If PUFA's Are One Of The Main Causes Of Aging, Why Don't Fruitarians Look Younger Than Other People

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Gadsie

Gadsie

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It's just luck. You have the genes for it. That doesn't mean that your parents had those same features, it just means that you somehow have the biology to have those features regardless of where it came from. Of course your lifestyle has some effect but it's just your nature. I've never had acne no matter what I ate so I have some kind of biology to be resistant to acne.
I think things such as wrinkles and other age related symptoms are a more telling sign of degenerative processes than acne. That's not to say that genes don't influence that. But if your face is all wrinkled then I don't think your 'internal environment' can be very healthy either. If a healthy diet is able to protect you against largely age-related diseases such as heart disease and cancer, it should also be able to keep your skin relatively young. I don't believe your skin is this completely isolated organ.
 

Jennifer

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Hi @Jennifer,

Thanks for the link.

I have been raw vegan for about 6 weeks now. I am still surprised how I am surviving on so little protein! It is so different from our training that you need faith to step into the void and give it a try! It doesn't help that detox can be mistaken for deficiencies! (Arnold Ehret wrote something to this effect 100 years ago).

I think you praised Robert Morse in the past and he has been the final motivation for me to give it a go!

Fruitylou from Denmark also provided a lot of encouragement with her large collection of health turnaround testimonial videos from people attending various fruit festivals around the world.

I have been high fruit since discovering Ray Peat in early 2015 but giving up the dairy, meat and seafood has taken away my puffy eyes.

Replacing desiccated coconut with avocado seemed to help but waiting to see how my body adjusts longer term.

Can you please tell me what you eat in a day to give you the school student effect?
That's awesome, Ritchie! I remember a while back you were moving toward a more fruitarian diet, but didn't know how you were getting on with that.

Yeah, it definitely requires some faith given current beliefs, especially for those who aren't familiar with Arnold Ehret, Shelton, Natural Hygiene etc. I was already familiar with them from when I did 80/10/10 a decade ago so the concept of fruitarianism and detox wasn't so "out there" to me when I went back to a fruitarian diet and eventually found Dr. Morse. I think I've watched all his videos. lol

I appreciate Dr. Morse's compassion and that like Ray, he spends so much time answering people's questions. I even contacted his clinic for some advice back when my dog was dying from cancer and his staff was so helpful. The "diseases" he has seen people overcome like the paralyzed walking again and even the regeneration of surgically removed organs/glands, and what I've witnessed myself – it's incredible what our bodies are capable of.

Detox is tough to read, yeah. Getting regular blood work helped ease my mind in the beginning when I was still learning to read my body. Now I know when I need to back off some, which for me means adding in more fat and tender lettuces. For others, it seems only cooked will slow things down. I don't know if you're aware of these, but they may be of help to you...

Here's a forum based on Dr. Morse's work/regenerative detoxification:

https://d078199efae7-002276.vbulletin.net

And here's his book. I bought the paperback copy and love it:

http://www.truthseekerz.com/Robert_Morse_-_The_Detox_Miracle_Sourcebook_EBOK.pdf#

I went hardcore the first year, eating mostly melons and grapes, and now include a lot of variety, though melons and grapes still make up the majority of my diet. So far today I've had galia melons, champagne grapes, raw Thai coconut water, dried mango (softened with coconut water) and red leaf lettuce wraps stuffed with heirloom tomatoes and Hass avocado.

This past week I've also had canary and Santa Clause melons, red grapes, frozen mangoes, papaya, jackfruit, orange juice, celery juice, cucumbers, white peaches, medjool dates, That's It raw fruit bars, red and yellow striped sweet peppers, young Thai coconut meat and Florida avocados (low oil variety).

I find I'm wanting the wraps a couple times a week now and the rest of the time only low-fat, water rich fruits. Something I've noticed is that within a day of having avocado, my skin becomes unbelievably soft like I've moisturized even though I haven't. I have no clue what it is about them that causes this because I don't get that same level of softness from animal fats, even from grass-fed sources.

