I'm Not Even Doing It Properly And I Feel Much Better

Bruv

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I have been very slowly easing into a Peat way of eating. I have not made big changes but I feel good and my wife says my mood has changed for the better.
I was eating a low carb paleo diet and had been doing so for quite a few years. I have many allergies and intollerances so I drifted into Paleo after eliminating foods that were giving me problems.

I have been having about a mug of homemade stock per day for a year or two after reading a Peat article about it. Unfortunately I ignored all of the other Peat stuff at the time. I have recently increased the amount of homemade stock and will probably be buying gelatin as well.

The first change I made was to start drinking orange juice and adding sugar and salt while reducing the amount of meat. Pretty quickly, orange juice became between 30-50% of calories per day. I have still been eating a lot of pork and a little chicken each day but I have been removing the chicken skin to add to bones etc for homemade stock. I am also eating more beef and tallow (beef fat) than I was before. The tallow seems to be causing a little reflux though. My experiment with coconut oil didnt go well which is why I have been using tallow
I have lamb several times per week and one or two eggs per day but was already doing that before.

I intend to reduce the chicken and pork more and replace it with beef. I'm toying with the idea of trying some cheese but I have a milk allergy so I have been a little put off by the idea so far. I tried some clarified butter this week. I'm not sure if it caused me a lot of mucus two evenings on the trot but something did so I've given that a miss for a few days.
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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OJ is an amazing thing, but i can not drink more than 2 glass, the pectin in OJ
is problem for many. With all the meat ,you need to be careful about calcium
and phosphorus ratio. Egg shell powder or other source of calcium carbonate
can keep amount of calcium higher than phosphorus.
You can try cottage cheese and greek yogurt for source of good
quality protein. Old cheese are high in histamine. Lamb and beef muscle
meat are high in heme-iron and coffee does not block it's absorption.
Low fat fish , especially shellfish, are a low-iron protein source with
lots of selenium. Trimmed chicken breast is low in iron and has less PUFA
than beef and lamb.
 

leo

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Sep 12, 2013
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Mittir wow I did not know that lamb was so high in iron and that taking coffee with it does no good? I have been eating a lot of lamb lately and washing it down with coffee lol. So are we to avoid lamb?

Also I thought chicken was a no-no no matter what but now you are saying it is better than beef and lamb???

Did you get this from Peat himself....studies....? I would like to know so I can read up.

Thnx
 
J

j.

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I consume beef and lamb. I think unless you have high iron or are in bad health, you shouldn't deprive yourself of every source of iron.

I've never heard Peat advocate chicken over lamb or beef. He usually goes out of his way to say that chicken is not good. He has the advice of limiting chicken to once every 10 days. He didn't say that about beef or lamb as far as I know.
 

leo

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Sep 12, 2013
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What is considered high iron? Out of range high iron? Or does Peat have a specfic number in mind. I posted my labs over on my thread about high bp but no one has commented so I went ahead and sent them to Peat to see. Since I had an early meno and am 61 yrs old, I am wondering if I am one of those who would benefit from donating blood, or just doing therapeutic phlebotomies to lower iron. Then again, I may be ok....I really don't know that much about it.
 

Mittir

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leo said:
Mittir wow I did not know that lamb was so high in iron and that taking coffee with it does no good? I have been eating a lot of lamb lately and washing it down with coffee lol. So are we to avoid lamb?

Also I thought chicken was a no-no no matter what but now you are saying it is better than beef and lamb???

Did you get this from Peat himself....studies....? I would like to know so I can read up.

Thnx

RP does not really recommend muscle meat for it's high
anti thyroid amino acids tryptophan,cysteine and high
phosphorus content. So its beef, lamb, chicken, fish .
He recommends eating gelatin with muscle meat to
improve the balance of amino acids.
He recommends eggs shell powder to balance calcium to phosphorus ratio.
I send him an article about high heme iron content of muscle meat
and he did send a reply. You can check that at email advice depository.
Coffee still blocks the non-heme iron portion of the meat.
Fortunately beef liver is quite low in heme iron and coffee would
block most of the non-heme iron.
In past he always recommended against chicken for it's high PUFA
content. But in one of the audio interview ( i do not remember which one,
possibly one of the KMUD one) someone asked him about chicken and
he said that chicken has high body temperature. For this reason fat is
not deposited in chicken's muscle tissue, but this happens in cow.
IIRC he stopped after that. Then i checked nutritiondata,com and
found that skinless trimmed chicken breast has very low PUFA compared to
some cuts of beef and it is low in iron too.
He once mentioned Transferrin saturtion index
below 25 is protective against cancer.
 

leo

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Sep 12, 2013
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178
Thank you Mittir....mine is 43 so wow....how do I go about lowering that? Guess I will have to stop eating meat. I can get a lot of low fat fish and seafood here, so will try eliminating beef/liver etc for a while and test again. I do not like those numbers.

