IGF1 : IGFBP3 Ratio As A Predictor Of Male Vertex Balding

Elephanto

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Vertex balding, plasma insulin-like growth factor 1, and insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3. - PubMed - NCBI

Of the 431 men, 128 had vertex balding at age 45. Compared with men who were not balding, for a 1 standard deviation increase in plasma IGF-1 level (72.4 ng/mL), the OR for vertex balding was 1. 31 (95% CI, 0.95-1.81).
For a 1 standard deviation increase in plasma IGFBP-3 (957 ng/mL), the OR for vertex balding was 0.62 (95% CI, 0.44-0.88).

Useful things to take from this + additional informations :

Milk contains IGF-1 but no IGFBP3, thus increasing the ratio of IGF1:IGFBP3 that is predictor of vertex balding.

Growth hormone increases IGF1 and IGFBP3 proportionally. IGFBP3 is a growth hormone-responsive gene.

IGFBP3 restricts growth excess (skull/collagen growth leading to blood constriction and calcification in male balding), and is low in many types of cancer like prostate cancer.

Estrogen and iron reduce IGFBP3.
 

haidut

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Estrogen and iron reduce IGFBP3

Estrogen also directly increases IGF-1. That's why human trials with high-dose DHEA (which is VERY estrogenic) found much higher IGF-1 levels post-supplementation.
 

haidut

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If I remembering correct , ray looks at igf1 as a good hormone.

Where does he say that? The only time I have seen hi spoke favorably about these hormones is in the articles where he says insulin is anabolic for the bone and that it activates the enzyme PDH. But I have not seen any references to IGF-1. Can you please point them out?
 

paymanz

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Where does he say that? The only time I have seen hi spoke favorably about these hormones is in the articles where he says insulin is anabolic for the bone and that it activates the enzyme PDH. But I have not seen any references to IGF-1. Can you please point them out?
maybe im wrong, but if i find it i will post it here.
 

Terma

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Yeah. I can't remember all the posts on this forum but I loosely recall people or someone saying they needed more vitamin A on dairy. Well retinoid acid usually decreases the IGF1:IGFBP3 ratio. Retinoic acid is more or less a growth limiter/cell differentiator in adults in general so you would expect that, but I think IGF1 could be one of the more important mediators. (not sure about vitamin D)
 
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Elephanto

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Yeah. I can't remember all the posts on this forum but I loosely recall people or someone saying they needed more vitamin A on dairy. Well retinoid acid usually decreases the IGF1:IGFBP3 ratio. Retinoic acid is more or less a growth limiter/cell differentiator in adults in general so you would expect that, but I think IGF1 could be one of the more important mediators. (not sure about vitamin D)

True, I wrote about how vitamin A increases IGFBP3 in the hair loss thread. I'll try to find a list I made a while ago of everything that increase IGFBP3.

edit : IGFBP3 is also a growth limiter gene, and so is p53 (tumor-responsive gene). P53 directly increases IGFBP3. So when you find studies that link something to p53, you can safely conclude that it also increases IGFBP3. I think that's the case with retinol. Also, a study shows that saturated fats increase p53 and unsaturated fats decrease it.

@haidut Yes, that's true about estrogen.

@paymanz That would be contradictory to his article on growth hormone. Growth hormone and methionine increase IGF-1, which he both warns against. IGF-1 and GH can't be separated.
 
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paymanz

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yes i was surprised when i read that too , i dont know if it was a quote from him by a forum user or it was somewhere else , but as i said i might miss remembered it.maybe it was something else, i hope i dont misslead someone.

i did a search and only place i can find positive about igf1 was a article by danny roddy,
The Centrality of The Liver in Pattern Baldness: Estrogen, Aspirin, and IGF-1

"Another feature of an impaired liver is a decreased level of insulin-like growth factor 1, or IGF-1. Many things are said about the nature of IGF-1, however, in the context of baldness, it appears to be involved in healthy hair growth.[51] In fact, one paper suggested that IGF-1 was a “promising drug candidate for baldness therapy.”[52] IGF-1 should not be confused with growth hormone; growth hormone tends to rise and fall with the adaptive stress substances, such as prolactin,[53] while IGF-1 decreases with age and during malnutrition.[54,55]

When people talk about IGF-1 as "plug and play cancer fuel" I think the statement is extremely misleading. First, IGF-1 decreases with age and is highest during youth, when cancer is least likely to occur. Supplemental estrogen significantly decreases the liver's production of IGF-1.[56] Speaking of cancer... Estrogens are among the best known of the growth stimulants,[57] tend to increase with age in both sexes,[58,59] and promote Warburg's cancer metabolism (i.e., aerobic glycolysis).[60] Thyroid works in the opposite direction (thanks Haidut).[61]"

but i will search more.yes, danny roddy is not ray peat!
 
