If You've Had Cancer, What Do You Think Causes Cancer?

[GreenTrails]

I realized I did not eat enough calcium once I began studying Peat. Now, I love it.
But I love drinking 2% grass milk. It's fattening, but I feel great eating more dairy.
I don't eat any salads other than shredded and rinsed carrot salad.

Thanks, Regina. I do use organic half and half in my diet. If I could find cottage cheese without additives, I would eat that. I do eat cheddar cheese. The carrot salad I have eaten, and it is good.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I came up with this because no one here could point out to me WHY we are going hypo. The answer is always stress (which no one ever defines).

Well, another issue is the dramatic increase in PUFA. Look at the explosion of so called "Vegetable" Oils, as compared to butter and lard. Coconut Oil isn't driving that growth, either, it's mostly soy.

 

[Ableton]

Well, another issue is the dramatic increase in PUFA. Look at the explosion of so called "Vegetable" Oils, as compared to butter and lard. Coconut Oil isn't driving that growth, either, it's mostly soy.
View attachment 19827

yeah and I suppose thats carcinogenic or is it not?

 

[GreenTrails]

I have had this theory that hypothyroidism is our bodies performing a chemo light on us so that we do not get cancer despite our carcinogenic environment.
Catabolism through hypothYroidism = starvation, anti cancer
Anabolism = growth, cancer

increased dna methylation (anabolism) = you stay young/ age well but are at an increased cancer risk because every attemt to rejuvenate your dna is a cancer risk.

decreased methylation = you age fast but are at an decreased cancer risk.

I came up with this because no one here could point out to me WHY we are going hypo. The answer is always stress (which no one ever defines). But what would happen if our thyroids were working despite that? Would we „burn out“? Not if we ate 6000 calories surely, or whatever it takes. Are 6000 cals a sure way to reverse hypothyroidism? No. Our bodies sometimes want us to stay hypo despite having all the fuel it needs. Could hypothyroidism be a natural chemo to keep cancer at bay (aka the stress is carcinogenics). In my opinion. This renders hypothyroidism a protective response though, and not a disease.

keep in mind that this is only a wild theory of mine that i presented In the hair loss forum which no one ever refuted, and that I have not read close to as much as most people here.

since we are on a forum deficated to improving thyroid function:
Did you increase your thyroid function drastically?
Do you look young for your age?
Do you permanently eat, keeping you in an anabolic state?

i think cancer can be extremely counter intuitive because healthy looking, anabolic people are more at risk than starving, fragile ones. Those have other health issues and worse quality of life of course

nvm just read that you do not eat much, so its likely not the problem

Ableton: I think your theory sounds interesting and reasonable. I've been taking Nature-throid, and now NP thyroid 90 mg. I also took DHEA, and at one time I took Adrenogen for over a year or more. I do not take either of those supplements now, nor do I take any hormones.

 

[GreenTrails]

Well, another issue is the dramatic increase in PUFA. Look at the explosion of so called "Vegetable" Oils, as compared to butter and lard. Coconut Oil isn't driving that growth, either, it's mostly soy.
View attachment 19827

During those years, we were told that vegetable oils were good for us and that margarine was better for us than butter. Now I eat grass-fed butter, tallow, and animal fats. But for several years my diet did contain those PUFAs.

 

[Ableton]

Ableton: I think your theory sounds interesting and reasonable. I've been taking Nature-throid, and now NP thyroid 90 mg. I also took DHEA, and at one time I took Adrenogen for over a year or more. I do not take either of those supplements now, nor do I take any hormones.

Yeah if there is any truth to my theory artificially boosting metabolism that naturally wants to stay catabolic to keep cancer at bay would be able to cause cancer
I’m nowhere near an expert though. Maybe ask in other forums what people think about this

 

[GreenTrails]

Sorry about this news. One thing to look into is Iodine, I remember reading of people having their fibrosis go away. Also, can't find the exact source but I remember someone exploring the correlation between average iodine content in the diet and breast cancer incidence. For example, Japan, if I recall is the one with highest iodine intake and low breast cancer indicence. According to this study, it is 3 times more frequent in the US. Is Breast Cancer the Same Disease in Asian and Western Countries?

