If You're Sedentery You Will Have A Slow Metabolism

[Dino D]

@Cirion thats exaxtly how sportist build energy, they rest in the sun and eat for months, and then they go out and win a marathon, a wimbledon, a championship, a gold medal.... NOT... maybe moving alone cant fix things by its own, but it helps, a looooot

 

[Collden]

I also suspect that its actually especially people who have damaged their health with excessive or wrong exercise in the past that may need the right type of exercise to become fully healthy again.

This is firstly because wrong exercise can cause muscular imbalances that will not go away by itself but can only be fixed by right exercise. Secondly because wrong exercise causes wear and tear of soft tissues as well as frank injuries that do not properly heal. This unhealed damage causes chronic inflammation that suppresses metabolism. This kind of chronic damage does not spontaneously heal once established, but requires the appropriate physical stimulus that promotes adaptive remodeling without further damaging the tissue, again its a fine balance to strike.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

@Cirion thats exaxtly how sportist build energy, they rest in the sun and eat for months, and then they go out and win a marathon, a wimbledon, a championship, a gold medal.... NOT... maybe moving alone cant fix things by its own, but it helps, a looooot

They don't build energy, they build stamina, which is basically the same as saying that they slip into fat-burning mode more easily. This is the hallmark of aging: increased fatty acid oxidation. They basically push themselves so hard that their body's only option is to lower the youthful metabolism( carbohydrate oxidation) and increase back-up fuel metabolism( fat oxidation).

If you don't think these people are unhealthy, then check their kidney funtion. Or check their temperature, or their bowel movement frequency. You'll see these parameters are not better than people who follow their instincts and avoid excessive exertion.

 

[Dino D]

They don't build energy, they build stamina, which is basically the same as saying that they slip into fat-burning mode more easily. This is the hallmark of aging: increased fatty acid oxidation. They basically push themselves so hard that their body's only option is to lower the youthful metabolism( carbohydrate oxidation) and increase back-up fuel metabolism( fat oxidation).

If you don't think these people are unhealthy, then check their kidney funtion. Or check their temperature, or their bowel movement frequency. You'll see these parameters are not better than people who follow their instincts and avoid excessive exertion.

How can you have lot of stamina and be low energy? How would then a high energy extra low stamina human look/be like?

 

[Stramonium]

Walking is very important, everday. We have legs for a reason.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

You “build” energy by getting fat. Muscle are the primary metabolizers of fatty acids, you’re never going to burn away all your fat if you don’t improve muscular metabolism. I would wager that most people are low energy BECAUSE they they are signaling to their body that they don’t need to expend energy: by staying mentally and physically sedentary. By being active, you are signaling to your body that you have higher energy requirements and your body will adjust. It’s a vicious cycle that needs to be broken out of by making an initial effort. Thinking that you can eat your way out of a sluggish metabolism is ridiculous.

Lol I don't think diet is a bad way to help your metabolism recover. In fact, I think diet, along with environment, has the biggest influence on someone's health.

Why do you think that people are low energy due to their lack of physical activity and not the other way around? Don't you think there is enough proof that radically changing your diet can affect your weight in quite amazing ways?

The idea that you're espousing has been repeated over and over by mainstream medicine, that is, the "eat less, move more" statement. People who have tried this know that it doesn't work properly; if your hormones aren't in place, and good luck doing that without diet, you'll still have belly fat or arms that you simply cannot grow muscles on, even though you lost weight.

Your idea, as I see it, is like telling a man who has erectile dysfunction to continue having sex and, eventually, he'll be able to get a boner, without realizing that the man actually has low testosterone or thyroid function. It just doesn't work, you're trying to ignore the importance of metabolism in human physiology, and replace it with mental fortitude.

My view is that people should sort out their metabolism first, and, by doing that, their energy levels will increase. When they notice they have energy again, doing demanding activities, including some exercise, will be fun and will feel very natural. I do agree the cycle needs to be broken, but I think doing that with things like thyroid and adequate nutrition and sleep is the way to go.

 

[oldmanthunder]

They don't build energy, they build stamina, which is basically the same as saying that they slip into fat-burning mode more easily. This is the hallmark of aging: increased fatty acid oxidation. They basically push themselves so hard that their body's only option is to lower the youthful metabolism( carbohydrate oxidation) and increase back-up fuel metabolism( fat oxidation).

If you don't think these people are unhealthy, then check their kidney funtion. Or check their temperature, or their bowel movement frequency. You'll see these parameters are not better than people who follow their instincts and avoid excessive exertion.

This is the typical Peat dogma but while ffa are elevated in old people, fao is low, because fat oxidizing tissues (ie muscles) are diminished. Increasing muscle size/function is the go to strategy to delay aging, which is why exercise and anabolic hormones are the most promising anti-aging treatments.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

How can you have lot of stamina and be low energy? How would then a high energy extra low stamina human look/be like?

Easy, just be in fat burning mode. Just because someone can burn lots of calories doing an excruciatingly intense exercise, it doesn't mean their brain or liver or pancreas are bathing in CO2. Stress can make you go through a lot of calories just to keep the organism alive but that isn't thriving.