Do you get the lip ulcers from the cream, oil or young meat? I'm just wondering if it's due to the tough fiber bothering you, an allergic reaction to the protein in the mature meat (Ray says it can have this effect for some people) or coconut in general is causing your immune system to kick in. The lymphatic system is a lipid based system and serves as the "house" of the immune system.
 

Jennifer

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It's just luck. You have the genes for it. That doesn't mean that your parents had those same features, it just means that you somehow have the biology to have those features regardless of where it came from. Of course your lifestyle has some effect but it's just your nature. I've never had acne no matter what I ate so I have some kind of biology to be resistant to acne.
Yep! That's exactly what I think it's due to, also. Though, I do get negative effects, particularly from dairy - rashing and pustules. My point was that fructose and PUFAs aren't innately damaging for everyone.
 

Richiebogie

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Thanks @Jennifer for all your diet info. I read Dr Morse's book online which wasn't as much fun as his videos! His forum is pretty empty. Nothing compares to this forum!

Do you get the lip ulcers from the cream, oil or young meat?

I have only been using desiccated coconut which is the dried meat of the coconut which is 2/3 fat and 1/3 carbs and protein.

I have just begun to suspect my lip ulcers are due to a low lysine:arginine ratio! These are amino acids - from protein.

I thought this was a relatively obscure theory until I discovered all the lysine supplements for cold sores in the supermarket!

Dairy always took the ulcers away when I tried going raw vegan. It turns out dairy, fish and meat have lots of lysine and arginine but a high lysine to arginine ratio.

It seems all the nuts including tree nuts, coconuts and peanuts have low lysine and high arginine.

Interestingly, Dr Morse's most astringent fruits like berries, grapes, watermelon, cantaloupe, oranges and lemons also are low in lysine in high in arginine.

This could mean the cold sores are a necessary detox reaction!

I did think I was getting positive changes in my irises* while on coconut which stopped when I switched to avocado, mango and apple! This was when the gut settled down and the ulcers began to fade away!

(* I was born with grey blue eyes but have since had green eyes. On close inspection the green is comprised of the blue underneath with lots of yellow clumps and yellow lines radiating from the pupil outwards. Some yellow seemed to be disappearing in part of the eye but it could have been an "optical illusion"! :wink )

Here is a 'Herpes' chart showing the lysine to arginine ratio of various foods!

Herpes Nutritional Guide | What's the Lysine to Arginine ratio in foods?

If a low lysine to arginine ratio is central to detox/healing then it could be that that explains the lettuce wraps and cooked food effects of slowing detox to a more bearable level!

If you tolerate these high arginine foods then that might mean you are now in good health...
 
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Tarmander

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Detox is tough to read, yeah. Getting regular blood work helped ease my mind in the beginning when I was still learning to read my body. Now I know when I need to back off some, which for me means adding in more fat and tender lettuces. For others, it seems only cooked will slow things down. I don't know if you're aware of these, but they may be of help to you...

Detox is hard. I think it is basically impossible to tell if you are detoxing, or just starving and getting worse. Maybe with extensive blood work, but thats hard to get in an affordable way that would keep you on the right track. I tried hair mineral analysis and got things dialed in to where the practitioner was saying it looked great, and I felt terrible. I would say that if you have felt bad for a couple years, and you are getting worse, you are not detoxing. Tough to tell in the short term though. This makes me a bit suspect of Dr. Morse. I like his diet, and have added in grapes and melons, and really benefited from it. But he calls EVERYTHING detox when people question his diet. Doesn't matter what it is...oh that's mucus coming out, etc. Just something I noticed after watching 15 hours of him or so.
 

Xisca

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Xisca

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I did fruit, chicken, fish and seafood for about 3 weeks after stopping the dairy.

