Implementing Low-fat Diet And Needing Advice

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DanielleB

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Liver biopsy is how its found out for certain. Low energy, hypoglycemia, liver and kidney problems/failure eventually. If its completely absent fructose ingestion leads to death, usually infants completely lacking aldolase b will die after its first time consuming fructose. This condition is very rare, and likely not to concern you.

Good to know, thank you for sharing. I'm sorry that this has happened to you, is there any way to "fix" the deficiency as it sounds like it's a genetic abnormality? What is your diet like since finding this out?
 
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tca300

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Good to know, thank you for sharing. I'm sorry that this has happened to you, is there any way to "fix" the deficiency as it sounds like it's a genetic abnormality? What is your diet like since finding this out?
Inherited gene abnormality, no fixing it. Lots of milk, small abounts of liver, and shellfish a few times per month.
 
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DanielleB

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Inherited gene abnormality, no fixing it. Lots of milk, small abounts of liver, and shellfish a few times per month.

Well I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better and that your diet is working well for you!:thumbsup::shame:
 

jitsmonkey

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Can you also share if you counted calories at this time or just at according to hunger?

You absolutely should count calories in an effort to have it as a data point.
Its a critical datapoint relative to your other metrics.
At some point you'll be skilled enough you won't need to count but absolutely count.
The purpose of counting is understanding how much is enough and how much is too much
without it as a data point its just a guess which makes decision making much more random and ineffective

Also for all of the henny penny sky is falling VLF can be dangerous nonsense.
A couple higher fat meals a week and or some daily coconut oil will mitigate any potential issues.
I continue to eat VLF 3-4 consecutive days at a time (more often 3) and on the following day
I plan an enjoyable meal out with my family and we eat like its the last supper (within reason lol)
and supplement my fat soluble vitamins as well. I don't purposely eat a lot of fat but invariably eating out there will be pufa and there will be more fat than I normally eat.
this meal a) tastes better on vlf just because of the contrase
b) digests better because the rest of the week I'm not irritating my gut
c) provides a nice break from what can be somewhat monotonous and anti-social on vlf

I am not saying this is right for you
However for those who feel good on lower fat this practice makes it easier and it does function as a stopgap
to ensure you're not running into any sort of "fat deficiency" if you're concerned about that kind of thing.
For me personally 40 years of varied experimentation says vlf is the least stressful and most productive diet for me.
I'm sure others would benefit as well but certainly not all others. Its worth the experiment.
 
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DanielleB

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You absolutely should count calories in an effort to have it as a data point.
Its a critical datapoint relative to your other metrics.
At some point you'll be skilled enough you won't need to count but absolutely count.
The purpose of counting is understanding how much is enough and how much is too much
without it as a data point its just a guess which makes decision making much more random and ineffective

Also for all of the henny penny sky is falling VLF can be dangerous nonsense.
A couple higher fat meals a week and or some daily coconut oil will mitigate any potential issues.
I continue to eat VLF 3-4 consecutive days at a time (more often 3) and on the following day
I plan an enjoyable meal out with my family and we eat like its the last supper (within reason lol)
and supplement my fat soluble vitamins as well. I don't purposely eat a lot of fat but invariably eating out there will be pufa and there will be more fat than I normally eat.
this meal a) tastes better on vlf just because of the contrase
b) digests better because the rest of the week I'm not irritating my gut
c) provides a nice break from what can be somewhat monotonous and anti-social on vlf

I am not saying this is right for you
However for those who feel good on lower fat this practice makes it easier and it does function as a stopgap
to ensure you're not running into any sort of "fat deficiency" if you're concerned about that kind of thing.
For me personally 40 years of varied experimentation says vlf is the least stressful and most productive diet for me.
I'm sure others would benefit as well but certainly not all others. Its worth the experiment.

I have been continuing to count and log calories on the daily, I was just wondering if the other user was counting his calories or just eating to satiety. From a few of the other threads I have read on VLF, users like Zachs reported not counting his calories at all and just eating alot of fruit and VLF and still lost a lot of weight. What I gathered is that one might actually need more calories from carbs to make up for the very low fat intake to keep liver glycogen stores full and Zachs theorized that going over one's TDEE might actually be optimal to achieve this.