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Elephanto

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yes i was surprised when i read that too , i dont know if it was a quote from him by a forum user or it was somewhere else , but as i said i might miss remembered it.maybe it was something else, i hope i dont misslead someone.

i did a search and only place i can find positive about igf1 was a article by danny roddy,
The Centrality of The Liver in Pattern Baldness: Estrogen, Aspirin, and IGF-1

"Another feature of an impaired liver is a decreased level of insulin-like growth factor 1, or IGF-1. Many things are said about the nature of IGF-1, however, in the context of baldness, it appears to be involved in healthy hair growth.[51] In fact, one paper suggested that IGF-1 was a “promising drug candidate for baldness therapy.”[52] IGF-1 should not be confused with growth hormone; growth hormone tends to rise and fall with the adaptive stress substances, such as prolactin,[53] while IGF-1 decreases with age and during malnutrition.[54,55]

When people talk about IGF-1 as "plug and play cancer fuel" I think the statement is extremely misleading. First, IGF-1 decreases with age and is highest during youth, when cancer is least likely to occur. Supplemental estrogen significantly decreases the liver's production of IGF-1.[56] Speaking of cancer... Estrogens are among the best known of the growth stimulants,[57] tend to increase with age in both sexes,[58,59] and promote Warburg's cancer metabolism (i.e., aerobic glycolysis).[60] Thyroid works in the opposite direction (thanks Haidut).[61]"

but i will search more.yes, danny roddy is not ray peat!

There's so many things wrong with those quotes. How can you not "confuse" igf-1 with growth hormone, when growth hormone literally triggers IGF-1. Then he makes so many false assumptions, like saying that igf-1 being high in youth means it doesn't promote cancer. No, it's because igfbp3 which restricts growth and is beneficial is also very high and tumors are allowed to grow when it lowers, you'll never see him mention IGFBP3 though. Cancer is also an "extreme", bald men lost their hair in their 20's but are still more likely to get prostate cancer 20 years later so all kinds of things may happen to you before it's actually cancer. The study of this thread also shows that igf-1 is higher in balding men, so taking a study which applies IGF-1 topically on hair follicles isn't the same as the internal levels of IGF-1, which drives the processes of calcification. He's really an expert on assumptions based on incomplete science.

Another thing. He explains hair loss as an energy production problem, and makes articles that explains how diabetes work. The thing is that this theory doesn't explain the "horse shoe" pattern of hairline regression, which is because of excess skull growth and angiogenesis, so that the temples are constricted of blood in this pattern first. I can also observe that many diabetics still have good hairlines, and the thing is that their inability to produce insulin is actually a protective factor to skull/collagen growth. Hyperinsulinemia will greatly increase IGF-1. So actually liver problems leading to excessive insulin secretion will end up increasing the igf1:igfbp3 ratio.
 
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peep

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So in gerneral not only for hairloss, how do we increase IGFBP 3?

Keep Estrogen and Iron low? And Vitamin A ?
Or are there other options?

I guess thyroid function plays a big role too.
 

paymanz

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I asked Danny in one of his YouTube videos comment section about his view on igf1 and if he thinks differently than ray, here is his respond:

danny said:
I asked him in May and he said: "I think in general, it's on the reparative, constructive side." RP (2017) Someone else asked him if a person should be concerned with IGF-1in milk and his reply was: "No." I was wrong about TGF-b1 being exclusively bad though; he said it could be one of the stem cell activators.

 
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johnwester130

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could baldness simply be a collagen deficiency, which is also connected to heart disease ? ( there's some studies to show this )

so vitamin c, glycine and lysine rich foods in theory help , and remove plaque from the arteries and put collagen in the right places, instead of your arteries ?
 

paymanz

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could baldness simply be a collagen deficiency, which is also connected to heart disease ? ( there's some studies to show this )

so vitamin c, glycine and lysine rich foods in theory help , and remove plaque from the arteries and put collagen in the right places, instead of your arteries ?
Maybe I'm wrong , but apparently there is 2 type collagen.

In fibrosis you make collagen also , but its not even depend on ascorbic acid.

If you look at bald men's head most of them have a stiff ,rigid skin on frontal area, and skull is so hard too, like its excessively calcified.

There is fibrosis in heart disease also, its like they produce bad type of collagen, without the integrity that it has to have.

Things like Inflammation , serotonin , histamin , stress,uv light promote fibrosis.
And vitamin c is protective against that fibrosis.
 
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johnwester130

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Maybe I'm wrong , but apparently there is 2 type collagen.

In fibrosis you make collagen also , but its not even depend on ascorbic acid.

If you look at bald men's head most of theme they have a stiff ,rigid skin on frontal area, and skull is so hard too, like its excessively calcified.

There is fibrosis in heart disease also, its like they produce bad type of collagen, without the integrity that it has to have.

Things like Inflammation , serotonin , histamin promote fibrosis.
And vitamin c is protective against that fibrosis.

I don't know. but there might be some sort of connection

https://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

Hairloss and vit C - Vitamin C Forum
 

johnwester130

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Topical application perhaps?

topical vitamin c ?

it may work,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/OZ-Naturals-Vitamin-Facial-Serum/dp/B00DPE9EQO

vitamin c can increase progesterone by 77% (study is somewhere online),
and vitamin c can restore the adrenal gland

so it acts on your hormones and collagen production. hair is just keratin, but the fact it also alters hormonal levels makes it very interesting.

camu camu goes well with fruit juice, just remember to get the light pink version, the dark brown stuff is inedible
 

Peater Piper

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Pretty interesting. I've never had my IGFBP3 tested, but my IGF-1 is at the very top of the range, and I was completely bald by 30.
 
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