If You Don't Want Low Testosterone DO NOT FAST

[Fexxx]

@Bobber

If I feel sluggish, have stomach discomfort, a cold ect or all together... I know it´s time for a reset ;-)

have a look: Study Shows How Fasting For 3 Days Can Regenerate Your Entire Immune System

 

[dookie]

Due to insufficient dietary protein, the liver cannot detoxify estrogen while fasting.

People don't look particularly "estrogenic" after a fast. Look at concentration camp victims, or other people living in starvation. They don't exactly look like they have water retention, or are "estrogenic".

I did read some studies about female mice having higher estrogen blood levels during low calorie diets, but this wasn't true for males, and I'm not sure the diet was designed well, or how they measured estrogen was reliable.

Maybe @haidut or others can chime in:

Does fasting increase or decrease the tissue levels of estrogen? I assume that eventually, with high cortisol and catabolism, the cells just don't hang on to water and fat very well, and estrogen should eventually fall. Especially since the androgens decrease quite severely too, the substrates for estrogen should fall too. Any Ideas?

 

[Fexxx]

I experienced the setting is extremly important. Fasting on stressfull work days or longterm will deliver a complete different result then do it in a nice place/outdoor and have some easy walks ect.

 

[gbolduev]

SLOW oxidizers can fast with no problems. Fast oxidizers - NEVER FAST

testosterone is not going to be low. I have it at 800. I fast 2 times a year for 4 years. very very long fasts. 40-50 days. My testosterone is quite high since my cortisol sensitivity is good and body can handle anabolic energy. I am a slow oxidizer

fast oxidizers need to desensitize their adrenaline, thus NO FASTING


Easy to see. high ceruloplasmin fast oxidizer
low ceruloplasmin slow oxidizer.

 

[Xisca]

lol I have another definition of fasting! Fast from all supps!
I have seen many times said that in this forum people are trying many supplements and more than peat recommand. But also, though Peat says that food is the best, he does recommand to take thyroid, aspirine, and why are people talking about MB, progesterone, cypro etc, if not coming from some comments from Peat?

just mention that, because I feel like people on the other thread have been making it seem like Peat recommends that all people should be taking certain vitamins and supplements when he doesn't.

I can understand that it feels like this though I have not seen this really, especailly the "all people should". I prefer talking about adapting to the diffferent type of persons.

So... who should fast and who should not? That is the question !
Edit, I did not see the answer up there before, I was writing...

 

[Xisca]

After reading that fasting is not for fast oxydizers.... and that those people can usually be recognize as the ones with a strong drive to go and act, and need activity, work oout etc... and that those people are not only the ones who should not fast but the ones that will do the best on a RP diet.... then this does not surprise me at all

I fasted regularly for years ( between ages 16 -21 ) and all it did for me was make my regular temps around 95-96°F, caused erectile dysfunction at first, then led to a complete lack of interest in women all together. I lucked out and didn't grow boobs though.

Fasting is what ruined my health before Peat.

I fasted from 23-26 and went from an anaerobic athlete to an asexual plant.

and you all do good on RP diet?

1st hand experiences are great, and then we have to know why these experiences are different - may be a different type of person?

AFTER fasting your body responds extremely well and can re-sensitize it. I noticed this as well after a ten day water fast.

For me a fasted weekend, 1-3 time a month, was an incredible step to solve my health (and mindset) issues.

Instead of "do not fast!" I'd rather ask "who can fast?"
and then HOW.
Bad result = either you should not fast OR you did something wrong. For example it seems that going out of a fast with fruits can ruin it. When I did a fast, I spit out the piece of fruit and had to find something else, and I could not understand why the fruit did not suit me!

I experienced the setting is extremly important. Fasting on stressfull work days or longterm will deliver a complete different result then do it in a nice place/outdoor and have some easy walks ect.

Resolving inner stress is better with no such outside stress...

Its chronic fasting that ruins you.

Right, typically this is not a good fast... and not called a fast.

Ray talks about men coming from concentration camps, and when they started eating again developed breasts.

That is not similar to fasting at all.
Fasting has to do with rythm. Life is rythm and movement. You fast for a reason, and then you refeed.
Fexxx told us about his good way to know when he needs to fast again.

 

[TubZy]

@Bobber

If I feel sluggish, have stomach discomfort, a cold ect or all together... I know it´s time for a reset ;-)

have a look: Study Shows How Fasting For 3 Days Can Regenerate Your Entire Immune System

Yup, that was the immune study I was talking about. So if "stress hormones" and "estrogen" are so high like everyone talks about in this thread how does the immune system vastly regenerate especially after CHEMO.

There is also a study showing fasting can dissolve scars as well.