I just know that with myself, I tend to get obsessive and OCD about counting calories and that can sometimes initiate a stress response as opposed to just eating to satiety as I find myself trying to stick to a certain calorie intake whether I am hungry or not and I've read that if one eats when they aren't actually hungry, that can initiate a stress response as well so it's all just kind of confusing to me at this point....
 
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DanielleB

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You absolutely should count calories in an effort to have it as a data point.
Its a critical datapoint relative to your other metrics.
At some point you'll be skilled enough you won't need to count but absolutely count.
The purpose of counting is understanding how much is enough and how much is too much
without it as a data point its just a guess which makes decision making much more random and ineffective

Also for all of the henny penny sky is falling VLF can be dangerous nonsense.
A couple higher fat meals a week and or some daily coconut oil will mitigate any potential issues.
I continue to eat VLF 3-4 consecutive days at a time (more often 3) and on the following day
I plan an enjoyable meal out with my family and we eat like its the last supper (within reason lol)
and supplement my fat soluble vitamins as well. I don't purposely eat a lot of fat but invariably eating out there will be pufa and there will be more fat than I normally eat.
this meal a) tastes better on vlf just because of the contrase
b) digests better because the rest of the week I'm not irritating my gut
c) provides a nice break from what can be somewhat monotonous and anti-social on vlf

I am not saying this is right for you
However for those who feel good on lower fat this practice makes it easier and it does function as a stopgap
to ensure you're not running into any sort of "fat deficiency" if you're concerned about that kind of thing.
For me personally 40 years of varied experimentation says vlf is the least stressful and most productive diet for me.
I'm sure others would benefit as well but certainly not all others. Its worth the experiment.


The most confusing thing for me is understanding when to lower or raise the calorie intake if I am maintaining my weight on my current calories. And how long would I wait on a set caloric intake to see what is happening with my weight to determine if I need to raise or lower it?
 

tara

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I guess I'm confused as to how much calories I actually need because if I'm working towards building metabolism, eating more calories will help but it seems that this will also increase the likelihood of weight gain? I am so confused! lol
If you gain weight on 1800 cals, I think that would indicate a low metabolism.
Peat has said that low fat stimulates the metabolism and the thyroid
Maybe it can under some conditions, but chronic low calories can have the opposite effect in some situations/people too.
No magic. You do NOT EVER have to drink Milk or OJ you just have to choose foods that satisfy your nutritional requirements.
+1
So I did some research on the progesterone and it seems like it's a bit of gamble with what results I might get. Some users report negative side effects/symptoms after taking it.....namely, gaining weight. Did you have any negative side effects from usage?
Everything you try on advice or copying someone else is a gamble. :) There is nothing that anyone else has done that is guaranteed to work the same for you. I'd recommend reading Peat's articles on estrogen and progesterone, and then if it makes sense to you once you have more understanding of it, you can try it and see whether it seems helpful.
There is a page with a possible set of recommendations for how to use the progest-E formulation.
I would be cautious about trying it while forcing a calorie deficit - the two might work against each other.
I do seem to have a "problem" with eating sugar/carbs in that I fall asleep after eating around 50 gr. I get very groggy and have to take a nap. This can happen right after I get up if it is breakfast, or right up to around 6 pm. After that time I can eat carbs and be fine. But by then I have napped 2 or so hours and feel very groggy all day. This is the main reason I have been low carb for years.
Do you have any insights into why that may be and can you allay my fears that if I eat vlf that I will spend most of my day asleep?
How much good sleep do you usually get each night? Do you reliably sleep with your moth shut? What forms of carbs have given you that sleepy response - fruit, roots, grain, refined sugars, ... foods containing minerals and vitamins/personal allergens?
Possible ...
If you have been chronically stressed, then feeling sleepy after a nourishing meal may be a healthy response, meaning you just need a chance to rest and recover for a while? If so, I'd hope it would start to ease after you got some good rest. But maybe not get back to the wired stressed feeling you have been used to.
Or if it is a specific food you are allergic to, it could be something specific to avoid, not necessarily carbs in general?
Or if you are out of the habit, maybe start smaller for a more gradual transition?
Or could be missing some of the miconutrients needed to make good use of the carbs?
Or the combination of fat with carbs may be make the metabolism of carbs harder?

