If Estrogen Is So Bad, Why Does It Immediately Help

[Peatress]

Hello! Thank you very much for your comment, I appreciate your supportive input...

I don't take any progesterone at all. It immediately makes me bloated, I retain water in my legs, I get anhedonia and laziness and brain fog.

Yes, I'm aware of what Peat says about estrogen. Apparently he thinks that the arms and legs are making more estrogen than ovaries, I would even go so far as to say I think he is wrong about estrogen. At least for women like me with lower body fat. It's very possible that the majority of women our age or estrogen dominant but I don't think that's my experience at all.

The estrogen cream will definitely help those symptoms that you mentioned. A quick Google search will come up with loads and loads of studies supporting this.

I’m not sure what your motivation is for misrepresenting Dr. Peat. If you are going to say something like this it would be helpful for you to provide us with evidence and context.

 

[LadyRae]

I’m not sure what your motivation is for misrepresenting Dr. Peat. If you are going to say something like this it would be helpful for you to provide us with evidence and context.

You're the one that posted the video clip yesterday! It's in the first minute of it...

 

[LadyRae]

@Peatress "If it helps you and you believe it's safe then who can argue with that?"

- what happened to this sentiment that you were feeling yesterday?

 

[Peatress]

You're the one that posted the video clip yesterday! It's in the first minute of it...

Well if that is the case then you did misrepresent him.

@Peatress "If it helps you and you believe it's safe then who can argue with that?"

- what happened to this sentiment that you were feeling yesterday?

This has not changed. I'm just making sure we are clear what Dr Peat says about estrogen as this the Ray Peat forum.

 

[LadyRae]

Well if that is the case then you did misrepresent him.

This has not changed. I'm just making sure we are clear what Dr Peat says about estrogen as this the Ray Peat forum.

What?? YOU posted the video clip and I listened to it. He CLEARLY says that the arms and legs are making more estrogen than ovaries! I'm not misrepresenting anything!

This was YOUR clip!

I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone and quit being so contrary to everything I post. There are a lot of people that want this information. Several people within this forum have privately messaged me to learn more about estrogen therapy and my experience. If it's something YOU disagree with, fine. I'm not going to argue with you anymore because it distracts from the actual topic.

 

[Peatress]

What?? YOU posted the video clip and I listened to it. He CLEARLY says that the arms and legs are making more estrogen than ovaries! I'm not misrepresenting anything!

This was YOUR clip!

I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone and quit being so contrary to everything I post. There are a lot of people that want this information. Several people within this forum have privately messaged me to learn more about estrogen therapy and my experience. If it's something YOU disagree with, fine. I'm not going to argue with you anymore because it distracts from the actual topic.

Wtf. Listen to the clip I posted and transcribe exactly what Dr. Peat said. DO whatever your want with estrogen but please stop disrespecting Dr Peat.

 

[LadyRae]

Wtf. Listen to the clip I posted and transcribe exactly what Dr. Peat said. DO whatever your want with estrogen but please stop disrespecting Dr Peat.

I think it'd be a better idea if you listen to the clip

 

[Peatress]

I think it'd be a better idea if you listen to the clip

You said: “Apparently he thinks that the arms and legs are making more estrogen than ovaries, I would even go so far as to say I think he is wrong about estrogen.”

Dr Peat said: “In the 40s and 50s they were taking out women's ovaries and pituitaries to treat breast cancer not knowing that the estrogen isn't coming primarily from the ovaries. In experiments with monkeys someone actually measured the amount of estrogen coming out minute by minute from the ovaries and the control they measured the estrogen coming out of the arm vein and they found that the arm was producing just as much estrogen as the ovaries.”

It looks like the estrogen is doing exactly what estrogen does.

 

[LadyRae]

You said: “Apparently he thinks that the arms and legs are making more estrogen than ovaries, I would even go so far as to say I think he is wrong about estrogen.”

Dr Peat said: “In the 40s and 50s they were taking out women's ovaries and pituitaries to treat breast cancer not knowing that the estrogen isn't coming primarily from the ovaries. In experiments with monkeys someone actually measured the amount of estrogen coming out minute by minute from the ovaries and the control they measured the estrogen coming out of the arm vein and they found that the arm was producing just as much estrogen as the ovaries.”

It looks like the estrogen is doing exactly what estrogen does.

Oh good, you finally listen to it yourself. If you had continued to busily write out every word, you would have discovered that he also said, right after that, that the arms and legs were (actually!) making more estrogen. Honestly, he sounds like a quack here!

Isn't this forum full of evidence showing that serum estrogen is not a good indicator of overall body estrogen?

I'm hoping you are right and that estrogen will continue to do exactly what estrogen does, for me

 

[Peatress]

Oh good, you finally listen to it yourself. If you had continued to busily write out every word, you would have discovered that he also said, right after that, that the arms and legs were (actually!) making more estrogen. Honestly, he sounds like a quack here!

Isn't this forum full of evidence showing that serum estrogen is not a good indicator of overall body estrogen?

I'm hoping you are right and that estrogen will continue to do exactly what estrogen does, for me

Again you are misrepresenting him - the arms and legs making estrogen - not more estrogen.

I can't be bothered to transcribe the rest of the interview because anyone who wants to hear exactly what dr Peat said can listen to it and make up their mind.

This a Ray Peat forum, if he is a quack you know what to do.

 

[Ildikó]

Oh good, you finally listen to it yourself. If you had continued to busily write out every word, you would have discovered that he also said, right after that, that the arms and legs were (actually!) making more estrogen. Honestly, he sounds like a quack here!

Isn't this forum full of evidence showing that serum estrogen is not a good indicator of overall body estrogen?