Then I got convinced by Robert Morse and the acid /alkaline ash theory, which was also written about by Arnold Ehret after the First World War. (He discussed mucus-forming foods and mucus-less foods which was strongly associated with a US researcher's findings on the ph of the food after metabolizing).

If you include bones, this is not true anymore!
This theory is the same for pets, just look at the 1,2 calcium phosphorus ratio on any pet food bag! If you feed them meat only + veg and rice etc, you just demineralize them, unless you give them bones or a bone powder or any special vet powder made for meat fed dogs (with a higher than 1,2 ratio for a balance). Egg shell is also used.

I would definitely keep some animal protein also for keeping the former balance of flora and keep the ability to digest it.
Not much but some.
My personal rule is to never be 100% anything. And as this rule cannot be 100% either, (very proud for the joke!) :) I avoid gluten 100%.

Don't forget we humans are too clean and picky, and that even cows are not vegan: they get some bugs from the grass.
 

Jennifer

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@Richiebogie – You're welcome! :)

Yeah, his videos are definitely more fun. I just love the convenience of his book when looking for a quick answer.

Your theory seems plausible to me. I tend to think more simplistically now so my thought was that the coconut fat's immune boosting and/or antimicrobial effect caused purging in your more congested areas (in this case your mouth area).

My mum suffered from canker sores her whole life and after switching to a high fruit cooked vegan diet, she had an outbreak and then they disappeared and haven't returned so I wouldn't be surprised if your cold sores were a sign that your body was purging.

Along with the canker sores, my mum no longer suffers from daily migraines, sinus congestion and infections (she used to get sinus infections yearly) or thick phlegm in the morning. Like me, she also expelled tonsil stones so it seems to me her body did some purging.

That's very cool what you've noticed with your eyes. Mine have slowly been turning green (previously dark brown/almost black) for a while now. Assuming iridology is credible, it seems you have sub-acute congestion. Out of curiosity, when you look at your irises in the tongue mouth lower jaw region, do you see the yellow clumping?
 

Jennifer

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Tarmaner said:
Detox is hard. I think it is basically impossible to tell if you are detoxing, or just starving and getting worse. Maybe with extensive blood work, but thats hard to get in an affordable way that would keep you on the right track.

For many, detox symptoms come in the form of common cold and flu like symptoms that eventually break and then they feel better than before the "detox" but for me, it's been much more specific to my trouble areas I've had since birth – head, gut and kidney/adrenals.

One example – the tonsil stones the size of pinto beans that I began expelling within a week of switching back to a fruitarian diet, and how the constricted throat feeling, brain fog, popping ears and stuffed sinuses I had developed while Peating on all that dairy, disappeared.

But when you say starving, do you mean creating deficiencies or actually wasting away? If it's the latter, assuming people aren't actually starving themselves by under-eating, doing extreme water or dry fasts etc., then I would question if there's some malabsorption going on.

Tarmander said:
I tried hair mineral analysis and got things dialed in to where the practitioner was saying it looked great, and I felt terrible.

Yep, I believe that. My experience with RBTI was similar. Were you able to dial it in on diet alone or did it require supplementation?

Tarmander said:
I would say that if you have felt bad for a couple years, and you are getting worse, you are not detoxing.

I agree 100%! If someone has felt bad for a couple years and is only getting worse, it seems to me they're unaware of what actual symptoms of detoxing are and/or too invested in false beliefs. They seem to miss the regenerative part, a natural result of cleaning house, which would mean feeling progressively better, not worse.

I do think that it can take some a while before they're "cured," but the total sum of steps forward should be greater than steps back. It seems obvious, but extreme tendencies mixed with desperation, fear, pride and a no pain no gain mentality that our society fosters, often keep people invested in false beliefs even to their own detriment.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, detox to me is something our bodies are doing all the time. My goal from the beginning has been about optimizing the function of my detoxifying pathways (eliminative systems) like my kidneys and skin that I know are my weak points based not only on tests, but even more so on my history/experiences, as well as my family's history.