I think there may be no way to be know if and how you can make it work without experimenting.
Swinging quickly from HFLC to LFHC probably requires some adjustment if it's been a while. Might not be able to transition overnight.
 

walker_in_aus

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I counted calories and aimed for between 1900 and 2100, usually hit about 2000. Mild walking, sedentary job, I'm 5'11" and late 20s lady.
 
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@DanielleB
You should not take Niacinamide or Aspirin if you want to burn fat coz it inhibits release of stored fat. Instead increase your intake of Vitamin C and Catechins those will recycle vitamin E, like: cacao, berries, tea. This will inactivate / protect side effects of fatty acid releases in an adaptive manner. Vitamin E suppl. should be natural mixed tocopherols.
I would have intermittent states of lowered blood glucose so stored fat can be burned effectively. So don't eat / drink sugars all day, just after workouts or when craving.
And I would do less muscle training, but more walking for +20min. (40min back and forth) with taking warm baths will increase metabolism and fat loss.
Interesting that you only eat coconut oil and no stearic acid from milk fat that maybe could help in losing visceral adipose fat.

“When we eat more carbohydrate than can be oxidized, some of it will be turned into saturated fats and omega-9 fats, and these will support mitochondrial energy production. Carbohydrates in the diet also help to decrease the mobilization of fatty acids from storage; niacinamide and aspirin support that effect.” -Ray Peat

I don't see any fruit or veggies with high ORAC values or OPC oligomere proanthocyanidin? ..that's pretty bad for veins and connective tissue..

Therefore I would increase intake of Silica via Bamboo extract and Centella Asiatica extract standardized for Asiaticosides to support collagen synthesis.
 
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Wagner83

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Inherited gene abnormality, no fixing it. Lots of milk, small abounts of liver, and shellfish a few times per month.
Dietary and hormonal regulation of aldolase B gene expression.
"Thus, the in vivo hormonal control of liver aldolase B gene expression differs significantly from that of kidney and small intestine. In the liver, the mRNA induction requires the presence of dietary carbohydrates, of permissive hormones, and the cessation of glucagon release, while in the kidney, the induction of the mRNAs by fructose occurs regardless of the hormonal status of the animals. The hormonal control of aldolase B mRNA levels in the small intestine is intermediate."
 

tara

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You should not take Niacinamide or Aspirin if you want to burn fat coz it inhibits release of stored fat.
I'd expect large quantities to somewhat inhibit release of stored fat. But small quantities of niacinamide (eg 20-50mg per meal) might be useful. Certainly some of us have lost fat while eating B-vits including niacinamide.
 
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tca300

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Dietary and hormonal regulation of aldolase B gene expression.
"Thus, the in vivo hormonal control of liver aldolase B gene expression differs significantly from that of kidney and small intestine. In the liver, the mRNA induction requires the presence of dietary carbohydrates, of permissive hormones, and the cessation of glucagon release, while in the kidney, the induction of the mRNAs by fructose occurs regardless of the hormonal status of the animals. The hormonal control of aldolase B mRNA levels in the small intestine is intermediate."
Sure! But when the gene itself is mutated ( as in hereditary fructose intolerance ) the ability to process fructose is not related to hormonal or dietary factors. But I get your point, thanks for the insite!
 
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DanielleB

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@DanielleB
You should not take Niacinamide or Aspirin if you want to burn fat coz it inhibits release of stored fat. Instead increase your intake of Vitamin C and Catechins those will recycle vitamin E, like: cacao, berries, tea. This will inactivate / protect side effects of fatty acid releases in an adaptive manner. Vitamin E suppl. should be natural mixed tocopherols.
I would have intermittent states of lowered blood glucose so stored fat can be burned effectively. So don't eat / drink sugars all day, just after workouts or when craving.
And I would do less muscle training, but more walking for +20min. (40min back and forth) with taking warm baths will increase metabolism and fat loss.
Interesting that you only eat coconut oil and no stearic acid from milk fat that maybe could help in losing visceral adipose fat.



I don't see any fruit or veggies with high ORAC values or OPC oligomere proanthocyanidin? ..that's pretty bad for veins and connective tissue..

Therefore I would increase intake of Silica via Bamboo extract and Centella Asiatica extract standardized for Asiaticosides to support collagen synthesis.


