If I Can Only Afford Like Two Tests

[Nestito]

Should I just do total cholesterol and TSH (I know this is arbitrary) just to see if I can start thyroid supplementation? I've been peating for like a year, and I feel like the only thing missing is thyroid. Without cigarettes my pulse remains at the high 60s/low70s.

What do you all say?

 

[yerrag]

It isn't enough to give you an accurate diagnosis.

Lately, I've learned to use a neuro hammer to test on my brother the Achilles tendon reflex test. I was taught by a physical therapist who attends to my mom's rehab how to do it. He tested it on me as well, as I could not self-test it on myself.

I also used an ECG and calculated the QTc. If the QTc is lower than 0.440 msec, then it doesn't indicate a hypothyroid condition. Ray mentions a long T wave as an indication of hypothyroidism, and I believe it refers to the QT wave, although I can't be sure, as there's really little further said about it I could find in the forum or in further writings of Peat.

Here are other tests than do not involve testing the endocrine markers (TSH, T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3), taken from a Ray Peat article Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.:

The “basal” metabolic rate, especially if the rate of carbon dioxide production is measured, is very useful. The amount of water and calories disposed of in a day can give a rough idea of the metabolic rate.

The T wave on the electrocardiogram, and the relaxation rate on the Achilles reflex test are useful.

Blood tests for cholesterol, albumin, glucose, sodium, lactate, total thyroxine and total T3 are useful to know, because they help to evaluate the present thyroid status, and sometimes they can suggest ways to correct the problem.

Less common blood or urine tests (adrenaline, cortisol, ammonium, free fatty acids), if they are available, can help to understand compensatory reactions to hypothyroidism.

There are Youtube videos on the Achilles Reflex Test and also tutorials on interpreting ECG calculating the QTc.

Some ECG results already give you the QTc, whereas some don't, and you have to calculate the QTc value.

Accurately diagnosing the thyroid conditions is a must, as hypothyroid is underdiagnosed especially by conventional medical doctorsa. If one has a false negative, one would be trying to fix himself by various therapies and medication, and would be going in circles. Yet one can't just assume being hypothyroid and start taking thyroid medication. I don't know if that will lead to becoming hyperthyroid, but if it does then one is creating another problem.

I think many or most of us here rely on using TSH, T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3 - all of them - to get as accurate a diagnosis as possible. Yes, it is expensive. And in other countries, Reverse T3 is either unavailable or very expensive. It would cost me $150 for the Reverse T3 test alone.

If you are resourceful, you can find a physical therapist to do the Achilles reflex test on you. He has more familiarity with its use, although he may not be using it regularly enough to be proficient initially but at least he has had training on it. If you show him the Youtube videos, it will help. After that, you can buy your own neuro hammer and test it on your siblings or friends.

As with ECG, if the ECG you get doesn't give you QTc values and you can't compute the QTc, you may want to go to the nearest hospital and look for an ECG technician and for a fee he can get you the QTc. I hesitate going to doctors but they can give you the QTc as well but then I personally don't like to deal with conventional doctors.

I think these two tests would be good starting points. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Temperature readings are also good, but living in a tropical country, where climate is at times hot and humid, temperature readings are not as useful in temperate countries. Ray Peat has mentioned this. I believe that was in his own "Generative Energy."

 

[Ella]

Just my 2 cents.

Invaluable advice for 2 cents.

Yes I think we should make more use of the ECG test. Search for a doctor who is willing to work as a partner. There are more and more these days as I do many workshops with the older ones and also increasing numbers of young ones which never happened in my younger days. So times, they are a-changing. :)

Achille Reflex heel test is tricky when doing on self :)

 

[yerrag]

Invaluable advice for 2 cents.

Yes I think we should make more use of the ECG test. Search for a doctor who is willing to work as a partner. There are more and more these days as I do many workshops with the older ones and also increasing numbers of young ones which never happened in my younger days. So times, they are a-changing. :)

Achille Reflex heel test is tricky when doing on self :)

Glad to hear times are a-changing Ella. How do doctors act as partners? Really curious.