Bruv...sorry to hijack your thread.
 
J

j.

Guest
Mittir said:
He recommends eggs shell powder to balance calcium to phosphorus ratio.

I don't have a quote now, but I think Peat said that dairy is a safer source for calcium. Calcium carbonate seems to be recommended when one can't get calcium from other sources. He said that high milk intake is usually enough to have a good calcium phosphorus ratio even when one eats meat.

EDIT: According to Bruno at peatarian, Peat considers milk the best way to get calcium. Calcium carbonate can cause constipation and other problems. Link
 

Mittir

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@leo
A serving of liver is so nutritious that extra 6 mg of iron per 100 grams is not a problem.
Liver has about 13 percent heme iron and average absorption rate of
non-heme iron is about 5 to 20 percent, a much lower rate than heme iron.
If i assume max rate of absorption, with coffee you will be absorbing about
0.6 mg of iron and we use about 1 mg of iron daily.
I think there is a problem with hypothyroid people donating blood.
I believe they expect you to have all your thyroid numbers in normal range
before you can donate blood. You can talk to your doctor before you decide
to donate blood. Here is RP's response when i asked him about coffee and heme iron.

I think that's true, that coffee affects mainly non-heme iron absorption. The heme has toxic effects, forming carbon monoxide, apart from the iron.
As I understand it, the amount of non-heme iron that's absorbed increases with the extent of its reduction, with ferrous iron being absorbed much more than the ferric form. The presence of reductants in the food will increase absorption.

If you rely on fish you still have high tryptophan cystein problem.
You have to add gelatin to balance that. Gelatin is almost iron free.
Fish head is also good a source of thyroid hormone.

@j He said all those things you mentioned in interviews.
I was talking about calcium carbonate when one is only using meat and fish for protein
and have problem with dairy.
But he seems to give slightly different
ratio for calcium and phosphorus in different interviews.
Ideally 1:1 and maximum 2:1 phosphorus : calcium.
Then in another interview he was saying to keep
calcium higher than phosphorus. I send him an email asking if
1:2 phosphorus : calcium safe and here is his answer
Yes, that's safe. Even a 1 to 1 ratio is probably safe, but the ideal
hasn't been clearly defined.
 

BingDing

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Tennessee, USA
I believe the Nutrition Data numbers about skinless chicken breast are right. Of course I can't remember where I read it but RP said the PUFAs in commercial chicken do get deposited in the muscle of most of the chicken but not in the breast. For truly free range chicken I wouldn't worry about it at all, assuming I wanted to eat chicken.
 

4peatssake

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Way to go Bruv! :woo
 

leo

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Sep 12, 2013
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Thank you ....that was very informative. I thought low fat fish was ok and have been eating quite a bit.

He wrote me back and told me to try to get my proteins from milk cheese and seafood for now.

Chicken just grosses me out.....can't find any here without hormones/antibiotics. No problem with avoiding it at all. I'm really going to miss lamb.

Thankfully where I live I can have therapeutic phlebotomies, whereby they just draw my blood and throw it out.
 

Bruv

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j. said:
Mittir said:
He recommends eggs shell powder to balance calcium to phosphorus ratio.

I don't have a quote now, but I think Peat said that dairy is a safer source for calcium. Calcium carbonate seems to be recommended when one can't get calcium from other sources. He said that high milk intake is usually enough to have a good calcium phosphorus ratio even when one eats meat.

EDIT: According to Bruno at peatarian, Peat considers milk the best way to get calcium. Calcium carbonate can cause constipation and other problems. Link
I think Mittir was recommending calcium carbonate to me because I am allergic to milk. I have only tried clarified butter recently but I am unsure if it is causing me a problem or not. When I am sure one way or the other I might try another milk product.
 

Bruv

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Mittir said:
OJ is an amazing thing, but i can not drink more than 2 glass, the pectin in OJ
is problem for many. With all the meat ,you need to be careful about calcium
and phosphorus ratio. Egg shell powder or other source of calcium carbonate
can keep amount of calcium higher than phosphorus.
You can try cottage cheese and greek yogurt for source of good
quality protein. Old cheese are high in histamine. Lamb and beef muscle
meat are high in heme-iron and coffee does not block it's absorption.
Low fat fish , especially shellfish, are a low-iron protein source with
lots of selenium. Trimmed chicken breast is low in iron and has less PUFA
than beef and lamb.
I am aiming for around 100g of protein at the moment (I used to each much more) with about 80g of that from meat. Most of the rest is from OJ, eggs and stock. I will try cottage cheese when I have finished my clarified butter experiment.
I can add more fish to my diet. I am really not keen on it though but maybe a little added to meat dishes through the week. I am not too keen on chicken breast either. Especially skinless. I have just recently started using a local butcher that sells what translates as "Country chickens" which is some kind of free range chicken. They do taste better than supermarket chickens so the breast should be more bearable.
I might be a little stuck for fat options though if my experiment with clarified butter doesn't work out. I tried coconut oil but didn't get on well with it. I was using one teaspoon, five meals per day. I'll start over again and see how I get on using it just once per day but I need to experiment with other foods first. In the mean time I'll be using tallow.
 

