I'm Done Looking For A Method To Lower Body Fat Without Caloric Restriction

[lollipop]

For dropping fat without calorie restriction you can consider a few things, most of what has already been mentioned:

1. Go very low fat, as low as possible
2. Try to move more, be more active where you can
3. Get proper sleep
4. Keep cortisol, estrogen and serotonin as low as possible
5. Eat and live according to your circadian rhythm. More carbs in the morning and less at night. Adipose tissue is more insulin sensitive at night and insulin inhibits lipolysis more potently later in the day.
6. Consider using uncouplers, as they will increase energy expenditure via thermogenesis.
7. For some people it helps to eat more protein and for others it help to restrict protein. Experiment to find your sweet spot. Eating to taste and according to your activity level could be a good start.
8. Keep the gut clean and eat easy digestible foods
9. Even if you don't want to be in a caloric deficit, it would still be best to count your calories so that you don't eat in a caloric excess
10. Stay away from big doses niacinamide, aspirin, vitamin E, etc., things that inhibit lipolysis
11. Use things that speed up metabolism, such as caffeine, but obviously don't overdo it just for the sake of boosting metabolism.

Experimentation is always key to finding what works for you.

+1 good post.

 

[Ron J]

For dropping fat without calorie restriction you can consider a few things, most of what has already been mentioned:

1. Go very low fat, as low as possible
2. Try to move more, be more active where you can
3. Get proper sleep
4. Keep cortisol, estrogen and serotonin as low as possible
5. Eat and live according to your circadian rhythm. More carbs in the morning and less at night. Adipose tissue is more insulin sensitive at night and insulin inhibits lipolysis more potently later in the day.
6. Consider using uncouplers, as they will increase energy expenditure via thermogenesis.
7. For some people it helps to eat more protein and for others it help to restrict protein. Experiment to find your sweet spot. Eating to taste and according to your activity level could be a good start.
8. Keep the gut clean and eat easy digestible foods
9. Even if you don't want to be in a caloric deficit, it would still be best to count your calories so that you don't eat in a caloric excess
10. Stay away from big doses niacinamide, aspirin, vitamin E, etc., things that inhibit lipolysis
11. Use things that speed up metabolism, such as caffeine, but obviously don't overdo it just for the sake of boosting metabolism.

Experimentation is always key to finding what works for you.

Thanks for the advice.
Out of those three that inhibit liposys, I'm currently taking 1,500mg of niacinamide per day in three doses. I'll see how it goes now that I'm limiting calories and fat. If I don't notice any progress, I'll likely reduce niacinamide.

 

[cyclops]

Go very low fat, as low as possible

Would you really go zero fat? Or would you still include a little each day?

Stay away from big doses niacinamide, aspirin, vitamin E, etc., things that inhibit lipolysis

I always thought vitamin E was one of the best things when losing fat -- somehow helping to take care of the fat being burned. I've heard debates on whether or not aspirin and niacinamide are beneficial when trying to burn fat because they inhibit lipolysis, but vitamin E always seemed to be a given as a beneficial.

 

[Ron J]

Would you really go zero fat? Or would you still include a little each day?



I always thought vitamin E was one of the best things when losing fat -- somehow helping to take care of the fat being burned. I've heard debates on whether or not aspirin and niacinamide are beneficial when trying to burn fat because they inhibit lipolysis, but vitamin E always seemed to be a given as a beneficial.

I think no-fat helps, it's just that I may have been consuming too many calories. So the things that helped me(made a difference), like DHT/dopaminergics, NDT, etc. likely prevented weight gain, or slowed down weight gain.

 

[InChristAlone]

To go back to your original topic -- weight loss without calorie restriction. There have been several studies showing that the "when" matters quite a bit on eating. In a nutshell, eating earlier in the day and restricting to a certain number of hours - e.g. a 10-12 hour eating window - works with your circadian gene expression.