The conventional doctor whom I deal with, my mom's physician, is easy to work with. I avoid telling her Peat stuff though, as I can easily be seen as preachy and I just easily get ignored. But she has an open ear and doesn't talk down to me. When she would give my mom medication, I would often research that medication and its side-effects. If I felt my mom didn't really need that medication, I would let the doctor know my mom's history of health, and explain why I feel that the medication is not needed, without even dwelving on side-effects as I sense doctors are pretty much allergic to hearing that word. It gets them on the defensive. I get her pulse and know they would like patients who can talk with reason, and I try to be reasonable. I get that they're training is not the best, with little emphasis on nutrition and more on prescription drugs. They rely too much on tests and much less on observation, and it's unfortunate. But I also understand they have a long patient workload, and taking time to observe is a luxury for them. In this sense, I guess I can 'partner' with them by providing them some insights I get from being able to observe the patient more thoroughly.

But most doctors don't afford me the chance to be a partner, and would rather that I be a disciple to their being the guru. I should just say 'yes' and 'amen.' I even prefer doctors who are not "stars" in their department and even avoid "department heads." Rightly or wrongly, I feel they get to be in that position more by kissing **** than by being good. By kissing **** I mean they curry favor with pharma companies and they get to be popular because they have funds for all sorts of shindigs. That is how I see it, but my perspective is limited as I am not looking at it from the inside.

 

[Dan W]

That's really cool on using the ECG.

Should I just do total cholesterol and TSH...

If money's an issue and you're in the US, you can knock out cholesterol and some of the other markers Peat has mentioned for $26 at the moment: Chemistry Panel & Complete Blood Count (CBC) Blood Test

 

[yerrag]

That's really cool on using the ECG.

It would be even more cool if there's a limited functionality ECG that only measures the QTc, with an app available for it, that would help determine hypothyroid. Something that costs from $50-$100.

It would be one of those things where doctors would either love it or hate it, depending on which side of the fence he's in.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Just buy the thyroid with the money

 

[yerrag]

No kidding. Then I need a device to test for hyperthyroid instead!

 

[Nestito]

It isn't enough to give you an accurate diagnosis.

Lately, I've learned to use a neuro hammer to test on my brother the Achilles tendon reflex test. I was taught by a physical therapist who attends to my mom's rehab how to do it. He tested it on me as well, as I could not self-test it on myself.

I also used an ECG and calculated the QTc. If the QTc is lower than 0.440 msec, then it doesn't indicate a hypothyroid condition. Ray mentions a long T wave as an indication of hypothyroidism, and I believe it refers to the QT wave, although I can't be sure, as there's really little further said about it I could find in the forum or in further writings of Peat.

Here are other tests than do not involve testing the endocrine markers (TSH, T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3), taken from a Ray Peat article Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.:

The “basal” metabolic rate, especially if the rate of carbon dioxide production is measured, is very useful. The amount of water and calories disposed of in a day can give a rough idea of the metabolic rate.

The T wave on the electrocardiogram, and the relaxation rate on the Achilles reflex test are useful.

Blood tests for cholesterol, albumin, glucose, sodium, lactate, total thyroxine and total T3 are useful to know, because they help to evaluate the present thyroid status, and sometimes they can suggest ways to correct the problem.

Less common blood or urine tests (adrenaline, cortisol, ammonium, free fatty acids), if they are available, can help to understand compensatory reactions to hypothyroidism.

There are Youtube videos on the Achilles Reflex Test and also tutorials on interpreting ECG calculating the QTc.

Some ECG results already give you the QTc, whereas some don't, and you have to calculate the QTc value.

Accurately diagnosing the thyroid conditions is a must, as hypothyroid is underdiagnosed especially by conventional medical doctorsa. If one has a false negative, one would be trying to fix himself by various therapies and medication, and would be going in circles. Yet one can't just assume being hypothyroid and start taking thyroid medication. I don't know if that will lead to becoming hyperthyroid, but if it does then one is creating another problem.

I think many or most of us here rely on using TSH, T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3 - all of them - to get as accurate a diagnosis as possible. Yes, it is expensive. And in other countries, Reverse T3 is either unavailable or very expensive. It would cost me $150 for the Reverse T3 test alone.