Tarmander said:
Tough to tell in the short term though. This makes me a bit suspect of Dr. Morse. I like his diet, and have added in grapes and melons, and really benefited from it. But he calls EVERYTHING detox when people question his diet. Doesn't matter what it is...oh that's mucus coming out, etc. Just something I noticed after watching 15 hours of him or so.

Yeah, that's something I've noticed with all experts – they tend to have a strong focus on specific things and relate most issues back to them. I figure that's a non-issue if we're not blindly following what any expert says, but instead reasonably and carefully experimenting for ourselves whether a theory holds any truth for us or not.
 

Tarmander

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For many, detox symptoms come in the form of common cold and flu like symptoms that eventually break and then they feel better than before the "detox" but for me, it's been much more specific to my trouble areas I've had since birth – head, gut and kidney/adrenals.

One example – the tonsil stones the size of pinto beans that I began expelling within a week of switching back to a fruitarian diet, and how the constricted throat feeling, brain fog, popping ears and stuffed sinuses I had developed while Peating on all that dairy, disappeared.

But when you say starving, do you mean creating deficiencies or actually wasting away? If it's the latter, assuming people aren't actually starving themselves by under-eating, doing extreme water or dry fasts etc., then I would question if there's some malabsorption going on.



Yep, I believe that. My experience with RBTI was similar. Were you able to dial it in on diet alone or did it require supplementation?



I agree 100%! If someone has felt bad for a couple years and is only getting worse, it seems to me they're unaware of what actual symptoms of detoxing are and/or too invested in false beliefs. They seem to miss the regenerative part, a natural result of cleaning house, which would mean feeling progressively better, not worse.

I do think that it can take some a while before they're "cured," but the total sum of steps forward should be greater than steps back. It seems obvious, but extreme tendencies mixed with desperation, fear, pride and a no pain no gain mentality that our society fosters, often keep people invested in false beliefs even to their own detriment.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, detox to me is something our bodies are doing all the time. My goal from the beginning has been about optimizing the function of my detoxifying pathways (eliminative systems) like my kidneys and skin that I know are my weak points based not only on tests, but even more so on my history/experiences, as well as my family's history.



Yeah, that's something I've noticed with all experts – they tend to have a strong focus on specific things and relate most issues back to them. I figure that's a non-issue if we're not blindly following what any expert says, but instead reasonably and carefully experimenting for ourselves whether a theory holds any truth for us or not.

For the hair mineral analysis I needed supplementation to get it dialed in. I appreciate your write ups Jennifer, very informative.

When I say starving, I assume that when you do a grape or watermelon fast, you will get less calories and less broad spectrum nutrients? I imagine it is very hard to eat or drink 3k calorie worth of grapes...but I haven't tried it, so I will go by what you say. But in that situation I would imagine craving other foods,denying yourself, and starting to feel symptoms that could be either not having other foods your body is craving, orrrrr detox. It would be tough to know which...

So for example I am eating mostly fruit, and then some egg yolks, liver, and some coconut oil. I am basically on Morse's detox diet, but with the extra nutrition coming from egg yolks and liver. However, I am not going through any detox symptoms at this moment. I feel fine and energetic, no cold, nothing. HOWEVER, if I took out the egg yolks, coconut oil, and liver, I would start to feel a little strung out, a little too energetic, move a little too fast, sleep poorly...and when I become sick, would it be detox or just getting sick because I am lacking things? That is kind of what I am getting at.
 

Richiebogie

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Re animal food being acid forming:
If you include bones, this is not true anymore!
When I used to eat quail I would chew up all the bones. Maybe the ph of the raw animal food is more alkaline if you consume the whole animal... Possibly even the metabolized residue is alkaline...

