I'm Getting Hairy

[Gone Peating]

I should not have used the term mutation, since it is a silly concept. I'm not talking about selection, which is just a small part of a species' evolution. Organisms are much more than their DNA, and DNA can adapt very quickly. If fish thrown in a dark cave can loose their eye sight and develop more powerful other senses to survive in this new environment within two generations, apes can develop into humans over a few million years. I'll ask again: How did humans come to exist, in your opinion?

Can you respond to my previous post?

Did they develop new senses or did they just get better at relying on their other senses like blind humans do?

 

[Kvothe]

Can you respond to my previous post?

Did they develop new senses or did they just get better at relying on their other senses like blind humans do?

What do you mean did the develop new senses? These fish lost their eyes, two entire organs, because they were to metabolically expensive in the new environment. How many blind humans do you know that: a) can survive on their own? lost their eyes?

 

[Orangeyouglad]

I'm experiencing something very similar in the same locations. Back of the forearm, knuckles, etc. If this was usual chest/leg hair, I wouldn't mind much. The fact that it is sprouting in unusual locations and spreading is what worries me. At 29, I don't think this is normal.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

Can you respond to my previous post?

Did they develop new senses or did they just get better at relying on their other senses like blind humans do?

I feel like this should now be a separate thread...

 

[Gone Peating]

What do you mean did the develop new senses? These fish lost their eyes, two entire organs, because they were to metabolically expensive in the new environment. How many blind humans do you know that: a) can survive on their own? lost their eyes?

Fish have insanely good senses other than sight. Their sense of smell is better, and they basically have a sixth sense where they can detect changes in water vibrations very well.

They aren’t comparable to us from a sensory perspective

 

[berk]

I'm experiencing something very similar in the same locations. Back of the forearm, knuckles, etc. If this was usual chest/leg hair, I wouldn't mind much. The fact that it is sprouting in unusual locations and spreading is what worries me. At 29, I don't think this is normal.

Congratulations, you are a healthy grownup man with high testosterone levels.
Now stop crying and act like one ;-)

You want get rid of it?
Stop exercising, decrease your testosterone and increase your estrogen and get fat.
problem solved.

 

[Kvothe]

Congratulations, you are a healthy grownup man with high testosterone levels.
Now stop crying and act like one ;-)

You want get rid of it?
Stop exercising, decrease your testosterone and increase your estrogen and get fat.
problem solved.

I'm sorry, but your perception of body hair and the hormonal pattern associated with it, is completely wrong. Body hair is associated with high estrogen and prolactin, and low SHBG. It's the opposite of high testosterone, and low stress hormones.

 

[berk]

I'm sorry, but your perception of body hair and the hormonal pattern associated with it, is completely wrong. Body hair is associated with high estrogen and prolactin, and low SHBG. It's the opposite of high testosterone, and low stress hormones.

well get some blood work then instead of guessing.
Afraid for needles?

 

[Ron J]

I'm sorry, but your perception of body hair and the hormonal pattern associated with it, is completely wrong. Body hair is associated with high estrogen and prolactin, and low SHBG. It's the opposite of high testosterone, and low stress hormones.

Body hair seems to be occur among both healthy/unhealthy(high body fat) men. We are used to see it more often among high body fat men(upregulation of DHT to keep estrogen from feminizing them) because they vastly outnumber androgenic lean men.

 

[Jing]

I'm sorry, but your perception of body hair and the hormonal pattern associated with it, is completely wrong. Body hair is associated with high estrogen and prolactin, and low SHBG. It's the opposite of high testosterone, and low stress hormones.

I don't think that is true, I only started growing body hair after going on testosterone injections and taking aromtase inhibitors. And most people I know who have androgenic features and are androgenic in personality have body hair, people I know who don't have androgenic features and don't have androgenic personality have no body hair.

Female to male transgenders take testosterone and dht and grow body hair , male to female take estrogen and don't grow body hair.

 

[Kvothe]

Body hair seems to be occur among both healthy/unhealthy(high body fat) men. We are used to see it more often among high body fat men(upregulation of DHT to keep estrogen from feminizing them) because they vastly outnumber androgenic lean men.

