If You're Sedentery You Will Have A Slow Metabolism

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Ok, but now we once again get into the age old debate of: does being overweight automatically mean you are unhealthy relative to your lean counterparts? To which I say absolutely not. The other age old debate is: get rid of fat, restore health. Both assumptions are false. Is that natural state of a healthy metabolism a pretty lean body? Yes, I do think so. But "forcing" it against your bodys will is NOT the answer. It should happen "naturally". Modern fitness culture is absolutely obsessed with forcing weight loss at all costs. Fasting, caloric restriction, carb restriction, insane workout routines, excess stimulants, etc etc...

I realized this after I eliminated my life long depression, despite being obese compared to super lean now. I was nearly suicidal level depressed very frequently when younger, despite being extremely healthy weights.

In fact, user tyw said that weight has almost nothing to do with overall health, I'm not sure I'd go that far, but it's very possible for the overweight person to have way better co2 and t3 levels than the lean person. The lean person having waking temps of 95-96F temps due to "athletic" status, but the fat person having temps 98F+. In fact I can sometimes achieve euthyroid 98.4F+ waking temps despite being obese, whereas when I was lean I was in the 96F temps and felt VERY bad. User ilikecats is one of the healthier people on these forums while being very overweight. He said before I presume he left the forum (I haven't seen him post a while) due to fixing his health, he found no reason to post anymore, that he basically lived in a constant state of euphoria his health was now so good. And I am pretty sure he doesn't exercise, at all. It's all chemicals and hormones. Fix those, fix your CO2 levels, fix your T3 levels, and all is well. I'll be fair though and say that In some cases exercise might assist in fixing chemicals/hormones but I don't believe its required.

So you wouldn't recommend a bedridden, sick, dying, low-energy person to try and get their energy up + exercise? I didn't say you couldn't be healthy without exercising -- I'm saying exercise can play a part in health changes somewhat. Even though I may have hurt my system somewhat from exercising so much in the past, all of that past activity carries on epigentically in a sense. Without any exercise history I don't think I'd have made biological markers as I have now (fitness/muscle memory; etc.).

Exercise has an ATP + mitochondrial + epigenetic + mental effect on people, which is why it can play a role in health to some degree. I'm not saying its magic, but it can help in various cases. Just not doing much of anything physical because of inefficient C02 or thyroid or low energy doesn't seem ideal to me. I realized I pushed too hard after the fact, but that now allows me to go back in a smarter way rather than a reckless one -- or become inactive. Exercise crashed me due to excess, but I don't fear it -- now I know I have to be smarter about it to utilize it better to my health/advantage. I agree with the obsession with being lean at any expense, but simply feeling good doesn't mean healthy always, does it? I mean I felt pretty good when I was nearly morbidly obese and PUFA-driven for some time. Should I start gaining 100 lbs. again and eating tons of honey buns, cookies, hot pockets, vegetable oils, and Burger King every day to bring back that experience of calmness and low stress of the past?

I get where you're coming from, but I can't reason with the idea that exercise shouldn't be considered a serious tool to improve health on some level, even in unhealthy. Exercise forces you to adapt and makes a whole chain reaction of changes. Maybe healthier people get by with little/no exercise if all is ideal, but that doesn't mean exercise can't be a slight bonus for those less healthy in some way (or that healthy people shouldn't exercise much if they're pretty healthy despite not exercising).

I also associate extreme inactivity with death. Lots of older people start getting slower/less active/less motivated/etc. In my view this doesn't sound like it comes from a place of health/ease, but of decay/slow decline they give in to on some level. Older people lots of times become: overweight (yes, PUFA is often the culprit/big player); slower/weaker (lack of exercise plays a role here somewhat); less mentally stimulated/motivated (they withdraw socially/have mental decline/don't get out much anymore or learn or etc.). It to me gives the impression that as they get older, lots of people start throwing in the towel and care less about movement, diet, etc. -- and then death consumes them sooner or later. Not saying you can outrun/lift death, but I get the feeling that you can at least fight it until it can be avoided by way of exercise/diet/etc.

There is also a study that shows/links grip strength with heart survival/heart strength. People who exercise tend to have stronger grips. If stronger bodies/muscle helps with heart health, clearly it can play a role in health somewhat if those who don't exercise maybe wouldn't have reaped these possible benefits.
 