I'm hoping you are right and that estrogen will continue to do exactly what estrogen does, for me

Yes, i agree that maybe some women do need estrogen supplementation . The main issue here is the balance probably and to make sure that we protect ourselves from the xenoestrogens.
Dr Peat also mentioned that there is no available testing to show how much estrogen is in the tissues. In the study where they measured the estrogen in the monkeys arm it was taken from their arm veins. So that was systemic just like when we go to have blood test from our arms to find out our estrogen levels.
In different studies on the pubmed it is also clear that there are several types of estrogens. One is stronger, more harmful than the other.
There are so many different study can be found on the internet and even the expert do not agree so who are we to decide. Women who are going through the menopausal transition or are postmenopausal i have severe symptoms are trying every possible alternative remedy to help but unfortunately sometimes nothing else help but the bioidentical hormones ie. the progesteron and or the bioedentical estrogen in balance.
Some women, including myself have to deal with the symptoms over 10-15 years. I do agree that we need the least harmful options but at the end who will tell.

There are a lot of medical articles mentioning menopause as a transitional period in a womans life and after we are on the other side everything will be ok.
No, being on the other side brings all the additional health issues caused by being postmenopausal.
There is no real help from doctors and it is very difficult to find functional experts who is capable to help.
I do not think that we have to be so dogmatic on either side and that is what Dr Peat always mentioned.

 

[Ildikó]

Yes, i agree that maybe some women do need estrogen supplementation . The main issue here is the balance probably and to make sure that we protect ourselves from the xenoestrogens.
Dr Peat also mentioned that there is no available testing to show how much estrogen is in the tissues. In the study where they measured the estrogen in the monkeys arm it was taken from their arm veins. So that was systemic just like when we go to have blood test from our arms to find out our estrogen levels.
In different studies on the pubmed it is also clear that there are several types of estrogens. One is stronger, more harmful than the other.
There are so many different study can be found on the internet and even the expert do not agree so who are we to decide. Women who are going through the menopausal transition or are postmenopausal i have severe symptoms are trying every possible alternative remedy to help but unfortunately sometimes nothing else help but the bioidentical hormones ie. the progesteron and or the bioedentical estrogen in balance.
Some women, including myself have to deal with the symptoms over 10-15 years. I do agree that we need the least harmful options but at the end who will tell.

There are a lot of medical articles mentioning menopause as a transitional period in a womans life and after we are on the other side everything will be ok.
No, being on the other side brings all the additional health issues caused by being postmenopausal.
There is no real help from doctors and it is very difficult to find functional experts who is capable to help.
I do not think that we have to be so dogmatic on either side and that is what Dr

 

[Ildikó]

Please, listen to this interview also! Helps to broaden our knowledge about hormones and womans health.

 

[Blossom]

@Ildikó, thank you. This is another interview I found informative and balanced by Peter Attia.

View: https://youtu.be/8bRuzA-qd0s

 

[Elderflower j58]

This is a great passage from John Lee's book John Lee who was very much influenced about progesterone by RAY PEAT

 

[LadyRae]

@Ildikó great points! Thanks, I'll check it out. As a 45 year woman

View attachment 50838

This is a great passage from John Lee's book John Lee who was very much influenced about progesterone by RAY PEAT

Sounds a bit more balanced. I'd be willing to bet that most women here have given progesterone a good try and have found it lacking. If one is still experiencing symptoms and progesterone isn't working, the low dose estriol can be very helpful for vaginal dryness, leakage, sex drive, etc.

Although I'm applying my cream topically, and not intra-vaginally, Estrogen therapy has cured my slight bladder leakage I'd experience when jumping or jogging... Also my insomnia has disappeared and libido has returned.

 

[Happycat]

With all the progesterone I am taking, I should have a raging libido, but I don't, so I think something else is missing.
I would never give up my Progesterone, but as much as I love it, there are some lingering issues.

 

[Nik665]

The Ray Peat ideas make a lot of sense to me, some are hard for me to agree with, but the Estrogen/Progesterone ideas seem so straight forward, but my wife went through early menopause according to multiple doctors, naturepaths, is supposedly not producing any hormones so they put her on estrogen/progesterone. (They are bio identical she says).
As she constantly adjusts the amounts to dial it in to maximum benefit, she leans toward lower estrogen as I always mention the things I read and hear from Haidut on Danny Roddy podcasts.
Well, she ran out of estrogen, so I asked her to try just the progesterone until she gets the Estrogen and IMMEDIATELY the vaginal dryness comes back.
Also, estrogen gets rid of the hot flashes.

Searching the forum, no one has a solution for vaginal dryness. Suppository's might help some a little.

So here is something hard to ponder, If estrogen is so bad, how come it immediately helps with a specific health issue?

This issue isn't like baldness that nothing fixes, this is an issue that nothing else seems to fix.

I don’t think estrogen is all bad women need some definitely. I think it’s more important to focus on the ratio of progesterone to estrogen and it’s easy to tilt the ratio towards high estrogen which can lead to several issues

 

[Blossom]

Here’s my estrogen levels about 3 months ago. Some males on this forum are higher than me.

 

[Momma]

Here’s my estrogen levels about 3 months ago. Some males on this forum are higher than me.View attachment 50844

Vitamin A is important for steroid hormones. Actually, it’s retonoic acid (a metabolite of VA) ; the steroid hormones being prog, estrogen and testosterone.
Cholesterol is needed for our steroid hormones as well (in conjunction with VD). And lastly, these hormones are produced by the adrenal cortex iirc. If any of these three things are suboptimal- that’s a great starting place imo.