Well, I don't think stamina should be non-existent or even too low, but if you train yourself to exert effort for long periods of time, then you'll sacrifice intensity for stamina, and considering that sprints and concentric exercise improves mitochondria and long-distance running hurts mitochondria, this is the exact opposite of what you would want.

I don't know for sure, but I think a very healthy human would have perfect teeth, good amounts of muscle tissue( absence of muscle wasting), very strong bones, perfect sleep every single night, perfect digestion without any bloat or constipation, positive mood and openness. These things are achieved with high levels of CO2, GABA, dopamine, progesterone and androgens and low levels of serotonin, estrogen and nitric oxide. Lots of exercise reduce the former ones and increase the latter ones.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

This is the typical Peat dogma but while ffa are elevated in old people, fao is low, because fat oxidizing tissues (ie muscles) are diminished. Increasing muscle size/function is the go to strategy to delay aging, which is why exercise and anabolic hormones are the most promising anti-aging treatments.

I wouldn't say it's a dogma, many people here have experienced this first hand before discovering Peat.

Where did you read that old people have less fao? My statement above was based on a study where they measured the fao of both old and young cells. The result was that both old and young cells can metabolize fat at the same rate, the difference between them is that old cells can't burn GLUCOSE at a rate as high as young cells. You could argue that young people burn more fat in total , because they have more muscle, and maybe that's true, but I haven't seen proof for that. It's also possible that young people burn less fat, since they can oxidize so much more carbohydrate than old people.

FFAs are high in old people likely due to low glucose levels inside the cells, although excessive ffa's themselves block glucose metabolism.

I agree that having developed muscles is great for health, and low doses of androgens can really help people build a lot of muscle. I only disagree with you on how to get there. By taking care of your metabolism, androgens levels rise, and building muscle, which is a tissue that is quite active, hormonally speaking, becomes totally possible instead of nearly impossible. Exercise is a stimulus, but if the body doesn't have the energy or the resources to correctly adapt to that stimulus, then it won't build a lot of muscle.

 

[milkboi]

Exercise is a stimulus, but if the body doesn't have the energy or the resources to correctly adapt to that stimulus, then it won't build a lot of muscle.

This. In my keto days the only thing I was building when weightlifting was the physique of a concentration camp prisoner.

 

[oldmanthunder]

I wouldn't say it's a dogma, many people here have experienced this first hand before discovering Peat.

Where did you read that old people have less fao? My statement above was based on a study where they measured the fao of both old and young cells. The result was that both old and young cells can metabolize fat at the same rate, the difference between them is that old cells can't burn GLUCOSE at a rate as high as young cells. You could argue that young people burn more fat in total , because they have more muscle, and maybe that's true, but I haven't seen proof for that. It's also possible that young people burn less fat, since they can oxidize so much more carbohydrate than old people.

FFAs are high in old people likely due to low glucose levels inside the cells, although excessive ffa's themselves block glucose metabolism.

I agree that having developed muscles is great for health, and low doses of androgens can really help people build a lot of muscle. I only disagree with you on how to get there. By taking care of your metabolism, androgens levels rise, and building muscle, which is a tissue that is quite active, hormonally speaking, becomes totally possible instead of nearly impossible. Exercise is a stimulus, but if the body doesn't have the energy or the resources to correctly adapt to that stimulus, then it won't build a lot of muscle.

Lipid metabolism in the elderly. - PubMed - NCBI

Adrenergically stimulated fat utilization and ageing. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Cirion]

thats exaxtly how sportist build energy, they rest in the sun and eat for months, and then they go out and win a marathon, a wimbledon, a championship, a gold medal.... NOT... maybe moving alone cant fix things by its own, but it helps, a looooot

Most athletes actually have horrible resting metabolic rates. Pulse rates of 40-50, waking temperatures probably in the 96-97's. The only ones that don't are probably completely drowning in AAS and other PED's.

They have energy, but only while actually working out, and only because they are using adrenaline, not T3, as energy.

I used to train intense powerlifting style. I had some pretty decent lifts, nothing record shattering but I could do for example 350 lb back squats for 5 sets of 5. Certainly nothing to sneeze at. But, my metabolic rate was BAD. Also I had chronic depression, chronic back pain, shoulder pain, hip pain, neck pain, pectoral pain, knee pain, insomnia, all sorts of fun stuff. I didn't measure temps and pulses back then but I'm sure it was bad. But hey! I was lean and strong, which most people think means healthy. But I wasn't.

My view is that people should sort out their metabolism first, and, by doing that, their energy levels will increase. When they notice they have energy again, doing demanding activities, including some exercise, will be fun and will feel very natural. I do agree the cycle needs to be broken, but I think doing that with things like thyroid and adequate nutrition and sleep is the way to go.

In my experience, forced exercise is neither fun nor conducive to my metabolic rate. But when I enjoy it, and I have the energy for it, I find it can be helpful to my metabolic rate.