Couple of studies (there are many more!):
Circadian Timing of Food Intake Contributes to Weight Gain - Circadian Timing of Food Intake Contributes to Weight Gain - mouse study that showed the same number of calories consumed during the inactive period (daytime for mice) led to increased fat mass compared to mice eating the same during their active period.
Circadian and Metabolic Effects of Light: Implications in Weight Homeostasis and Health - Circadian and Metabolic Effects of Light: Implications in Weight Homeostasis and Health - good overview of the mechanisms at play and the human conditions
Time‐restricted feeding for prevention and treatment of cardiometabolic disorders - Time‐restricted feeding for prevention and treatment of cardiometabolic disorders -- overview of some of the human studies on the topic of time restricted feeding.

n=1
I've tried every way of eating out there and gave up on dieting a few years ago to focus on just being healthy. I felt great, mentally was great, but didn't lose any weight. Last fall I bought some blue-blocking glasses to wear in the evening (helps with melatonin production, circadian rhythm). Then in December or so I started eating dinner early (around 5:30) and didn't eat anything after dinner (for the most part... not perfect there!). Anyway, this has lead to dropping 20 lbs over about 8-9 months. No eating changes in the amount of food or type of food - just the timing. And no, this wasn't fast -- or really even something that I knew was happening for the first few months.

The more studies that I read on the impact of circadian gene expression on our chronic health, the more convinced I am that what we eat doesn't matter as much as getting the circadian aspects right. Artificial light at night - specifically blue light (~480nm) from TV, Computer, CFL/LED bulbs - messes with our circadian rhythm. For however many thousands of years we humans have walked the earth, it has been dark at night and light during the day. People have thrived in different climates and on different diets, but we are now messing with something even more basic when it comes to screwing up our circadian rhythm with blue light at night and not enough sunlight during the day. We have a core circadian clock set by the oscillation of the transcription and translation of a couple of pairs of genes (CLOCK/BMAL1 and CRY/PER). That clock is then entrained by light hitting the melanopsin containing photo receptors in our retina. Food intake then also acts on genes that rise and fall in the liver, and timing the food so that everything is in sync is the way we were intended to eat.

Great post! I am going to try this out. My circadian rhythm got really messed up over the last year and I put on belly fat without changing anything else about my diet. In fact at times undereating for my activity level. People don't realize how important light is to the body. We didn't evolve to sit inside 24/7. We came out when the sun was up and went to bed when the sun went down.

 

[Hans]

Thanks for the advice.
Out of those three that inhibit liposys, I'm currently taking 1,500mg of niacinamide per day in three doses. I'll see how it goes now that I'm limiting calories and fat. If I don't notice any progress, I'll likely reduce niacinamide.

Is there a specific reason why you are taking such a high dose? Are you trying to fix a certain problem?

 

[Hans]

Would you really go zero fat? Or would you still include a little each day?



I always thought vitamin E was one of the best things when losing fat -- somehow helping to take care of the fat being burned. I've heard debates on whether or not aspirin and niacinamide are beneficial when trying to burn fat because they inhibit lipolysis, but vitamin E always seemed to be a given as a beneficial.

I would try to go as low fat as possible, and keep fat below 10-15g daily. But you can go even lower if you eat just skim milk, fruit and rice/potato. The goal is to get into "carbosis" where insulin signalling is so low that insulin isn't inhibiting lipolysis, and it's as if you're on a low carb diet while feasting on carbs.

Vitamin E is save and very beneficial and should not be a big concern. It's just big doses might slow fat loss. 100-200IU daily wouldn't affect fat loss and still give the benefit of protecting against PUFAs.

 

[GreekGod]

Hello
I wanted to create a calorie deficit by increasing my metabolism on a high calorie diet, but so far it has been a failure, or I'm eating too much. Aspirin as discussed here, and 1,200mg daily of caffeine(aside from many other things that ramp up my metabolism/thyroid) was a failure as well. My only option is to lower calories.
Also, I think implementing this, with this would make it quite safe.

People do very well shredding the fat by doing the meat and water only diet for about 30 days. They use fatty cuts of meat like ribeye steaks and higher fat ground beef. Here s a few links to check out. It works for me, as I do it a few times per year to keep a lean muscular body type without excessive amounts of exercise. I also do raw eggs but they may not work as well as the fatty meat and water diet.

http://web.archive.org/web/20150508...3/09/zero-carb-interview-the-andersen-family/

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/03/14/dr-shawn-bakers-carnivore-diet-a-review/

 

[Ron J]

People do very well shredding the fat by doing the meat and water only diet for about 30 days. They use fatty cuts of meat like ribeye steaks and higher fat ground beef. Here s a few links to check out. It works for me, as I do it a few times per year to keep a lean muscular body type without excessive amounts of exercise. I also do raw eggs but they may not work as well as the fatty meat and water diet.

http://web.archive.org/web/20150508...3/09/zero-carb-interview-the-andersen-family/

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/03/14/dr-shawn-bakers-carnivore-diet-a-review/

I was into paleo before, but before going to extremes that might be risky, I'd like to try out the things I mentioned.
@Salmonamb What do you think the dose should be? I'd like all the good effects from niacinamide. I think that was the maximum dose that can be taken for a while/long term(I don't remember exactly).