More anecdotally, a girlfriend who had beginnings of fibrosis, had her breasts pain when taking iodine. After some months they stopped paining, and she had no fibrosis. (She also took magnesium around the same time.)

Thanks, alephx. I do take Lugol's iodine. I think it's definitely good for breast health.

 

[tankasnowgod]

yeah and I suppose thats carcinogenic or is it not?

Did you ever read Haidut's Summary of PUFA?

Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

"OK, I will just summarize what I have seen/read and combine with what I have gotten from Peat.

1. The argument for PUFA being essential is not only wrong, it is misguided. While Peat does cite an old study, I have posted several threads on this forum showing that as recently as 1990s there were studies saying that PUFA is at best semi-essential and its daily dietary "requirements" come down to no more than 0.5% of calories. So, at the very least we have an upper bound on how essential PUFA is - i.e. if you are eating more than 1g-2g of PUFA daily at best you are not getting any benefit and at worse you are increasing the risk of cancer.

2. PUFA and its derivative eicosanoids and leukotrienes, are the major pathway to inflammation. Peat has written that his view is quite contrary to the medical dogma in the sense that he does not think there is a "healthy" level of inflammation. As far as I can see from his articles, and he is pretty explicit on this one, he thinks the lower the inflammation the healthier the organism. As such, restricting PUFA (and depleting iron, tryptophan, etc) is perhaps THE definitive approach to controlling inflammation rather than rely on later factors in the cascade such as taking aspirin to combat inflammation. The eicosanoids/leukotrienes are the major trigger of histamine/serotonin synthesis and release and without them, histamine and serotonin become a much smaller burden on the organism.

3. PUFA directly inhibit cytochrome C oxidase, unlike SFA and MUFA. In addition, PUFA are directly estrogenic by activating aromatase, again, unlike MUFA and SFA.

4. PUFA are a major inhibitor of the protective steroid pathways, especially 5-AR, but at the same time are activators of 11b-hydroxylase and aldosterone synthase. So, PUFA tend to shift the steroid pathway towards the end products cortisol, estrogen and aldosterone.

5. PUFA activate TPH, which synthesizes serotonin from tryptophan. As such, PUFA are a major metabolic inhibitor. Combined with the fact that they also promote estrogen and cortisol I am not sure there is another substance that can rival PUFA in terms of metabolism inhibition with the possible exception of ionizing radiation, which mimics PUFA effects on the body remarkably well. So, maybe the next time somebody wants to make an argument in favor of PUFA, try to think of a way to frame radiation in a positive light. If you can give me an argument for radiation, then I will listen to the argument in favor of PUFA.

6. Animals depleted in PUFA have uncoupled respiration and their metabolism and their oxygen consumption is about 70% higher than "normal" animals. The same effect was observed with people who got accidentally depleted in PUFA. You may argue for PUFA all you want, but even mainstream medicine wisened up to the fact that uncouplers are a viable treatment of several (maybe all) degenerative diseases. Go to http://www.clinicaltrials.gov and search for "uncoupler" or "uncoupling" and you will see for yourself. So, if having super fast metabolism is viable treatment for many diseases of old age and maybe aging itself then why on Earth would anybody want to consume a well-known metabolic inhibitor.

7. PUFA are immunosuppressive. This is such common knowledge that there are even several established products on the medical market based on a combination of linoleic and linolenic acid that is given IV to organ transplant patients. As far as I know the daily dose is 20g, and even though it is given IV the effects from oral intake are very similar. This should not come as a surprise given how much PUFA boosts cortisol production. Anything that suppresses your immune system chronically is likely to result in cancer in the long run.

8. PUFA is one of the main inhibitors of endogenous cholesterol synthesis. In fact, to this day this is one of their main selling point, especially the EPA/DHA kind. Anything that suppresses your cholesterol synthesis increases the risk of cancer. Statins are major carcinogen, not to mention their link to diseases like ALS and other muscular distrophies. If statins and PUFA work similarly on cholesterol and muscle then I am not sure what person in their right mind would want to load up on PUFA given the several class action lawsuits against statins and their connection to ALS, dementia, liver failure, etc.