Anyone who thinks nutrition can't fix most metabolic disorder probably has never gotten high levels of CO2 like on the order of 5%+ (RP says 5-6% or so is the desired range). Read some of VoS's old posts on these forums, he found the same thing -- 6% saturation resulted in euphoric moods, lots of energy ETC. CO2 is the key.

Getting to these values is hard, no doubt, but worth it.

I've definitely learned that just eating more is not necessarily the answer, on that I think all of us agree. Picking the right foods, in the right quantities, at the right moment in time is key. It is all these nuances that makes it challenging, for sure.

 

[Braveheart]

This is the typical Peat dogma but while ffa are elevated in old people, fao is low, because fat oxidizing tissues (ie muscles) are diminished. Increasing muscle size/function is the go to strategy to delay aging, which is why exercise and anabolic hormones are the most promising anti-aging treatments.

Thank you...every one of your posts rings true...I am 74 and disabled by stroke, very sedentary...fighting sarcopenia and fat oxidizing issues...but my exercise routine (the Big Five...Body by Science) and anabolic hormones is my hope and seems to be working...this problem of lipid metabolism in the elderly has me very interested...thanks again, for bringing it up.

 

[Cirion]

I don't even find low FAO to even be much of a problem if anything it is a good thing. FAO, much like lipolysis, is a stress signal and you don't want FAO, you also don't want lipolysis. In fact FAO blockers are the best weight loss drugs out there like Mildronate, Orlistat. I'm going to start taking Pyrucet, another potent FAO blocker that Haidut produced, to help lose body fat. FAO should be low but glucose oxidation high. Lowering FAO typically increases glucose oxidation. It's counterintuitive at first but by lowering FAO you actually lose more body fat, by other mechanisms in the body that Haidut and others have discussed in past threads like glucuronidation.

 

[baccheion]

What is a marker of metabolism? T3?

 

[Cirion]

What is a marker of metabolism? T3?

There's lots of subjective markers like euphoric moods, genuine kindness and empathy and love for yourself and other people, motivation, strong libido, easy to build muscle, lots of energy, restful sleep, confidence and commanding presence both in groups of men and ease of building attraction in women you date, lack of gaining body fat even with eating lots of foods and lots of junk foods.

The objective markers would be waking temps, pulses, CO2, good thyroid labs / androgen levels, low FFA/endotoxin/estrogen/serotonin/prolactin/etc. T3 alone wouldn't be sufficient, like maybe you have higher rT3 or maybe you have a hyperactive nodule which could result in high T3 but not a good metabolism overall, but a good T3 number is obviously needed yeah.

 

[Amazoniac]

The idea of closed system has been criticized multiple times before.

The problem in waiting for the grand recovery is that you don't know if it's going to be tomorrow or after 5 years. If it takes longer, the detrimental effects start to conflict with the preservation; you can't sit on the island hoping for rescue, it's better to move (tut) because the unexpected might occur.

Exercise is stress, if it's not overwhelming, it often leads to a positive adaptation.
- [..]biologic stress is closely linked to,... | Ray Peat Forum

Lack of stimulus is also a stressor, issues with underuse eventually ensue.
- One such difference is known to everybody:... | Ray Peat Forum

The body starts to sacrifice what isn't recruited, it seems desirable, but the overall consequence can be negative.
- Understanding the Role of Exercise in Cancer Cachexia Therapy

Of course a strenuous activity is also signalling something to your body, and it can compromise what shouldn't be.
- Newsletter On Hormesis November 2017

In case the basal stress is high and the person gets fatigued doing little, then stick to light movement (such as walking) throughout the day. However, for there to be greater adaptation stimulus, some degree of exertion will be required. A gym session can be overwhelming, it's usually an environment that you can't do much other than exercise, so you tend to concentrate activities to make to visit worth and leave in time without a sense of guilt. Perhaps if it's spaced in a day with controlled intensity, it's tolerable and not devastating. Brief bouts that are relatively more demanding, like lifting something heavier than usual, pushups, stair climbing, pulling a plane with your teeth, etc, followed by enough rest to feel comfortable to repeat. Doing this enough times a day should increase the capacity and improve wealth.

 

[Vinny]

Exercise is the number 1 intervention to improve mitochondrial function, more than any supplement or food. By training muscles regularly, you are improving basal metabolism by increasing muscle mitochondrial density which is where most of the anti-aging benefits come from.

Ok, but how you exercise, when you just don`t have the energy for it? How one can build those muscles (very necessary, agreed) when the only action he can take on certain days is to drag himself to the bathroom/kitchen and back to bed?

 

[Amazoniac]

Ok, but how you exercise, when you just don`t have the energy for it? How one can build those muscles (very necessary, agreed) when the only action he can take on certain days is to drag himself to the bathroom/kitchen and back to bed?

It's about having progress in mind and working towards the next goal, like a rehabilitation: lifting an arm higher than before and cheering on it, noticing how it affects you and what can be done to move forward, etc. Contrary to giving up on this area.

 

[Momado965]

So you dont belive that sitting and resting, by it self (perfect diet) does not (with time, longer time) lower metabolism?

No. A big far no.