I'm not talking about personal obervations. The only positive association between hormones and body hair that studies have found are estrogen and prolactin, and lower SHBG. Saying that body hair is manly or a sign of androgen dominance is false.

well get some blood work then instead of guessing.
Afraid for needles?

I'm not guessing anything, I'm simply not projecting my bro-science phantasies onto the world.

Am J Phys Anthropol. 1993 Oct;92(2):155-64.
Sex hormone levels and body hair growth in !Kung San and Kavango men from Namibia.
Winkler EM1, Christiansen K.

Abstract
The relation between hair growth and levels of sex hormones in serum and saliva was investigated in 256 !Kung San and Kavango men (ages 18 to 39 years) from Namibia/Southern Africa. Serum concentrations of total testosterone (Tser), 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol (E2) as well as the level of bioavailable non-SHBG-bound testosterone in the saliva (Tsal) were determined by radioimmunoassay. The distribution and density of scalp and facial hair as well as the development of terminal hair on the chest, abdomen, pubic area, arms, fingers, and legs were categorized using objective criteria. Covariance analyses revealed marked differences in the distribution of body hair in the San and the Negro sample. This is partly explained by a significant influence of androgen and estrogen levels on the growth of terminal hair. DHT and the ratio DHT/Tser are significantly positively related to midphalangeal hair growth and negatively to pubic hair development. Tsal, the bioavailable fraction of total testosterone, exerts a weak positive influence on the degree of arm and leg hair growth; the most significant positive effect on the growth of abdominal, arm, and leg hair in our samples is caused by E2. The ratio Tser/E2 correlates significantly negatively with the arm and leg hair development and the ratio DHT/E2 with the degree of abdominal, pubic, arm, and leg hair, whereas lower DHT concentrations occur in men with stronger hair development.

 

[jb116]

I'm not talking about personal obervations. The only positive association between hormones and body hair that studies have found are estrogen and prolactin, and lower SHBG. Saying that body hair is manly or a sign of androgen dominance is false.




I'm not guessing anything, I'm simply not projecting my bro-science phantasies onto the world.

Am J Phys Anthropol. 1993 Oct;92(2):155-64.
Sex hormone levels and body hair growth in !Kung San and Kavango men from Namibia.
Winkler EM1, Christiansen K.

Abstract
The relation between hair growth and levels of sex hormones in serum and saliva was investigated in 256 !Kung San and Kavango men (ages 18 to 39 years) from Namibia/Southern Africa. Serum concentrations of total testosterone (Tser), 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol (E2) as well as the level of bioavailable non-SHBG-bound testosterone in the saliva (Tsal) were determined by radioimmunoassay. The distribution and density of scalp and facial hair as well as the development of terminal hair on the chest, abdomen, pubic area, arms, fingers, and legs were categorized using objective criteria. Covariance analyses revealed marked differences in the distribution of body hair in the San and the Negro sample. This is partly explained by a significant influence of androgen and estrogen levels on the growth of terminal hair. DHT and the ratio DHT/Tser are significantly positively related to midphalangeal hair growth and negatively to pubic hair development. Tsal, the bioavailable fraction of total testosterone, exerts a weak positive influence on the degree of arm and leg hair growth; the most significant positive effect on the growth of abdominal, arm, and leg hair in our samples is caused by E2. The ratio Tser/E2 correlates significantly negatively with the arm and leg hair development and the ratio DHT/E2 with the degree of abdominal, pubic, arm, and leg hair, whereas lower DHT concentrations occur in men with stronger hair development.

It isn't surprising that although they arrived at an observational fact concerning androgens in the serum, they still concluded in the misguided way as most mainstream viewers of estrogen conclude. Therein lies the trick :) Ray has spoken about estrogen mostly exerting its hazardous or characteristic activity when active in tissue and cells and not necessarily blood/serum. Most young people, who incidentally have body and scalp hair, can show higher blood levels of E2. With a good, healthy metabolism and digestion it is understood the liver will eliminate the estrogen(s). Also to reiterate, a study or two here and there doesn't account for the phenomena of older men losing body hair or becoming patchy and/or sparse as young associated and protective hormones decline and E2 increases in tissues. Anyway I think a study like this indirectly proves what has been being said in this thread.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

Congratulations, you are a healthy grownup man with high testosterone levels.
Now stop crying and act like one ;-)

You want get rid of it?
Stop exercising, decrease your testosterone and increase your estrogen and get fat.
problem solved.