9. PUFA is insanely hepatotoxic. I must have posted at least 10 studies on this one. Saturated fat is so far the only known substance shown to reverse chirrosis in both humans and animals. High dose vitamin K2 (MK-4) and caffeine have similar effects but probably can't fully match effects of saturated fat on fibrotic tissue. Not even acetaminophen comes close to the toxicity of PUFA to things like cytochrome P450 and glutathione reserves.

Finally, if you have read enough studies, and especially if you have worked with some sick people to see what got them better and what got them worse, then you should have enough information to decide if you want to deplete PUFA or not. Experiment is the ultimate arbiter and no amount of bickering and arguments and studies will make a difference. So, for anybody who wants to finally clear up any doubts on whether Peat is right about his stuff or not - in as little as 3-4 weeks of low fat diet, you can find out for yourself and then no amount of arguments from me or anybody else would matter."

 

[Ableton]

Did you ever read Haidut's Summary of PUFA?

Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

"OK, I will just summarize what I have seen/read and combine with what I have gotten from Peat.

1. The argument for PUFA being essential is not only wrong, it is misguided. While Peat does cite an old study, I have posted several threads on this forum showing that as recently as 1990s there were studies saying that PUFA is at best semi-essential and its daily dietary "requirements" come down to no more than 0.5% of calories. So, at the very least we have an upper bound on how essential PUFA is - i.e. if you are eating more than 1g-2g of PUFA daily at best you are not getting any benefit and at worse you are increasing the risk of cancer.

2. PUFA and its derivative eicosanoids and leukotrienes, are the major pathway to inflammation. Peat has written that his view is quite contrary to the medical dogma in the sense that he does not think there is a "healthy" level of inflammation. As far as I can see from his articles, and he is pretty explicit on this one, he thinks the lower the inflammation the healthier the organism. As such, restricting PUFA (and depleting iron, tryptophan, etc) is perhaps THE definitive approach to controlling inflammation rather than rely on later factors in the cascade such as taking aspirin to combat inflammation. The eicosanoids/leukotrienes are the major trigger of histamine/serotonin synthesis and release and without them, histamine and serotonin become a much smaller burden on the organism.

3. PUFA directly inhibit cytochrome C oxidase, unlike SFA and MUFA. In addition, PUFA are directly estrogenic by activating aromatase, again, unlike MUFA and SFA.

4. PUFA are a major inhibitor of the protective steroid pathways, especially 5-AR, but at the same time are activators of 11b-hydroxylase and aldosterone synthase. So, PUFA tend to shift the steroid pathway towards the end products cortisol, estrogen and aldosterone.

5. PUFA activate TPH, which synthesizes serotonin from tryptophan. As such, PUFA are a major metabolic inhibitor. Combined with the fact that they also promote estrogen and cortisol I am not sure there is another substance that can rival PUFA in terms of metabolism inhibition with the possible exception of ionizing radiation, which mimics PUFA effects on the body remarkably well. So, maybe the next time somebody wants to make an argument in favor of PUFA, try to think of a way to frame radiation in a positive light. If you can give me an argument for radiation, then I will listen to the argument in favor of PUFA.

6. Animals depleted in PUFA have uncoupled respiration and their metabolism and their oxygen consumption is about 70% higher than "normal" animals. The same effect was observed with people who got accidentally depleted in PUFA. You may argue for PUFA all you want, but even mainstream medicine wisened up to the fact that uncouplers are a viable treatment of several (maybe all) degenerative diseases. Go to http://www.clinicaltrials.gov and search for "uncoupler" or "uncoupling" and you will see for yourself. So, if having super fast metabolism is viable treatment for many diseases of old age and maybe aging itself then why on Earth would anybody want to consume a well-known metabolic inhibitor.

7. PUFA are immunosuppressive. This is such common knowledge that there are even several established products on the medical market based on a combination of linoleic and linolenic acid that is given IV to organ transplant patients. As far as I know the daily dose is 20g, and even though it is given IV the effects from oral intake are very similar. This should not come as a surprise given how much PUFA boosts cortisol production. Anything that suppresses your immune system chronically is likely to result in cancer in the long run.