Bruv

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I should have asked earlier. Is there an ideal time for the coffee? Before, during or after the meat?
 

jaa

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Interesting about how coffee binds to non-heme iron. Does anyone know how the heme content of moose stacks up against lamb?
 

Mittir

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@Bruv
Coffee works when it is taken within 1 hour of meal.Not before meal.
Decaf coffee works the same in inhibiting non-heme iron absorption.
I think lamb ribs have a good balance of muscle meat and gelatine.
You do not have to totally give up lamb if you choose the right cut of meat.
You have to be bit careful with seafood, this can be a source of excess
iodine and other toxins found in fish. It can be risky if you eat seafood everyday.
IIRC gelatinous part of meat is very low in iron. 100 grams of
unsweetened gelatin powder has 86 grams of protein and
1.1 mg of iron and 40 grams of phosphorus.
RP thinks gelatin can be a large part of protein
intake for an adult. Gelatin is pro-thyroid with
many other health benefits.
Do you have problem with regular butter?

@jaa
Nutritiondata shows 4 mg iron per 100 grams of moose meat.
Do not know if moose muscle meat's iron composition is different than cow's.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lam ... cts/4642/2
 

leo

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Sep 12, 2013
Messages
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Mittir the toxins you mention.....aren't those from oceans near industrialized countries? I am in Central America and there is not much industry here. Surrounded by two relatively clean oceans and our fish are not of the fatty variety that Peat warns about. They are also small which I understand can hold less toxins in their meat.

Interesting what you advise Bruv regarding powdered gelatin. I may also try getting most of my protein from my powder for the time being and just use fruits/milk potatoes as other minor sources. I feel the cheeses have too much sodium lately, and I tested rather high sodium after salting everything per reading on the forum.

I thought this would be easy but is turning out to be quite difficult. Problem is I do not want to go back to low carb either. I am thoroughly and completely over my former love affair with food. I am sort of sad about it and wonder if I were better off when I ate everything, content in my ignorant bliss. Most of my friends are that way, and seem much happier and have a healthier relationship with food.

I'm ranting....sorry.....
 

Bruv

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Mittir said:
@Bruv
Coffee works when it is taken within 1 hour of meal.Not before meal.
Decaf coffee works the same in inhibiting non-heme iron absorption.
I think lamb ribs have a good balance of muscle meat and gelatine.
You do not have to totally give up lamb if you choose the right cut of meat.
You have to be bit careful with seafood, this can be a source of excess
iodine and other toxins found in fish. It can be risky if you eat seafood everyday.
IIRC gelatinous part of meat is very low in iron. 100 grams of
unsweetened gelatin powder has 86 grams of protein and
1.1 mg of iron and 40 grams of phosphorus.
RP thinks gelatin can be a large part of protein
intake for an adult. Gelatin is pro-thyroid with
many other health benefits.
Do you have problem with regular butter?
Thanks for the tips.
I had not drunk coffee for about 12 years I think? I've been having half a teaspoon in black coffee and sugar right before my orange juice every morning. I'm really not used to it yet. A couple of weeks ago I had the coffee but then went to have a quick look at a job a few hundred metres away so I thought that I would have my orange juice and the rest of my breakfast when I got back. The caffeine (what there was of it) hit me really hard while I was at the job. It was a litte unpleasant. I used to drink loads of beore I gave it up though.
Is decaf ok? Is it not made using chemicals that we should be avoiding?
I usually have leg or shoulder of lamb. I'll look out or ribs next time.
I will keep in mind the warning about iodine and toxins in seafood.
Increasing the gelatin shouldn't be much of a problem. I'll order some online and I will keep on using the homemade stuff as well (One of my favourite foods).
Butter is a problem for me. Several years ago I tested myself with one teaspoon of butter per day after being dairy free for several years. On the 3rd day I was so choked up with mucus that I had to stop with the experiment. It took another 3 days without butter before it cleared up.
My wife brought some Greek yoghurt home for me to test myself with but Im' still experimenting with the clarified butter at the moment.
 

Bruv

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leo said:
I thought this would be easy but is turning out to be quite difficult. Problem is I do not want to go back to low carb either.
Don't worry. Just take it easy. I am not rushing into this at all but I have every intention of making more changes in the future. Just not all at once.
 
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