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Cirion

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So you wouldn't recommend a bedridden, sick, dying, low-energy person to try and get their energy up + exercise? I didn't say you couldn't be healthy without exercising -- I'm saying exercise can play a part in health somewhat. Even though I may have hurt my system somewhat from exercising so much in the past, all of that past activity carries on epigentically in a sense. Without any exercise history I don't think I'd have made biological markers as I have now (fitness ability; muscle memory; etc.).

Exercise has an ATP + mitochondrial + epigenetic + mental effect on people, which is why it can play a role in health to some degree. I'm not saying its magic, but it can help in various cases. Just not doing much of anything physical because of inefficient C02 or thyroid or low energy doesn't seem ideal to me. I realized I pushed too hard after the fact, but that now allows me to go back in a smarter way rather than a reckless one. Exercise crashed me due to excess, but I don't fear it -- now I know I have to be smarter about it to utilize it better to my health/advantage. I agree with the obsession with being lean at any expense, but simply feeling good doesn't mean healthy always, does it? I mean I felt pretty good when I was nearly morbidly obese and PUFA-driven for some time. Should I start gaining 100 lbs. again and eating tons of honey buns, cookies, hot pockets, vegetable oils, and Burger King every day to bring back that experience of calmness and low stress?

I get where you're coming from, but I can't reason with the idea that exercise shouldn't be considered a serious tool to improve health on some level, even in unhealthy.

I would definitely get that bedridden person up enough in energy enough to where they can do something. But just forcing them to move in-and-of-itself simply will not increase their energy (well it might, but via stress hormones and lactic acid and not from T3/CO2). There's a reason they are bedridden and sick and its because of low energy not because of not moving enough! They should indeed fix their metabolic rate to where they have energy to not be bedridden, I definitely agree.

I can't think of a single time that exercise benefitted me when I did NOT want to do it (aka low energy) every attempt to FORCE it has failed and tanked my metabolic rate.

Basically, the bedridden person is a classic "Chicken or the egg" argument. Proponents of exercise claim the lack of activity caused the problem and forced activity will fix it when the real problem is simply energy. Sure exercise will increase energy in the period of time you're exercising, but after that T3 tends to get downregulated as an adaptation.

Feeling good does mean healthy if its the "clean" type of feeling good, especially if one feels well rested and waking up to euthyroid 98.4F+ waking temp each and every morning (marker of perfect metabolic rate).

No, one should not strive to gain weight. I already stated that the ideal body is indeed a lean body, but that will only be achieved over dedication to a good metabolic rate and lowering stress each and every day.

You won't even feel good with all that junk food anyway lol. I know I don't. That kind of food bloats me and demolishes my waking temps. Ok it feels good maybe in the 15 mins eating it but after I feel gross and bad.

It's possible I am jaded because I come from history of over-exercising. But a few weeks ago I attempted to bike ride for only FIVE MINUTES, and that's all it took to crush my metabolic rate the whole rest of the day.

See, the issue is that severely hypo-metabolic individuals produces lactic acid AT REST. How much more lactic acid do you think they produce with activity? A lot, that's what.
 

lampofred

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I view overall level of fatness as a gauge of stress that that person has built up. Stress must be reduced, it is the only sustainable long term-answer. The vast majority of people use stress to lose weight, which is a mistake. It's easy to look at fat people and think they're lazy or gluttonous, but it's simply not the case. If you look into their lives you find the real answer is they have constant stress in their job, personal life, lack of sleep lack of sunlight all this matters. "Just get rid of the fat" is just not the answer and is far too simplistic of an approach.

And stress is identical to low blood sugar. Exercise powerfully lowers blood sugar, so it is doing the exact opposite of fixing obesity in the long-run. Mild walking and weight-lifting can help in an indirect way because they stimulate the intestine and lower cortisol, but the way most people approach exercise - as a way to burn calories - is 180 degrees in the wrong direction IMO.

I think there are two steps to fixing obesity:
1) keep blood sugar high
2) adapt to hypoxia

Exercise does the opposite of both.
 

redsun

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In fact, user tyw said that weight has almost nothing to do with overall health,

If we consider Peat's stance that almost everything that goes wrong with the body is caused by increase in FFA(which is PUFA also) then weight has a pretty big role in overall health then since more fat tissue especially in the gut area increases FFA into the liver. Thats definitely not the only one, as you can be lean and have near hypothermia temperatures which means a severe internal problem affecting heat production like anemia or nutrient deficiencies which can make you hypothyroid.
 

