If SSRI's Are Bad Then What Is The Alternative?

[Serious Black]

Take what he prescribes you

I am not comfortable with taking citropham. I think exposure is the only way

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think exposure is the only way

Exposure to your anxiety?

 

[aquaman]

@Serious Black exposing yourself to the panic is the only answer, though you need the confidence to do it

I don't think Ray would support this at all.

His answer would probably be: "raise the metabolic rate".

Ie eat, sleep and do things that get your resting pulse rate > 75 and your temps up to 98.6.

Fear seems to melt away for me when I manage to do this.

The catch is you have to consistently record your eating and lifestyle, and monitor your pulse and temps to see what works, which people on this forum largely refuse to do. Instead they want the next magic experimental rat chemical!

 

[Queequeg]

I don't think Ray would support this at all.

His answer would probably be: "raise the metabolic rate".

Ie eat, sleep and do things that get your resting pulse rate > 75 and your temps up to 98.6.

Fear seems to melt away for me when I manage to do this.

The catch is you have to consistently record your eating and lifestyle, and monitor your pulse and temps to see what works, which people on this forum largely refuse to do. Instead they want the next magic experimental rat chemical!

Maybe but Ray is not a psychologist. A real phobia I would think is very different from run of the mill anxiety and fears. Slow deliberate and by choice exposure to your phobia is something I heard conservative hero and psychologist Jordan Peterson recommend. This makes you stronger. The whole idea of safe spaces and trigger warnings is making the younger generation psychologically weak. i.e snowflakes

 

[Serious Black]

I don't think Ray would support this at all.

His answer would probably be: "raise the metabolic rate".

Ie eat, sleep and do things that get your resting pulse rate > 75 and your temps up to 98.6.

Fear seems to melt away for me when I manage to do this.

The catch is you have to consistently record your eating and lifestyle, and monitor your pulse and temps to see what works, which people on this forum largely refuse to do. Instead they want the next magic experimental rat chemical!

My resting pulse rate is already above 75 and my temp is usually 37C and above. Dips at night then I eat and it goes back up

 

[encerent]

Do you have friends, family, or a supportive social circle.

Not everything can been cured chemically.

But sometimes you gotta use something to reduce severe depressions and anxieties before you can go out into the world and get friendships, relationships and social circle.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

But sometimes you gotta use something to reduce severe depressions and anxieties before you can go out into the world and get friendships, relationships and social circle.

Progesterone increases pregnenolone.

That works for me.

 

[Barliman]

Try Metergoline, cyproheptadine, lisuride, lithium

Why Lithium? It is well known in conventional psychiatry for its anti-manic effect, but equally well known for not being much help withe depressive swings.

 

[Barliman]

You should take a read of this paper and some of the references. Seems fluoxetine at least works (when it works) by lowering serotonin and perhaps increasing allopregnanolone. Pregnenolone increases allopregnanolone, serum pregnenolone sulphate is low in people with "generalized social phobia", etc. So, probably something to lower serotonin and/or increase allopregnanolone/pregnenolone and GABA.
Загрузка статьи

Fluoexitine also as a modest dopaminergic effect- none of these things are pure agonists of one receptor or the other.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Exposure would work in the context of an understanding and rationalizing of the fear -- you are "eating" it and "digesting" it.

Exposure to form a shell and hardening (what "conservatives" like to say is manly) amounts to suppression or numbing, and is basically a safe space philosophy made even worse.

 

[Barliman]

You are probably not going to like this answer but I think you should look at a behavioral modification route. The key to curing all phobias is to slowly and by choice experience the activity that is causing the distress until you build back your confidence. You have probably been spending a lot of time isolated from others and agoraphobia is a common result. I am sure with a little googling you can get a nice step by step plan to get rid of this phobia. SSRIs from what I understand are not very healthy for you and I wouldn't take them unless I had no other choice.

Exposure therapies can work well if they are not pushed too hard, the technique that I have had explained to me is to learn a quick relaxation technique, then use that in conjunction with graded exposure- ie for an extreme case have someone draw a picture of a spider and get as close as you can to it until you feel slightly edgy- then practice the relaxation technique and get a little closer, etc in built up steps. Flooding (just going for it) has been shown not to work and to often cause harm.

If you can find a good hypnotherapist they can produce great results for phobias in just a few sessions.

As a rule DIY cures are prone to go wrong- having both technical guidance and moral support counts for a lot.

 

[Barliman]

Exposure would work in the context of an understanding and rationalizing of the fear -- you are "eating" it and "digesting" it.

Exposure to form a shell and hardening (what "conservatives" like to say is manly) amounts to suppression or numbing, and is basically a safe space philosophy made even worse.