Didn't even mention fasting can induce autophagy yet so not sure why everyone is saying fasting is bad for your liver..it also releases PUFA..

 

[ecstatichamster]

I used to do IF each day and I can't say I lost weight or felt really good doing it.

I did the 18 hour / 6 hour window for maybe 2 or 3 years. Or the 20 / 4.

I was always surprised that I didn't lose weight. The thing that was nice was a mental clarity free from digestive tasks during the day.

 

[Xisca]

not sure why everyone is saying fasting is bad for your liver..it also releases PUFA..

+1

. He says some people whose liver is healthy for instance can go long time without eating.

What sort of health? Able to store glycogene? The more I have eaten fruits and dry fruits and honey, the more I have had to eat often.
What motivated me was to have a diet sparing a lot of cooking time!

He also mentions fasting shuts down the livers ability to detoxify. I noticed after fasting that as I resumed eating I smelled awful for a few days.[/USER]

Depending if you did it right when you went out, and if it was adapted to you... But I am interested to know more about the sort of liver health NEEDED before fasting, or if there is a way to fast properly, in order to avoid this sort of side-effect.
Thanks all!

 

[schultz]

Okay I have to ask, what is fast oxidizer/slow oxidizer? It has suddenly popped up in every thread recently. I'm not being funny, I actually don't know what it is.

I found some sort of definition using google but the definitions given seem vague and I can't find any papers discussing it. Is there some other term used for it that I can type into pubmed?

 

[schultz]

Look at the massive increase of T upon refeeding!

I'd be curious how fasting influences aromatase activity. T can be great but not if it's being turned into estrogen.

EDIT: When I hear the word fasting I consider it to be 24 hours + without food. Intermittent fasting, like Ramadan, is different in that you tend to eat before the 24 hours are up (before and after sunset if I am not mistaken)

EDIT #2: I feel as though it's pointless to use concentration camps as any sort of evidence of the negative effects of fasting since these people were physically and mentally abused.

 

[Jsaute21]

Smart people, athletic people, good looking people, whatever you may aspire to be do not fast. They don't. They are normal enough to wake up, feel a bit hungry and eat. They don't over think it. They aren't subconciously saying to themselves "I don't deserve to eat." Doing it once in a while is completely different, as i understand either being sick or very full one morning. Maybe you sleep in until noon, whatever. But fasting on a daily basis is bad news. I think one of the reasons Ray Peat's principles are so attractive, is that they are simple in nature. Micronutrients, carbohydrates, enough protein, etc. It all makes sense. I can also tell you right now that as a 29 year old man, i feel and look much better than i did 3 years ago. My sex drive is back. My six pack is back without really much maintenance, and i am much better at work. Ray Peat is smarter than the 25 year old bro with the fitness blog you are reading regarding fasting.

 

[Ledo]

I've tried explaining this in multiple threads, but for whatever reason many members of this forum refuse to observe the evidence that cortisol is a stress hormone. Anything that drives up your cortisol will lead to general insulin resistance, decreased conversion of thyroxine to T3, decreased testosterone production, and many outcomes we wouldn't desire outside of a truly stressful situation. It's an intelligent response by the body to stressful stimuli. The things that testosterone promote in man are not things that your body perceives itself to be able to afford when enduring stress like fasting, low-carbing, intense "exercise", etc.

Maybe your wisdom went begging because people felt a major point was going over your head or simply being ignored?

As always with anything, do the benefits outweigh the risks? Those challenged by Gbold's POV are now grasping at a one sided paradigm (all stress hormones bad all the time...Peat said so...studies say so) when the reality is vastly different.

Fasting is a tool, maybe it can be used in this context...for some people...maybe not. Lets find out who may be helped, who may be hurt to much and go from there fleshing out @gbolduev 's ideas on oxidizer rates and balance. No need to panic, your handlers will still pay you trolling of this site (not intended at OP or Dugga), your agendas will be fine.

 

[cyclops]

Smart people, athletic people, good looking people, whatever you may aspire to be do not fast. They don't. They are normal enough to wake up, feel a bit hungry and eat. They don't over think it. They aren't subconciously saying to themselves "I don't deserve to eat." Doing it once in a while is completely different, as i understand either being sick or very full one morning. Maybe you sleep in until noon, whatever. But fasting on a daily basis is bad news. I think one of the reasons Ray Peat's principles are so attractive, is that they are simple in nature. Micronutrients, carbohydrates, enough protein, etc. It all makes sense. I can also tell you right now that as a 29 year old man, i feel and look much better than i did 3 years ago. My sex drive is back. My six pack is back without really much maintenance, and i am much better at work. Ray Peat is smarter than the 25 year old bro with the fitness blog you are reading regarding fasting.