Cirion

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If we consider Peat's stance that almost everything that goes wrong with the body is caused by increase in FFA(which is PUFA also) then weight has a pretty big role in overall health then since more fat tissue especially in the gut area increases FFA into the liver. Thats definitely not the only one, as you can be lean and have near hypothermia temperatures which means a severe internal problem affecting heat production like anemia or nutrient deficiencies which can make you hypothyroid.

yeah agreed. That's why I don't totally agree with tyw's post there, but I get what he was trying to say with it (like what you just said with your last sentence). As we both know, having higher body fat increases FFA/FAO and that's definitely bad. Lactic acid production is also way higher.

No one, including myself, is saying being fat is a good long-term solution and yes , the goal should eventually include taking it off, but in a healthy manner.

I dislike being fat, and yes, I track my weight regularly, and eat and live accordingly to bring my fat DOWN not up -- but in a healthy and sustainable manner.

Your body is not stupid. It's giving you low energy signals so you don't spend more!! Fighting your body's natural inclinations is completely un-wise. Your brain will tell you when being active will be beneficial:

Brain: "I'm tired."
You: "Too bad, we're working out"
--> This is when exercise is bad.

Brain: "Hey I feel kinda good today. let's do something."
You: "Sounds good... let's go for a nice stroll in the park!"
--> This is when exercise is good for you.

The latter scenario is when exercise DOES provide some benefit.

We have lost touch of our bodies. We force food our body doesn't want down our gut. We force activity our body doesn't want. And wonder why we're broken.

People have stopped caring for their bodies. We abuse it each and every day. We have to take care of it.

99% of people focus on the exterior appearance (body fat) and forget to actually care for the body (reduce stress). You care for the body (reduce stress) and it'll do what you want (reduce body fat). WE like to "punish" our bodies for not doing what we want, like a dictator, by withholding food (fasting), forcing labor (exercise it doesn't want), and whipping it into shape this way.
 
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Vitamin E, Taurine, zinc, selenium are protective IIRC (I’m not 100% sure about the latter two). I don’t think you can totally negate the damage.
Those would be great ways to control PUFA damage.

I would add a source of manganese, since the enzyme superoxide dismutase depends on manganese. Fructose can stimulate this enzyme, so eating lots of fruit, honey or sugar could be useful.
 
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Some people maybe able to sustain a healthy metabolism in that range, but for many people getting too far below 20% might be too lean for optimal health, especially many women.
I was thinking more about men when I wrote that, I should have specified. Anecdotally, the women in my family who are very lean, particularly the older ones, all have some serious conditions, such as diabetes, dementia and hypothermia/cold intolerance. My grandma has avoided conditions like that, and she's not lean, but isn't overweight either.
 

Birdie

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What protects against damage when depleting/burning PUFAs? Or is there a way to deplete without them being burnt up? How good is the protection?
Aspirin and niacinamide are some RP recommendations. My sister uses a lot of aspirin. I am adding niacinamide slowly.

I used to take it at bedtime and have found out, thanks Mittir, that it's better taken with a fatty meal.
I am starting with about 50 mg twice a day. We'll see if I can slowly go to 100 twice a day. I'm doing 50 with breakfast and 50 early evening.

What got me interested was that I was awakening around 2 am with high adrenaline. So, I did a search and came up with some old Mittir (peaty) advice.
 

Energizer

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You don't need to be super physically active to have a good metabolism. Just look at Ray or Danny Roddy. Both are quite sedentary and they are lean and healthy.
 

tara

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but still lean toward activity at some level even in the very sick/ill to be mostly a pro than a con.
Finding the currently appropriate level may be key.
So you wouldn't recommend a bedridden, sick, dying, low-energy person to try and get their energy up + exercise?
Very much depends on what is going on. There are people for whom at times getting out of bed and walking down the hall could be too much, and others for whom it would be ideal that they get up and out and moving more vigorously as soon as possible. I've known both.

I gather Buteyko began developing his ideas on breathing in a ward of people who were extremely unwell, maybe largely bedridden. (I think I came across some of his history at normalbreathing.com)
For people recovering from severe restrictive eating disorders, strenuous or prolonged exercise can risk interrupting recovery. Since severe anorexia-related states can be life-threatening, this is not trivial. (Olwyn at ED Institute has article, references.)

But most people probably benefit from some real activity.
 

morgan#1

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Man, I love being active. Walking in nature, lifting at the gym with my music. It’s like anti learned-helplessness. When I look back at two years ago I was a mess. Riding the bike cardio for 50 minutes and then later doing hot yoga. With hardly any food. Horrible.