8. PUFA is one of the main inhibitors of endogenous cholesterol synthesis. In fact, to this day this is one of their main selling point, especially the EPA/DHA kind. Anything that suppresses your cholesterol synthesis increases the risk of cancer. Statins are major carcinogen, not to mention their link to diseases like ALS and other muscular distrophies. If statins and PUFA work similarly on cholesterol and muscle then I am not sure what person in their right mind would want to load up on PUFA given the several class action lawsuits against statins and their connection to ALS, dementia, liver failure, etc.

9. PUFA is insanely hepatotoxic. I must have posted at least 10 studies on this one. Saturated fat is so far the only known substance shown to reverse chirrosis in both humans and animals. High dose vitamin K2 (MK-4) and caffeine have similar effects but probably can't fully match effects of saturated fat on fibrotic tissue. Not even acetaminophen comes close to the toxicity of PUFA to things like cytochrome P450 and glutathione reserves.

Finally, if you have read enough studies, and especially if you have worked with some sick people to see what got them better and what got them worse, then you should have enough information to decide if you want to deplete PUFA or not. Experiment is the ultimate arbiter and no amount of bickering and arguments and studies will make a difference. So, for anybody who wants to finally clear up any doubts on whether Peat is right about his stuff or not - in as little as 3-4 weeks of low fat diet, you can find out for yourself and then no amount of arguments from me or anybody else would matter."

Im just wondering why you said its „another issue“ when it is the same issue I presented.

my theory is probably very oversimplified but i will make a thread about it in the future so some high iq ppl can refute it

basically my theory would just render everything down to the balance of anabolism and catabolism, keeping in mind that cancer is our n 1 evolutionary threat right now and keeping in mind environment

Everything else, includinzhypothyroidism, Is just a response

every stress comes down to carcinogenous properties that require our body to start this lifeless cascade to keep us alive

 

[tankasnowgod]

Im just wondering why you said its „another issue“ when it is the same issue I presented.

Look at the sentence of yours I was responding to. You said that no one could point out "why we are going hypo." Well, there's a lot more factors than just stress, I was just pointing out that massive increasing consumption of PUFA, even as compared to people 40 or 50 years ago, could be a major reason for that. Considering PUFA is a well known metabolic inhibitor, and increase of hypothyroidism in a population eating an increasing amount of PUFA should be an expected outcome.

 

[Ableton]

Look at the sentence of yours I was responding to. You said that no one could point out "why we are going hypo." Well, there's a lot more factors than just stress, I was just pointing out that massive increasing consumption of PUFA, even as compared to people 40 or 50 years ago, could be a major reason for that. Considering PUFA is a well known metabolic inhibitor, and increase of hypothyroidism in a population eating an increasing amount of PUFA should be an expected outcome.

but you are again not going to the core of why it inhibts metabolism when at the same time it gives your body fuel to run at a high rate. Pufa has calories after all

this forums claim is that a substance like pufa is a stressor because as a chemical property it DIRECTLY inhibits the chemical functioning of thyroid or whatever

my counterclaim to that would be pufa is carcinogenic, and thus indirectly lowers metabolism, because our metabolism wants to keep cancer at bay, which pufa and other carcinogens cause in an anabolic, non-hypothyroid state cause. It could run high, it has enough fuel for that (evidence by the fact that 10k cal high nutrient diets are not a fool proof way to reverse hypo) but if it actually did, we would get cancer, because pufa is there. So it introduces catabolism in presence of enough fuel. Its a natural chemo therapy.

this makes hypo a response, and pufa or any other stressor (again no definition by your part) nothing but a carcinogenic (which again could be an indirect carcinogenic)

Thats the point of my theory.
Anabolism is growth (in a literal sence) but ultimately leads to cancer (which ends 30% of our lives). Catabolism is hypothyroidism, starvation (not just physically), but no cancer.
Evolutionary response to death threats is always survival, we are taught at least. Survival at expense of a high metabolism in this case

 