If you are resourceful, you can find a physical therapist to do the Achilles reflex test on you. He has more familiarity with its use, although he may not be using it regularly enough to be proficient initially but at least he has had training on it. If you show him the Youtube videos, it will help. After that, you can buy your own neuro hammer and test it on your siblings or friends.

As with ECG, if the ECG you get doesn't give you QTc values and you can't compute the QTc, you may want to go to the nearest hospital and look for an ECG technician and for a fee he can get you the QTc. I hesitate going to doctors but they can give you the QTc as well but then I personally don't like to deal with conventional doctors.

I think these two tests would be good starting points. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Temperature readings are also good, but living in a tropical country, where climate is at times hot and humid, temperature readings are not as useful in temperate countries. Ray Peat has mentioned this. I believe that was in his own "Generative Energy."

So if I can save up and get my TSH, Free T3, Free T4, and rt3, should I be able to walk with more confidence on whether taking something like cynoplus would be ideal?

That's really cool on using the ECG.


If money's an issue and you're in the US, you can knock out cholesterol and some of the other markers Peat has mentioned for $26 at the moment: Chemistry Panel & Complete Blood Count (CBC) Blood Test

thank you!

 

[Nestito]

Thyroid #2 Essential Panel Blood Test plus Reverse T3

I can afford something like this. Is this a reputable site? and what's the deal with free serum values versus total values, that I've read about. For example, Peat preferring total t3/t4 instead of free t3/t4.

 

[Dan W]

Walk-in Lab is reputable, I use them frequently. Note the 20% off sale code in the banner.

I don't totally understand the free vs total thyroid hormone debate, but I think Peat believes the non-free portion is also biologically active and shouldn't be ignored. I won't speak for him, but I'd imagine the free-testing is still valuable information though.

 

[yerrag]

Thyroid #2 Essential Panel Blood Test plus Reverse T3

I can afford something like this. Is this a reputable site? and what's the deal with free serum values versus total values, that I've read about. For example, Peat preferring total t3/t4 instead of free t3/t4.

@Mittir has a better handle. My grasp on these is not very solid as well. Perhaps he can advise you.

 

[Dan W]

Walk-in Lab is reputable, I use them frequently. Note the 20% off sale code in the banner.

Although of all the providers I normally check, Life Extension is also the cheapest for that panel: Thyroid Panel with Reverse T3 Blood Test

As yerrag alluded to, the reverse T3 can be costly. If you're willing to do without it, there's cheap TSH + free-T3/T4 panels that go on sale frequently.

 

[Nestito]

Although of all the providers I normally check, Life Extension is also the cheapest for that panel: Thyroid Panel with Reverse T3 Blood Test

As yerrag alluded to, the reverse T3 can be costly. If you're willing to do without it, there's cheap TSH + free-T3/T4 panels that go on sale frequently.

thank you so much again. I have one last question. I am an avid smoker. Should I stop my habit for a couple weeks before testing as I'm sure it affects my TSH levels or just get tested before trying to quit and see where I'm at with it.

basically, if I am hypothyroid, will smoking cause a false negative with the results?

 

[Atman]

Don't ditch the total cholesterol test.
It should be extremely cheap, like under 10 bucks or so.

 

[Nestito]

Don't ditch the total cholesterol test.
It should be extremely cheap, like under 10 bucks or so.

Definitely won't ditch!

 

[Such_Saturation]

In my experience the tests won't come back anything abnormal, you'll be normal conventionally and sick unconventionally... and end up trying thyroid anyway. Haven't seen anyone take the blood test and then say "thank god, now I know I don't need thyroid"

 

[schultz]

Just buy the thyroid with the money

Haha I was going to say something almost identical to this...

If you can only afford two tests, and you find out you're hypothyroid, you won't have any money for thyroid medication. Might as well just get some cynoplus with the money and see if it helps.

 

[trew]

don't bother with that thyroid panel

you need:

tsh, cholesterol, prolactin, parathyroid hormone

 

[yerrag]

don't bother with that thyroid panel

you need:

tsh, cholesterol, prolactin, parathyroid hormone

Would be more helpful if you can explain the thought process that goes into this.