Now it feels so good to be active. It never feels like a strain, never dread going. I really do check in with myself to see what energy i’ve got stored up. NOT what energy I can get from working out. That’s how I used to do it, drained me out completely.

And I like challenging myself, not as a self-flagellation. I’m fully aware of my heartbeat, sweat, etc. I’m like a kid in a candy store with the weights. That’s really how it should be. But there are some real downsides to being in the gym. Fluorescents everywhere. And tons of tvs showing crap. I don’t really like the air, and I don’t like touching all the weights that other people have touched. I’m not anal, just aware. I used to belong to a gym in Portland, OR when I lived out there, and it was really cool. It was an old building, high ceilings, industrial stuff, lots of sunlight.

I’ve been at this peat thing for a little over two years and I can’t eat enough for my metabolism. Now I’m pushing it to close to 3,000 so I can sustain my muscles. I believe you have to do something physical. Even if you could maintain a great metabolism being sedentary, I wouldn’t want to.

I actually do think it’s possible to maintain your metabolism being sedentary, but your muscles would be lacking, eventually body loose as you age, and the hormones you get from healthy working out, testosterone and androgens, I’m not sure that they would be as high. I add on 300-500 calories on days when I’m at the gym. Also I drink a huge tumbler of grape juice or lemonade with little salt, vitamin c, and beta alanine.
 

yeggim

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Don't discount heavy weights and their ability to put the body in an anabolic state. I don't do everything heavy but I found that anything heavy that is limited by your grip is ideal for energy and mood. I like above the knee pulls. It's not as taxing as dead lifts and I feel super afterwards and the next day I'm walking on air. Heavy dumbbell rows are excellent also. At my advanced age, I'm satisfied with looking good in a shirt.
 
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Don't discount heavy weights and their ability to put the body in an anabolic state. I don't do everything heavy but I found that anything heavy that is limited by your grip is ideal for energy and mood. I like above the knee pulls. It's not as taxing as dead lifts and I feel super afterwards and the next day I'm walking on air. Heavy dumbbell rows are excellent also. At my advanced age, I'm satisfied with looking good in a shirt.

I agree a bit since I used to lift very heavy and there were some good feelings associated with it if everything else was in check.

The problem is how do you know optimal calories and macro/micro intake when pushing yourself hard with heavy stuff?

Also thyroid of course. I operated on stress hormones before and energy drinks until I crashed and had to pick myself up again and realized how low my metabolism and energy truly was under the surface. You need to be sure thyroid, energy and mindset are right before going heavy I think.

Light stuff can still benefit almost anyone in some cases at least, but heavy is super taxing and can put someone with subpar thyroid or energy or etc. in to a weakened state for days probably (some here like @Cirion mentioned that even light stuff at times can do that).

I think the general dislike of exercise here from some comes from former stress hormone dominance, illusion of metabolism and crashing. I get it since I know it firsthand, but I find that even after crashing, light stuff here and there only helps as long as you don't push yourself hard. There is a mental aspect to it that some ignore when you're doing it right -- even if not good on thyroid.
 
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yeggim

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Light stuff can still benefit almost anyone in some cases at least, but heavy is super taxing and can put someone with subpar thyroid or energy or etc. in to a weakened state for days probably (some here like @Cirion mentioned that even light stuff at times can do that).

Trust me. I know about pushing it to the limit. It's how I wound up crawling here and questioning everything I thought I knew about health. Six weeks of Myo-Reps in the 8-12 range and then four weeks in the 3-6 range did me in. After about 4 weeks, going to the gym was like going to the dentist.

Wrapping up this saga, I wound up getting up to 450 lbs on the above the knee pull and 485 with wrist straps. Two sets of lawn mower pulls with heavy dumbbells and then called it a day. Felt good but I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Next day was a real eye opener. Felt super. Legs, pelvis and upper body felt more connected. Those benefits took a back seat to the elevated mood that set in and took my energy level up a notch.
 

GreekDemiGod

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But just forcing them to move in-and-of-itself simply will not increase their energy (well it might, but via stress hormones and lactic acid and not from T3/CO2). There's a reason they are bedridden and sick and its because of low energy not because of not moving enough! They should indeed fix their metabolic rate to where they have energy to not be bedridden, I definitely agree.

I can't think of a single time that exercise benefitted me when I did NOT want to do it (aka low energy) every attempt to FORCE it has failed and tanked my metabolic rate.

Basically, the bedridden person is a classic "Chicken or the egg" argument. Proponents of exercise claim the lack of activity caused the problem and forced activity will fix it when the real problem is simply energy.
******* right
 

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