However other issues with animal food according to Dr Morse is that the protein is excessive and in an unusable form. Breaking it down and eliminating it taxes the liver and kidneys, lowering their ability to purify the blood (and lymph -Dr Morse believes the middle and lower lymph drains into the adrenal glands and kidneys and does not flow up the thoracic duct into a vein).

Also if you are eating lamb, beef, goat etc. the dead mammal's hormones in the meat overstimulate our bodies and adrenal glands.

Animal fats and sugars may supply some energy but the animal protein robs our energy.

Inflammation? Eskimos look a tad swollen whereas raw vegans tend towards compactness of tissues.

However this is your typical vegan's viewpoint. Ray Peat is more positive toward liver, seafood, dairy and eggs!
 
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Richiebogie

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Re: my mouth ulcers being a sign of weakness and lymphatic congestion in the mouth:
Out of curiosity, when you look at your irises in the tongue mouth lower jaw region, do you see the yellow clumping?
Hi Jennifer, yes that region in my left eye is very yellow. I cannot see any blue underneath.

Curiously my bluest region in my left eye corresponds with lungs and chest. This is the region that seems to have changed the most in my iris though I haven't been able to get a focused photo of it yet, so it is just going on memory. I used to wheeze most nights and put the sheet over my head to up the CO2 / buteyko effect, but all wheezing stopped since going dairy free!

I have a deep brown dot in my left eye which seems to correspond with a hernia. I am wondering if I should take some psyllium husk or bentonite clay to aid the digestive tract... Before I try that though I will see if an apple a day will help! The pectin is supposed to form a gel and maybe carry out mucus. I had avoided apples for a few years.

Great news about you and your mum. You may have ruined pinto beans for some people though!

[For those interested in checking out their irises, the charts are for an examiner looking at you. The eye charts are mirrors of each other so if you are looking at your own eyes in the mirror, use the right eye chart for the left eye and vice versa.]
 
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lollipop

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Re: my mouth ulcers being a sign of weakness and lymphatic congestion in the mouth:
Hi Jennifer, yes that region in my left eye is very yellow. I cannot see any blue underneath.

Curiously my bluest region in my left eye corresponds with lungs and chest. This is the region that seems to have changed the most in my iris though I haven't been able to get a focused photo of it yet, so it is just going on memory. I used to wheeze most nights and put the sheet over my head to up the CO2 / buteyko effect, but all wheezing stopped since going dairy free!

I have a deep brown dot in my left eye which seems to correspond with a hernia. I am wondering if I should take some psyllium husk or bentonite clay to aid the digestive tract... Before I try that though I will see if an apple a day will help! The pectin is supposed to form a gel and maybe carry out mucus. I had avoided apples for a few years.

Great news about your mum. I now need to look up the size of pinto beans!

[For those interested in checking out their irises, the charts are for an examiner looking at you. The eye charts are mirrors of each other so if you are looking at your own eyes in the mirror, use the right eye chart for the left eye and vice versa.]
Hi @Richiebogie, maybe I missed them and please forgive if I did and you posted them. Where are the charts you are referring to?
 

Richiebogie

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Hi @lisaferraro

Here are some charts.

The left eye shows the left side of the body, and the right eye shows the right side.

The charts are symmetrical except for things like appendix and rectum.

Left Eye Iris Iridology Chart | Iridology Chart

Dr Bernard Jensen told a story of a European who discovered the mapping. I believe he helped an eagle which broke its wing. All of a sudden the eagle had a mark appear in its eye. This made him suspect that the iris mapped the body. Further inspection slowly revealed more detail!

I believe Dr Jensen added more detail to the German charts.

Dr Jensen mentored Dr Morse.

Dr Morse has hinted that he may publish a more detailed map going on what he has discovered in his 40 years as a naturopath.
 
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lollipop

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Hi @lisaferraro

Here are some charts.

The left eye shows the left side of the body, and the right eye shows the right side.