[lampofred]

but you are again not going to the core of why it inhibts metabolism when at the same time it gives your body fuel to run at a high rate. Pufa has calories after all

this forums claim is that a substance like pufa is a stressor because as a chemical property it DIRECTLY inhibits the chemical functioning of thyroid or whatever

my counterclaim to that would be pufa is carcinogenic, and thus indirectly lowers metabolism, because our metabolism wants to keep cancer at bay, which pufa and other carcinogens cause. It could run high, it has enough fuel for that (evidence by the fact that 10k cal high nutrient diets are not a fool proof way to reverse hypo) but if it actually did, we would get cancer, because pufa is there. So it introduces catabolism in presence of enough fuel. Its a natural chemo therapy.

this makes hypo a response, and pufa or any other stressor (again no definition by your part) nothing but a carcinogenic (which again could be an indirect carcinogenic)

Thats the point of my theory.
Anabolism is growth (in a literal sence) but ultimately leads to cancer (which ends 30% of our lives). Catabolism is hypothyroidism, starvation (not just physically), but no cancer.
Evolutionary response to death threats is always survival, we are taught at least.

Interesting theory, another way to look at it could be that since PUFA spoils quickly at higher temperatures, hypothyroidism is a protective cooling down.

 

[Michael Mohn]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your cancer. I had no diagnosis but my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer when she was 56 years old. She had the tumour removed surgically and then radiation therapy. One year later she had massive back pain and was diagnosed with bone & brain cancer. After 2 years of several rounds of chemotherapy she was dead. She had Hirtuism (facial hair, female mustach) and PMS and several nervous breakdowns in her life. She was hypo and had a very high serotonin personality. She also had an abortion. I think this was probably the strongest factor for her cancer. She was hiding it her entire life and confessed it only on her death bed. Avoiding estrogenic factors like pufa and hormones and chronic stress are probably the most important steps.

 

[Ableton]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your cancer. I had no diagnosis but my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer when she was 56 years old. She had the tumour removed surgically and then radiation therapy. One year later she had massive back pain and was diagnosed with bone & brain cancer. After 2 years of several rounds of chemotherapy she was dead. She had Hirtuism (facial hair, female mustach) and PMS and several nervous breakdowns in her life. She was hypo and had a very high serotonin personality. She also had an abortion. I think this was probably the strongest factor for her cancer. She was hiding it her entire life and confessed it only on her death bed. Avoiding estrogenic factors like pufa and hormones and chronic stress is probably the most important steps.

My mom who died of breast cancer as well also had unresolved emotional trauma and was on ssris, just adding to this. She was also smoking and drinking though

 

[Regina]

Thanks, alephx. I do take Lugol's iodine. I think it's definitely good for breast health.

I think iodine supplementation is anti-Peat. Can you eat shellfish instead? Shrimps and crabs?
And eating enough protein is required for the liver to clear estrogen.
The problem with DHEA supplementation (as put forth in the forum) is the excessive dose.
I think Dr. Peat recommends a MAXIMUM of 5mg to avoid it converting to estrogen.
My friends who have been diagnosed DHEA, it is typically at 25mg doses; so it's like supplementing even more estrogen.

I think we forgot to mention that cooked mushrooms are natural aromatase inhibitors.

 

[tankasnowgod]

my counterclaim to that would be pufa is carcinogenic, and thus indirectly lowers metabolism, because our metabolism wants to keep cancer at bay, which pufa and other carcinogens cause in an anabolic, non-hypothyroid state cause. It could run high, it has enough fuel for that (evidence by the fact that 10k cal high nutrient diets are not a fool proof way to reverse hypo) but if it actually did, we would get cancer, because pufa is there. So it introduces catabolism in presence of enough fuel. Its a natural chemo therapy.

Now you are just molding the evidence to fit your hypothesis, without anything to back you up. I was initially responding to your idea that no one offered any explanation for hypothyroidism other than stress, and I offered at least one dietary factor. Rather than this explanation, I am of the belief that PUFA's directly lower metabolism, and this effect is in no way protective of cancer, in fact, it seems to be causal.