Thanks for the info on the Niacinimide and Aspirin. I've only been taking aspirin 2-3 days out of the week and haven't noticed any effects from taking it yet. Do you have any studies or links to information that prove Niacinimide and Aspririn inhibit weight loss when Peat advocates for their use because they lower estrogen which causes weight gain when levels are too high?

What form of Vitamin C would you recommend? I'm drinking a liter of orange juice a day and my Vit C requirements are met on Cron-O-Meter...how much more Vit C would you suggest? Also, do most berries have catechins or are there only specific types.

Can you explain more what you mean in regards to the stearic acid from milk fat helping in the weight loss? Those who have tried the VLF diet in the past have had success from keeping fat as low as possible, hence the fat free milk....

Excuse my ignorance bu what are "ORAC values:" and "OPC Oligomere proanthocyanidin"?? Never heard of these before. What fruits and veggies have higher values of these components? Shouldn't collagen powder be adequate for connective tissue purposes?
 

MissRed

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...
How much good sleep do you usually get each night? Do you reliably sleep with your moth shut? What forms of carbs have given you that sleepy response - fruit, roots, grain, refined sugars, ... foods containing minerals and vitamins/personal allergens?
Possible ...
If you have been chronically stressed, then feeling sleepy after a nourishing meal may be a healthy response, meaning you just need a chance to rest and recover for a while? If so, I'd hope it would start to ease after you got some good rest. But maybe not get back to the wired stressed feeling you have been used to.
Or if it is a specific food you are allergic to, it could be something specific to avoid, not necessarily carbs in general?
Or if you are out of the habit, maybe start smaller for a more gradual transition?
Or could be missing some of the miconutrients needed to make good use of the carbs?
Or the combination of fat with carbs may be make the metabolism of carbs harder?
I think there may be no way to be know if and how you can make it work without experimenting.
Swinging quickly from HFLC to LFHC probably requires some adjustment if it's been a while. Might not be able to transition overnight.
Thanks @tara for this thoughtful response. Your last sentence probably sums it up, that switching diets may take some adjustment time. I am reading everything I can so I can ask intelligent questions. It probably would have helped if I kept a diary about what I was eating when that happened and had measured quantities etc etc. After low carbing for so many years I kind of lost the habit of journaling.
I also am the recipient of a gastric bypass so my nutrient absorption is a bit abnormal.
 

MissRed

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@DanielleB thanks again for starting this convo.
I am collecting my questions and may post them as individual Qs on the forum once I make sure I haven't found some "starting point" guidance elsewhere. Tnx @jitsmonkey for driving home the need to start somewhere. WIth that in mind I bought milk, carrots, frozen OJ concentrate and potatoes yesterday.
The Organic Valley Co makes several kinds of milk... down to 0% organic and a low fat grass fed version. Danielle have you been confronted with this conundrum, whether to go grass fed or go organic 0%? I went with the grass fed as a transition food and will see how my body responds. But I would like to get the 0%.
And Danielle... so many choices of potatoes and I couldnt find any guidance as to whether there are any factors we should consider in choosing yukon gold over red or baking russet potatoes or fingerlings, which I like best as they are single serving sized.... maybe the cronometer will advise on protein content anyway. ANyone have insights as to whether type of potato makes a whit of difference?
And I can see right now OJ may be an issue, the frozen concentrate doesnt come in no pulp version. PLus I am just going to put my fluoridated water in it. I drink filtered water but I am not going to realistically be able to get the fluoride out.
I also have to take a lot of supplements like Bs because I had a gastric bypass, so am going to have to do a lot of research on them
But there is plenty that I CAN do, and as @jitsmonkey suggested, start somewhere, measure my data points, rinse repeat LOL
 