Cute.

I'll explain this again - I'm simply curious about the mechanism by all of which this body hair development is happening, and yes, I'd like to put a stop on it. I'm already the hairiest guy in my family and have some hairline recession.

As @Kvothe stated, you are likely misinformed on how certain body hair development works.

well get some blood work then instead of guessing.
Afraid for needles?

As luck would have it, I'm not.

Here are some blood work numbers and saliva testing...

 

[Yggr]

Castrates have no functioning gonads. They have great head hair, low body hair and a "gynoid habitus." I assume their adrenals compensate to a degree and therefore have elevated cortisol, adrenaline and elevated pituitary hormones.

Why do they have such great hair given these preconditions? Assuming that hairloss/hirsuitism is caused by increased adrenal function and lowered gonadal function?

 

[Orangeyouglad]

Castrates have no functioning gonads. They have great head hair, low body hair and a "gynoid habitus." I assume their adrenals compensate to a degree and therefore have elevated cortisol, adrenaline and elevated pituitary hormones.

Why do they have such great hair given these preconditions? Assuming that hairloss/hirsuitism is caused by increased adrenal function and lowered gonadal function?

That's a really good question. I've never thought about this. I hope someone more knowledgable can chime in here because I'm curious as well.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

I wanted to give an update on this. First, the good news: It looks like I'm starting to develop small hairs in the hairline area. The bad news, I have more body hair than ever - And I can't figure out why. I guess it would make sense that some of the same mechanisms that are useful for hair growth on the head would also be involved in body hair growth. But I have no idea how to stop it and it's getting ridiculous. Any thoughts?

 

[Yggr]

High dose Vitamin e 1200 iu if alpha-tocopheryl acetate with a fatty meal. Should inhibit e receptor. Milage may vary.

 

[mrchibbs]

I wanted to give an update on this. First, the good news: It looks like I'm starting to develop small hairs in the hairline area. The bad news, I have more body hair than ever - And I can't figure out why. I guess it would make sense that some of the same mechanisms that are useful for hair growth on the head would also be involved in body hair growth. But I have no idea how to stop it and it's getting ridiculous. Any thoughts?

For what it's worth, I think @redsun original comments were on the right track. Zinc (and B6) seem to be involved intimately, and can lower cortisol, increase progesterone etc. That combo can and will lower prolactin. Vitamin E as well. If you can get regular oysters that's great. Zinc gluconate powder is a safe form for regular use (isn't too contamined with heavy metals). There may be even better forms of zinc, like bis-glycinate? But I haven't researched it recently.

His comments about losing excess weight are very well informed as well. In many of the papers on hirsutism, the researchers often speak of it as an essential treatment for excess body hair.

Pregnenolone has been mentioned by Ray as helpful to stop the excessive adrenal stimulation. So I would take some daily as well/ Raising thyroid function is important as well, the better it gets the less your adrenals are stimulated.

I experienced similar things to you, and the body hair growth stopped after I improved my health (i.e the hair got lighter in color and grows more slowly). I'm still more hairy than before I got sick/ill, but it's definitely less than it was and is seemingly not getting worse.

To help things along, there is some evidence that handheld light/laser hair removal devices are successful at reducing excess body hair (works best with dark hair on fair skin) You can get a few on amazon for a couple hundred bucks.

 

[GenericName86]

Just to chime in on my experience with excess body hair is that when i was supplementing with zinc and pregnenolone i noticed a decrease in unwanted body hair, so the random thick single hairs that would appear around my shoulders stopped completely and my upper arm hair was reduced somewhat too and overall body hair became much finer.

 

[mrchibbs]

Just to chime in on my experience with excess body hair is that when i was supplementing with zinc and pregnenolone i noticed a decrease in unwanted body hair, so the random thick single hairs that would appear around my shoulders stopped completely and my upper arm hair was reduced somewhat too and overall body hair became much finer.

+1

It's been my experience as well