 

[Hans]

What do you think the dose should be? I'd like all the good effects from niacinamide. I think that was the maximum dose that can be taken for a while/long term(I don't remember exactly).

Peat advises to use 100mg x2-3 daily, but ideally supplementation is not needed if diet is on point. 1500mg is advised as a good dose for cancer prevention I think. 3g was also used to treat arthritis. There are obviously many more benefits, but I think if you're not treating something, 100mg x1-3 daily would suffice.

 

[Jon]

@Ron J i think youre original epiphany is best. No deficit=no fat loss. Period. No need to complicate it.

There is no lipolysis without stress and so there is not fat loss absent cortisol. Losing fat=raising cortisol.

 

[Hans]

@Ron J i think youre original epiphany is best. No deficit=no fat loss. Period. No need to complicate it.

There is no lipolysis without stress and so there is not fat loss absent cortisol. Losing fat=raising cortisol.

I think he wants to lose fat without cutting calories very low due to a slow metabolism so that it becomes very stressful. If he speeds up his metabolism, he could easily eat 2500+ calories and lose fat without exercise.

 

[Jon]

I think he wants to lose fat without cutting calories very low due to a slow metabolism so that it becomes very stressful. If he speeds up his metabolism, he could easily eat 2500+ calories and lose fat without exercise.

I get that but no where in here we're his calories mentioned. he talks about percentages but not total calorie intake.

The only way that I see losing fat with a "lower metabolism" being more stressful than losing it with a "high metabolism" is if your maintenance calorie level is so low that a deficit of 250-500 cals is going to prevent you from getting adequate micro nutrients from whole food and/or a person is already very lean (meaning already low circulating levels of leptin). Otherwise it's no less stressful to someone with a metabolism that can accommodate 3000cals at maintenance to lose fat. Tissue catabolism is tissue catabolism. 3 years ago my maintenance calories were 2540 and now they're 2860 (after 7ish lbs of muscle gain) and it's still just as stressful to lose a lb of fat.

I'm still not entirely sure of the efficacy of vlf dieting pertaining to lower stress induced weightloss. anyway depending on how much weight a person has to lose if they do a moderate calorie deficit (-15%) they will most likely not have much hormonal backlash and WILL most likely increase free test levels about 0.8% for every lb lost up to a certain bf% as decreases of adipose generally halt aromatase activity.

 

[Hans]

I get that but no where in here we're his calories mentioned. he talks about percentages but not total calorie intake.

The only way that I see losing fat with a "lower metabolism" being more stressful than losing it with a "high metabolism" is if your maintenance calorie level is so low that a deficit of 250-500 cals is going to prevent you from getting adequate micro nutrients from whole food and/or a person is already very lean (meaning already low circulating levels of leptin). Otherwise it's no less stressful to someone with a metabolism that can accommodate 3000cals at maintenance to lose fat. Tissue catabolism is tissue catabolism. 3 years ago my maintenance calories were 2540 and now they're 2860 (after 7ish lbs of muscle gain) and it's still just as stressful to lose a lb of fat.

I'm still not entirely sure of the efficacy of vlf dieting pertaining to lower stress induced weightloss. anyway depending on how much weight a person has to lose if they do a moderate calorie deficit (-15%) they will most likely not have much hormonal backlash and WILL most likely increase free test levels about 0.8% for every lb lost up to a certain bf% as decreases of adipose generally halt aromatase activity.

I did advise him to check his calories so that he at least doesn't over eat; so yes it's important to know how much calories is being consumed daily.