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Thanks for the info on the Niacinimide and Aspirin. I've only been taking aspirin 2-3 days out of the week and haven't noticed any effects from taking it yet. Do you have any studies or links to information that prove Niacinimide and Aspririn inhibit weight loss when Peat advocates for their use because they lower estrogen which causes weight gain when levels are too high?
I just wanted to say, you shouldn't fix what is not broken. Caffeine releases FFA already and Aspirin or Niacinamide can work against that. Seems unnecessary and a possible risk to me then. See this post for Aspirin, Niacinimide and weight gain
Acetylsalicylic acid (ASA), also known as aspirin, acts by irreversibly inhibiting the platelet cyclooxygenase (COX) enzyme, resulting in inhibition of platelet thromboxane A2 (TXA-2) synthesis. TXA-2 has vasoconstriction activity with increased platelet aggregation, and inhibition results in opposite effects, favorable in preventing arterial thrombosis. A dose of 160–325 mg is sufficient to nearly completely (90%) inhibit platelet COX enzyme, and this effect lasts for the platelet life span (7–10 days). Higher doses, however, also inhibit the synthesis of prostacyclin in blood vessel endothelial cells. Contrary to TXA-2, prostacyclin acts as a vasodilator and inhibits platelet aggregation. Prostacyclin also acts as a modulator in inflammatory processes. These dose-dependent effects of ASA are consequently reflected in different indications for use.
Drugs During Pregnancy and Lactation | ScienceDirect


What form of Vitamin C would you recommend? I'm drinking a liter of orange juice a day and my Vit C requirements are met on Cron-O-Meter...how much more Vit C would you suggest? Also, do most berries have catechins or are there only specific types.
Just regular L-ascorbic acid about 1-2 grams. Oh but then Centella Asiatica / Gotu Kola is more interesting coz it helps recycles Vitamin E like Vitamin C and is anti-cellulite and collagen supporting.

Can you explain more what you mean in regards to the stearic acid from milk fat helping in the weight loss? Those who have tried the VLF diet in the past have had success from keeping fat as low as possible, hence the fat free milk....
Because of this, see post:
Dietary Stearic Acid Leads to a Reduction of Visceral Adipose Tissue in Athymic Nude Mice

It is not clear to me yet what fats work better for weight loss, low milk fat or low coconut fat, but very interesting.

Excuse my ignorance but what are "ORAC values:" and "OPC Oligomere proanthocyanidin"?? Never heard of these before. What fruits and veggies have higher values of these components? Shouldn't collagen powder be adequate for connective tissue purposes?

What is high ORAC value?
"ORAC stands for oxygen radical absorbance capacity, a measure of the ability of a food or any other substance to quench oxygen free radicals in a test tube. ... While "ORAC" and "antioxidant" are different, eating a combination of foods that have demonstrated high ORAC scores has also boosted blood antioxidant scores."
Foods high in ORAC - https://www.superfoodly.com/orac-values/

Oligomeric proanthocyanidins or OPCs are a class of flavonoid that act as antioxidants (free radical scavengers) in the human body
Proanthocyanidins inhibit the body’s enzymes that break down collagen. Proanthocyanidins help collagen repair and rebuild correctly which can reverse damage done over the years by injury and free radical attack. The breakdown of collagen is what causes our skin to lose its elasticity which in turn causes wrinkles.
The are found in:
  • CRAB APPLE
  • APPLE
  • MOUNTAIN CRANBERRY
  • AVOCADO PEAR STONE
  • UNRIPE COCOA BEAN
  • HORSE CHESTNUT (seed shell)
  • HAWTHORNE FRUIT
  • GOAT WILLOW (catkin)
  • UNRIPE STRAWBERRY (fruit, stem)
  • UNRIPE RASPBERRY (fruit, stem)
  • COLA NUTS
  • PEANUT SKINS
  • GRAPE PIPS/SEEDS
  • RED WINE
Scientific - https://www.integratedhealth.com/infoabstract/pycdes.html
Simple FAQ - http://www.opc.cc/opc-faq.html
WIKI - https://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/Oligomeric_proanthocyanidin
 
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@DanielleB
Usually fats in a natural food are there to help absorb nutrients, like in milk and for feeling of satiety.
Adding coconut oil in diet to lose weight is an effective method an sich, but I don't see the wisdom of also tempering with / removing all the fat from the milk and also removing cholesterol a steroid hormone precursor.
I think when satiety is not reached or not enough energy from fat intake is sensed by the body, this can trigger starvation reactions and disrupt the metabolism.
I therefore hope you combine some fat with a meal, be it coconut or butter.
 