If you are really serious about this idea, I suggest you look up some studies that can support your idea, and create a new thread on the forum.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your cancer. I had no diagnosis but my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer when she was 56 years old. She had the tumour removed surgically and then radiation therapy. One year later she had massive back pain and was diagnosed with bone & brain cancer. After 2 years of several rounds of chemotherapy she was dead. She had Hirtuism (facial hair, female mustach) and PMS and several nervous breakdowns in her life. She was hypo and had a very high serotonin personality. She also had an abortion. I think this was probably the strongest factor for her cancer. She was hiding it her entire life and confessed it only on her death bed. Avoiding estrogenic factors like pufa and hormones and chronic stress are probably the most important steps.

How does abortion causes cancer? The medications?

 

[Inaut]

I think I've mentioned this before but I think D-limonene should be used for any type of cancer, especially effective for breast cancer as it has an affinity for fatty tissues.

 

[Maljam]

I came up with this because no one here could point out to me WHY we are going hypo. The answer is always stress (which no one ever defines).

Probably nobody has defined it because it is such a broad concept, but it isn't too hard to work out. Your theory doesn't make sense to me, for example aging faster but having less risk of cancer seems entirely contradictory. I also think you are overthinking it.

Anything that harms the system I consider a stress. Increased PUFA in comparison to saturated fat, chronically undereating, obesity, radiation/wifi, nutrient deficiencies including lack of light, the societal move towards less nutrient dense foods such as the propaganda against eating eggs, working depressing jobs with no meaning, unresolved emotions, lack of life goals or ambition, drug use, overexercising, underexercising, plastic pollution, excess of specific vitamins (fortification = iron), lack of iodine in foods.

I think the body can handle a lot of stress and stress is even beneficial, however I think an excess of stress can push the body over the limit of what it can handle. Just from my list above it is easy to see how modern society sets us up to be over the threshold of stress that is healthy. Just one of those can be damaging, so the whole list together it's no surprise to see the state of health on the decline.

Knowing this though we can change our lives to stop all of these, in a similar fashion changing one of them, for example eating more saturated fat than PUFA, will cause a person to be more robust.

 

[Ableton]

Now you are just molding the evidence to fit your hypothesis, without anything to back you up. I was initially responding to your idea that no one offered any explanation for hypothyroidism other than stress, and I offered at least one dietary factor. Rather than this explanation, I am of the belief that PUFA's directly lower metabolism, and this effect is in no way protective of cancer, in fact, it seems to be causal.

If you are really serious about this idea, I suggest you look up some studies that can support your idea, and create a new thread on the forum.

I will when I’m better rested. See, this is in many ways foremost a language game, but theory is formed not only in labs, but also in language. In this forum, and potentially peats articles (will have to read up on that), concepts like „stress“ are just used to vaguely as far as I’m concerned

Probably nobody has defined it because it is such a broad concept, but it isn't too hard to work out. Your theory doesn't make sense to me, for example aging faster but having less risk of cancer seems entirely contradictory. I also think you are overthinking it.

Anything that harms the system I consider a stress. Increased PUFA in comparison to saturated fat, chronically undereating, obesity, radiation/wifi, nutrient deficiencies including lack of light, the societal move towards less nutrient dense foods such as the propaganda against eating eggs, working depressing jobs with no meaning, unresolved emotions, lack of life goals or ambition, drug use, overexercising, underexercising, plastic pollution, excess of specific vitamins (fortification = iron), lack of iodine in foods.

I think the body can handle a lot of stress and stress is even beneficial, however I think an excess of stress can push the body over the limit of what it can handle. Just from my list above it is easy to see how modern society sets us up to be over the threshold of stress that is healthy. Just one of those can be damaging, so the whole list together it's no surprise to see the state of health on the decline.

Knowing this though we can change our lives to stop all of these, in a similar fashion changing one of them, for example eating more saturated fat than PUFA, will cause a person to be more robust.

same problem. You have to define by what mechanism the stress becomes a stress or harms the system.
I say it does so by being carcinogenic directly or indirectly, damaging dna.
The word stress is a cop out on this forum when it does not know whats really going on. Our bodies do not care that we came up with the concept of stress. Its too broad a concept to explain anything thats going on in us.

are you doubting methylation are attempts to rejuvenate dna, that rejuvenating dna keeps you young, and that every attempt to rejuvenate is a cancer risk.

elaborate


This forum when it uses stress:
Circular reasoning - Wikipedia