For me it would be more stressful to cut on 2000 calories than 2500 calories. I'm currently eating 2400-2500 calories with 10g fat and I'm dropping bodyfat. I'm mostly sedentary, except I lift 3-4 times a week for about 30 min. I'm already around 10%, maybe a bit lower, and the diet is not stressful at all.
The less calories someone consumes, the more hungry they are prone to be and the more stress hormones will be elevated. Most people on this forum aren't interested in getting shredded, so doing the least stressful thing is the best and preferred option. Very low fat is one easy way of doing it. Also, if you're not as young and healthy anymore and your body doesn't handle stress as well as it use to, then it would definitely be best to keep stress hormones as low as possible to avoid further health complications.
VLF will also increase uncoupling, steroid production, thyroid function, reduce inflammation, etc.
So a VLFD has more benefits than just dropping fat.

 

[raypeatclips]

Just throwing my current experience into the mix. I was massively under exaggerating in my head how many calories I was eating. I am tracking calories now and eating approximately 2500 a day and losing weight. I must have been eating maybe 4000+ before. Macros are approx 50 percent carbohydrates then both fat and protein very between 20-30 each. I am definitely not low fat and I am starting to wonder if the vlf "works" if it does work, simply because of how calorie dense fat is, removing that will drop your calories into a deficit then you lose weight. I think @Jon says similar things and I agree with him based on my experiences.

I've lost approx 7 lbs so far.

My TDEE was around 2550 I believe, so if I am in a deficit in a day it is only by 1-200 calories and I feel fine to be honest.

 

[Jem Oz]

Some good/interesting info here. I'm just waiting for a certain forum member to chime in with their usual, lengthy, doomsday warning about under eating and the deletrious effects of doing the slightest form of physical activity. You can set your watch to it!

Pls to keep us updated on your results @Ron J.

 

[Hans]

Just throwing my current experience into the mix. I was massively under exaggerating in my head how many calories I was eating. I am tracking calories now and eating approximately 2500 a day and losing weight. I must have been eating maybe 4000+ before. Macros are approx 50 percent carbohydrates then both fat and protein very between 20-30 each. I am definitely not low fat and I am starting to wonder if the vlf "works" if it does work, simply because of how calorie dense fat is, removing that will drop your calories into a deficit then you lose weight. I think @Jon says similar things and I agree with him based on my experiences.

I've lost approx 7 lbs so far.

My TDEE was around 2550 I believe, so if I am in a deficit in a day it is only by 1-200 calories and I feel fine to be honest.

From a molecular proton perspective, saturated fat combined with carbs causes reverse electron transfer and creates reactive oxygen species, which leads to insulin resistance. This can lead to hyperglycemia. Saturated fat is more prone to interfere with glucose oxidation and create lots of ROS. PUFA makes you more insulin sensitive in the short run, which can lead to faster weight gain, but then it backfired and causes oxidative stress and diabetes.

But of course personal experience is best and it's always best to see how one is reacting to certain macro combinations.

Keep up the good work.

 

[raypeatclips]

From a molecular proton perspective, saturated fat combined with carbs causes reverse electron transfer and creates reactive oxygen species, which leads to insulin resistance. This can lead to hyperglycemia. Saturated fat is more prone to interfere with glucose oxidation and create lots of ROS. PUFA makes you more insulin sensitive in the short run, which can lead to faster weight gain, but then it backfired and causes oxidative stress and diabetes.

But of course personal experience is best and it's always best to see how one is reacting to certain macro combinations.

Keep up the good work.

Saturated fat and carbs causes insulin resistance? Huh? Any proof of that?

Im literally doing exactly what Peat recommends, haidut recommends etc. 30 percent max of high saturated fat sources, usually closer to 25 or less. This really isn't extreme. The only thing is LOWER calories than I used to be getting, and lower than my TDEE.

 

[ecstatichamster]

consider cutting starch and using sugar instead (orange juice, honey, ripe fruit.) Starch reduction lowers endotoxins, lowers inflammation and I think makes fat loss much easier. Sugar speeds up the metabolism over time.

 

[raypeatclips]

consider cutting starch and using sugar instead (orange juice, honey, ripe fruit.) Starch reduction lowers endotoxins, lowers inflammation and I think makes fat loss much easier. Sugar speeds up the metabolism over time.

In my experience I never found this, although I've read it on the forums many, many times! Sugar never keeps me satiated, so I end up eating again not long after. A decent sized meal with potatoes or rice keeps me fuller for longer, which means I can more comfortably keep calories lower and don't feel the need to keep eating. Have you noticed yourself that sugar benefits fat loss?