The charts are symmetrical except for things like appendix and rectum.

Left Eye Iris Iridology Chart | Iridology Chart

Dr Jensen told a story of a European who discovered the mapping. I believe he helped an eagle which broke its wing. All of a sudden the eagle had a mark appear in its eye. This made him suspect that the iris mapped the body. Further inspection slowly revealed more detail!
Awesome. Thank you @Richiebogie! Cool story, actually makes sense. Nature is perhaps one of our best teachers out there.
 

Richiebogie

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Hi @lisaferraro,

The other theory with iridology is that there are only 2 underlying iris colours, blue and light brown.

White, yellow, orange and dark brown pigments that sit on top represent problems like mucus build up (to protect from acidity) and sulfur from antibiotics and other drugs.

Tumors tend to reside in lymph ducts and lymph nodes where detoxification has broken down.

The body encapsulates toxins until it's detox pathways are restored...

Under this view, bombarding tumors with radiation and chemo drugs is like releasing more acid into your pool before you have neutralised the last assault.

Detox is painful because the body is methodically releasing the toxins for neutralization and expulsion.

(Is it true, or merely woo?)
 

Constatine

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A piece of the puzzle is that any super restricted diet will cause trouble long term. Forcing yourself to eat certain foods over and over again overrides the body's natural cravings which tell us what to eat and what not to eat in this very moment. Animals (including humans) crave foods because they are beneficial to them in the current circumstance. If you are drinking orange juice every day and suddenly hate orange juice then you should stop drinking orange juice. Some animals even seek out and ingest certain bacteria because it regulates their immune system and what not. Paying attention to the body's natural cravings is the easiest way to good health.
 
L

lollipop

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A piece of the puzzle is that any super restricted diet will cause trouble long term. Forcing yourself to eat certain foods over and over again overrides the body's natural cravings which tell us what to eat and what not to eat in this very moment. Animals (including humans) crave foods because they are beneficial to them in the current circumstance. If you are drinking orange juice every day and suddenly hate orange juice then you should stop drinking orange juice. Some animals even seek out and ingest certain bacteria because it regulates their immune system and what not. Paying attention to the body's natural cravings is the easiest way to good health.
+1
 
L

lollipop

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Hi @lisaferraro,

The other theory with iridology is that there are only 2 underlying iris colours, blue and light brown.

White, yellow, orange and dark brown pigments that sit on top represent problems like mucus build up (to protect from acidity) and sulfur from antibiotics and other drugs.

Tumors tend to reside in lymph ducts and lymph nodes where detoxification has broken down.

The body encapsulates toxins until it's detox pathways are restored...

Under this view, bombarding tumors with radiation and chemo drugs is like releasing more acid into your pool before you have neutralised the last assault.

Detox is painful because the body is methodically releasing the toxins for neutralization and expulsion.

(Is it true, or merely woo?)
Interesting. I will read up on it. I appreciate your introduction and taking the time :): Intuitively makes sense. We see on the skin problems in the gut. It does not seem a long stretch to be able to see internal conditions in the iris.
 

Xisca

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A piece of the puzzle is that any super restricted diet will cause trouble long term. Forcing yourself to eat certain foods over and over again overrides the body's natural cravings which tell us what to eat and what not to eat in this very moment. Animals (including humans) crave foods because they are beneficial to them in the current circumstance. If you are drinking orange juice every day and suddenly hate orange juice then you should stop drinking orange juice. Some animals even seek out and ingest certain bacteria because it regulates their immune system and what not. Paying attention to the body's natural cravings is the easiest way to good health.
+2

This is the same thing as paying attention to the felt sense of our emotions, so that the body can regulate them!

The difficulty is to be able to feel the body feelings, and to deal with the current benefice Vs long term. The body chooses short term. I begin to suspect that the challenge is that short term and long term get closer and even match as often as possible... I think our bodies always deal with the current circumstances, another way to see the here and now!
 

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