This is why I want to see a picture of Gbol. I just wanna know if he be looking good.

 

[cyclops]

This is me on the far right. Don't look quite like i did at 21 or 22 but a whole lot better than i did 3 years ago. I follow fairly standard Ray Peat/Haidut train of thought principles.

Are you the model dude on the right when looking at the picture? Or the chunkster on the real right?

 

[Jsaute21]

Are you the model dude on the right when looking at the picture? Or the chunkster on the real right?

I'm the guy on the far right in the white shirt when looking at the picture. We are all different, and i am not quite as researched as @haidut or some others. (Though we agree on a lot.)

All i can tell you is that fasting destroyed my health temporarily. My libido went in the shitter, so did my mood and cognitive function. Went from having a 38" vertical or so to probably 32 or 33". Went from a happy and witty guy to someone who didn't really bring that much to the table. I am being hard on myself but in all honesty, i sincerely regret fasting. Complete waste of time and energy.

 

[cyclops]

I'm the guy on the far right in the white shirt when looking at the picture. We are all different, and i am not quite as researched as @haidut or some others. (Though we agree on a lot.)

All i can tell you is that fasting destroyed my health temporarily. My libido went in the shitter, so did my mood and cognitive function. Went from having a 38" vertical or so to probably 32 or 33". Went from a happy and witty guy to someone who didn't really bring that much to the table. I am being hard on myself but in all honesty, i sincerely regret fasting. Complete waste of time and energy.

You look real good man...good for you! What was your fasting schedule like the you were fasting?

 

[Jsaute21]

You look real good man...good for you! What was your fasting schedule like the you were fasting?

My fasting schedule usually consisted of black coffee on an empty stomach, which made me feel like crap. But you have to ignore feeling like crap. It is part of the process!!!!!!!!! That was sarcasm. Feeling like crap tells you everything you need to know.

For a while, i would eat almonds, peanut butter and other PUFAS, cook a lot with olive oil. Nothing absolutely terrible, but i was not doing myself any favors. I have been low PUFA for about a year, and feel better every day. I have somewhat low cortisol is really my only "issue" and i don't consider it to be that big of a problem.

I am a huge believer in OJ, good fruit, naked casein protein, potatoes, mushrooms, grass fed beef or lamb, mexican cokes and coffee with milk and sugar. Generally the more i eat the better i feel as i never really eat past being full.

 

[DuggaDugga]

Maybe your wisdom went begging because people felt a major point was going over your head or simply being ignored?

As always with anything, do the benefits outweigh the risks? Those challenged by Gbold's POV are now grasping at a one sided paradigm (all stress hormones bad all the time...Peat said so...studies say so) when the reality is vastly different.

Fasting is a tool, maybe it can be used in this context...for some people...maybe not. Lets find out who may be helped, who may be hurt to much and go from there fleshing out @gbolduev 's ideas on oxidizer rates and balance. No need to panic, your handlers will still pay you trolling of this site (not intended at OP or Dugga), your agendas will be fine.

Oh, I don't claim to be right, and I have no agenda. I have no business model or pride attached to an on-line forum moniker, nothing for me to blindly defend in the face of contradictory opinion. Healthy debate is the medium by which we can all learn and better ourselves, me included. I do think some biological explanation is warranted when someones makes a point however, and often so much of the discussion on this forum is one side weighing their anecdote, an anecdote which I would never intend to invalidate but I also frankly have little interest in when the context of that individual's life is infinite beyond what can be communicated here.

If fasting worked for someone, that's great, I'm curious. Let's discuss why it was helpful, what was the mechanism, and why that couldn't be achieved in a healthier way using reasonable dietary changes that don't require stress.

 

[TubZy]

I'd be curious how fasting influences aromatase activity. T can be great but not if it's being turned into estrogen.

EDIT: When I hear the word fasting I consider it to be 24 hours + without food. Intermittent fasting, like Ramadan, is different in that you tend to eat before the 24 hours are up (before and after sunset if I am not mistaken)

EDIT #2: I feel as though it's pointless to use concentration camps as any sort of evidence of the negative effects of fasting since these people were physically and mentally abused.

I can check into the estrogen aspect but you need to also remember that estrogen is very suppressive of the HPTA so if estrogen was high it would negatively impact T levels when coming off (just like after a steroid cycle when estrogen is high and your T levels are low). From my personal view, I didn't have any estrogenic symptoms while fasting and I have never heard of anyone complain about estrogenic symptoms while or post fast. I felt extremely androgenic post fast.

After a couple days in ketones are released and your body will start eating up the fat stores.