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DanielleB

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@DanielleB thanks again for starting this convo.
I am collecting my questions and may post them as individual Qs on the forum once I make sure I haven't found some "starting point" guidance elsewhere. Tnx @jitsmonkey for driving home the need to start somewhere. WIth that in mind I bought milk, carrots, frozen OJ concentrate and potatoes yesterday.
The Organic Valley Co makes several kinds of milk... down to 0% organic and a low fat grass fed version. Danielle have you been confronted with this conundrum, whether to go grass fed or go organic 0%? I went with the grass fed as a transition food and will see how my body responds. But I would like to get the 0%.
And Danielle... so many choices of potatoes and I couldnt find any guidance as to whether there are any factors we should consider in choosing yukon gold over red or baking russet potatoes or fingerlings, which I like best as they are single serving sized.... maybe the cronometer will advise on protein content anyway. ANyone have insights as to whether type of potato makes a whit of difference?
And I can see right now OJ may be an issue, the frozen concentrate doesnt come in no pulp version. PLus I am just going to put my fluoridated water in it. I drink filtered water but I am not going to realistically be able to get the fluoride out.
I also have to take a lot of supplements like Bs because I had a gastric bypass, so am going to have to do a lot of research on them
But there is plenty that I CAN do, and as @jitsmonkey suggested, start somewhere, measure my data points, rinse repeat LOL

I personally am not including starches in my diet at this point since my goal is weight loss. Peat doesn't necessarily advocate for starches, even in the form of potatoes because if your gut flora is off, ingesting them can lead to endotoxin issues. Some people have trouble digesting starches such as potatoes with symptoms like gas and other digestive upset and this is my experience. Plus, going VLF, most users on this forum have noticed that combining starches with increased carb intake from fruits has actually caused weight gain. If your goal is weight loss, I wouldn't recommend starches. If you search the forum, you will see others who have found they gained weight from implementing starches in their diet, especially alongside higher carb intake. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone though and you should certainly experiment and see what works best for you. For me though, personally, starches are out until I repair my metabolism and lose the weight. Ray has said that if you want the benefits of the potato protein you can make a potato juice broth without the repercussions of ingesting the potatoes whole.

In regards to milk choice, I was drinking full fat raw milk from a local farmer with the good digestive results. However, since going VLF, the raw milk is out for it's fat content. Therefore, I get the Fairlife fat free milk. It's not organic or grass fed but it's lactose free and I have issues digesting milk since my metabolism is compromised so I can't offer much in the way of recommendations there, sorry.
 
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DanielleB

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I just wanted to say, you shouldn't fix what is not broken. Caffeine releases FFA already and Aspirin or Niacinamide can work against that. Seems unnecessary and a possible risk to me then. See this post for Aspirin, Niacinimide and weight gain




Just regular L-ascorbic acid about 1-2 grams. Oh but then Centella Asiatica / Gotu Kola is more interesting coz it helps recycles Vitamin E like Vitamin C and is anti-cellulite and collagen supporting.



Because of this, see post:
Dietary Stearic Acid Leads to a Reduction of Visceral Adipose Tissue in Athymic Nude Mice

It is not clear to me yet what fats work better for weight loss, low milk fat or low coconut fat, but very interesting.



What is high ORAC value?
"ORAC stands for oxygen radical absorbance capacity, a measure of the ability of a food or any other substance to quench oxygen free radicals in a test tube. ... While "ORAC" and "antioxidant" are different, eating a combination of foods that have demonstrated high ORAC scores has also boosted blood antioxidant scores."
Foods high in ORAC - https://www.superfoodly.com/orac-values/

Oligomeric proanthocyanidins or OPCs are a class of flavonoid that act as antioxidants (free radical scavengers) in the human body

The are found in:
  • CRAB APPLE
  • APPLE
  • MOUNTAIN CRANBERRY
  • AVOCADO PEAR STONE
  • UNRIPE COCOA BEAN
  • HORSE CHESTNUT (seed shell)
  • HAWTHORNE FRUIT
  • GOAT WILLOW (catkin)
  • UNRIPE STRAWBERRY (fruit, stem)
  • UNRIPE RASPBERRY (fruit, stem)
  • COLA NUTS
  • PEANUT SKINS
  • GRAPE PIPS/SEEDS
  • RED WINE
Scientific - https://www.integratedhealth.com/infoabstract/pycdes.html
Simple FAQ - http://www.opc.cc/opc-faq.html
WIKI - https://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/Oligomeric_proanthocyanidin

What a wealth of wonderful information! Thank you so much for taking the time to share! VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!!:D
 

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