No- the issue here is the unhelpful generalisation of a stress response to an unnecessary stimulus- effectively a conditioned reflex- made worse by an escalating cycle of fear of fear responses as your body reacts to the signs of an active stress response.
Learning various stress modulation techniques - from mindful breathing to formal mindfuness based psychotherapies to older techniques like autogenic training is actually pretty easy, and it allows one to progressively experience the stresssor in the context of feeling relaxed.

 

[Simonsays]

What therapy are you undertaking? Is it pyschotherapy or is it a form of CBT?

Anxiety and panic is related to long term suppressed emotions like rage and anger. Are you free with your emotions? Are you cynical , sarcastic, how does your anger seep out?

If youve been like this most of your life, you may find it very difficult to release them and get in touch with the real issues.

Anti ds etc, can really help in the short run, but they are masking the real problems and are treating the symptoms not the cause.

CBT i believe can also be a pyschological quick fix band aid.. Trying to alter the way you react to a trigger, without asking why you have these triggers.

"The body keeps the score"

Good luck

PS. Arent the "older??" SSREs a better alternative to SSRIs , as they lower serotonin?

 

[Barliman]

My therapist thinks that taking medication will really help me as I am agoraphobic. Well I don't like labels but you get the picture.

What alternative can you suggest me? I asked about Tianeptine as I found some good research on it. But it is not available in Canada and I am not comfortable with ordering white powder online and taking it

Was wondering your thoughts

You might find this link interesting:

Fears | Phobias | OCD Obsessive Compulsive Disorders| LD

Levinson has not had much support in getting funding for full research but he has an extensive database and the mechanisms he is talking about make biological sense.
They also correlate well with the work of a group of practitioners (mostly chiropractors) doing what is called functional neurology or neurological rehabilitation.

Essentially one of the most fear inducing stimuli is the fear of falling, and the functional deficits being discussed here all involve the cerebellum and vestibular systems. The problems can be present for many years before they cause an overt problem, but events like a minor head injury, or being sick and confined to bed, or a bad experience that effectively tags the stimulus to a particular event can set up a problem. The catch is that because they are so persistent they are no longer experienced as poor balance - but normalised as just the way you are.

I have ADHD myself and have been recieving neuro- rehabilitation for it, and am surprised at its effectiveness.

 

[Simonsays]

I wouldnt go near a chiropractor. Its quackery. I visited one once and he managed to make things a lot worse.

The evidence shows that chiropractors do more harm than good | Spectator Health

 

[Such_Saturation]

No- the issue here is the unhelpful generalisation of a stress response to an unnecessary stimulus- effectively a conditioned reflex- made worse by an escalating cycle of fear of fear responses as your body reacts to the signs of an active stress response.
Learning various stress modulation techniques - from mindful breathing to formal mindfuness based psychotherapies to older techniques like autogenic training is actually pretty easy, and it allows one to progressively experience the stresssor in the context of feeling relaxed.

That is what I said

 

[Barliman]

That is what I said

No, what I said was a little different to your original comment- but maybe the apparent difference is down to the limitations of language as a tool of communication.

In your post you were essentially describing came across as a more cognitive approach of "understanding and rationalising the fear" which came across as more like CBT.

The approach I outlined is more directed at gaining mastery over the physical correlates of the fear and then re-experiencing the object of the fear in the context of being relaxed. That is much more directed at the subcortical correlates of the fear rather than the cognitive aspects.

Much the same rationale is being used in the current trials of MDMA for PTSD.

 

[Serious Black]

What therapy are you undertaking? Is it pyschotherapy or is it a form of CBT?

Anxiety and panic is related to long term suppressed emotions like rage and anger. Are you free with your emotions? Are you cynical , sarcastic, how does your anger seep out?

If youve been like this most of your life, you may find it very difficult to release them and get in touch with the real issues.

Anti ds etc, can really help in the short run, but they are masking the real problems and are treating the symptoms not the cause.

CBT i believe can also be a pyschological quick fix band aid.. Trying to alter the way you react to a trigger, without asking why you have these triggers.

"The body keeps the score"

Good luck

PS. Arent the "older??" SSREs a better alternative to SSRIs , as they lower serotonin?

No it just happened a year and a half ago when I had a panic attack heading home one time. Then I just started having them as I was very scared of them. When I express anger its violent usually. But never really happens because I am never angry very often. There are so many suggestions on here it can get confusing. I don't have money at all so all these chiropractors and pregrenolone I can't get. Besides I have done all these supplements and nothing good ever came from them

 

[Kyle M]

How about cypro? Serotonin reuptake inhibitors are bad cuz muh serotonin, so why not block the serotonin in the first place?

Or, you might be able to get a mild stress effect that could mimic serotonin's neural action with vigorous exercise.

 

[meatbag]

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