb for 2 days, and protein fasting on the 7th day. The fast is said to resensitize the body's response to protein and the bumps mimic progressive overload. Hahaha!

 

[Hans]

What makes you say that? I'd add calisthenics (with body suits, bands, free weights, etc), as they can be done anywhere.

I assume there'd eventually be a cap, just not at a low enough number to not end up filled out. Normalizing hormones, diet, sleep, nutrient levels, etc would further help by pushing testosterone and androgens to a good range.

I even remember seeing comments on this site about filling out slowly overtime after consuming a lot of milk. Perhaps they were also going to the gym, though.

There are other tricks to delay stalling. 0.75 g/lb protein for 2 days, 1g/lb for 2 days, 1.25 g/lb for 2 days, and protein fasting on the 7th day. The fast is said to resensitize the body's response to protein and the bumps mimic progressive overload. Hahaha!

What I'm trying to say is that one cannot build a lot of muscle while being sedentary. Yes some people that are in a surplus eating lots of protein will have a lot more muscle than the calorie deficit low protein guy, but there is a cap. You might look slightly beefy but not swole, depending on androgens and general metabolism ofc.

If you add in weights/calisthenics or any exercise/movement that stimulates the muscle constructively will cause it to grow/adapt.

Good nutrition is the base, but proper training is the only thing that can make you swole.

 

[tara]

I read that DNL results in synthesis of only about 10 grams fat.

I don't know the answer to your questions.
But interested in this figure. Does it seem small to you?
Was it per day? (~4kg/yr?) Per meal? (~1kg+/month?)

Looks like some of the other quotes say it can be higher in some circumstances.

A kg a month over can have quite an effect after a year or two if a significant portion is incorporated into tissue. I'm not saying it's bad - sometimes may be helpful. I've just been puzzled over the years about people talking about this kind of quantity as though it's trivial.

 

[baccheion]

I don't know the answer to your questions.
But interested in this figure. Does it seem small to you?
Was it per day? (~4kg/yr?) Per meal? (~1kg+/month?)

Looks like some of the other quotes say it can be higher in some circumstances.

A kg a month over can have quite an effect after a year or two if a significant portion is incorporated into tissue. I'm not saying it's bad - sometimes may be helpful. I've just been puzzled over the years about people talking about this kind of quantity as though it's trivial.

10 g/day.

 

[tara]

10 g/day.

Do you think of this as insignificant?

 

[baccheion]

Do you think of this as insignificant?

RDA for fat is 65 grams.

 

[Such_Umami]

Hans,

Let's say I'm eatin a 3,100 caloric diet and losing weight because of low fat. I am eating about 650g of carbs/per day. Is this enough to be completely sure that my muscle and liver glycogen are topped up as much as possible? (assuming I can top them up due to insulin sensitivity).

It's just that I'd like to lose a bit of weight but I don't want to deplete any glycogen stores. I want maximum glycogen stores possible.

 

[Hans]

Hans,

Let's say I'm eatin a 3,100 caloric diet and losing weight because of low fat. I am eating about 650g of carbs/per day. Is this enough to be completely sure that my muscle and liver glycogen are topped up as much as possible? (assuming I can top them up due to insulin sensitivity).

It's just that I'd like to lose a bit of weight but I don't want to deplete any glycogen stores. I want maximum glycogen stores possible.

Yes 650g should be more than enough. Your liver can store 100-200g and your muscles 300-600g depending on muscle mass.
If you're not training then your body is not using the muscle glycogen quickly at all, plus it's difficult to deplete muscle glycogen with a workout. So for example, let's say your muscle glycogen is topped off from the previous day, theoretically you only need 100-200g carbs to fill up liver glycogen to support brain function.