If Androgens Don't Cause Hair Loss How Does One Explain This Study?

[Peater]

I was a heavy weed smoke for quite a few years and am very happy i quit a few years ago. I wasted alot of youthful energy and it only weakened my vitality. Didn't help my hair either but I was in a bad place in those years....

Well done for getting off that crap. The sudden legalisation as the world slowly goes insane is interesting. I can understand the need some might have for SOMA

 

[Inaut]

It’s funny you brought legalization up. When it became legal I quit

 

[Broken man]

It was an exaggeration. Nuking estrogen down and increasing androgens doesn't work. Doing the opposite definitely does. Obviously I'm not saying androgens are the cause of hair loss, but they definitely speed things up.

African men are high androgens And have good hair.

 

[Broken man]

It was an exaggeration. Nuking estrogen down and increasing androgens doesn't work. Doing the opposite definitely does. Obviously I'm not saying androgens are the cause of hair loss, but they definitely speed things up.

Also search for DHT by member "Travis" but please write this name and use enter, searching browser will not show his name, you will find a post where he cited study showing DHT stimulating growth od hair. If I Will have time, I will find IT.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I can't show private pics of other people. You have to believe me.

See, the thing is though, I don't believe you.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Well, most stoners also tend to be young, usually in their 20s. People never consider that as a confounder. I knew a guy with thinning hair who started using marijuana heavily in his late 30s. No effect on his hair at all, certainly didn't get any thicker. A co-worker of mine have been a fairly regular user of marijuana for 20 years, he is mostly bald. Joe Rogan, totally bald, and he says he regularly smokes marijuana.

Yes, agree - age is biggest determining factor in hair loss.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Do we have any common points between men who keep almost a perfect hairline well in their 30s, 40s?
Think male actor Eddie Cibrian (Google him).

Those common points I see are

• They generally have high T traits and masculine traits, but not to an extreme.
• They are generally fit and naturally carry some muscle mass
• High metabolism during teenage and youth carrying on into adulthood. Think stereotypical jocks, born with defined abs
• They are generall healthy looking, due to proper development, nutrition, exposure to Testosterone.
• Proper facial development and posture since early age

 

[Nicko]

Yes, agree - age is biggest determining factor in hair loss.

I would say genetics...

 

[TheBeard]

Can you point me to a study with aromatase deficiency? If aromatase deficiency man had hair on scalp, Its good sign because aromatase means estrogen.

I am a prime exemple of this.
I have been very estrogen deprived for the past 2 years, and still a full head of hair

 

[Broken man]

I am a prime exemple of this.
I have been very estrogen deprived for the past 2 years, and still a full head of hair

Thank you, I think So...

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I would say genetics...

OFc, but besides that.

 

[GorillaHead]

Testosterone and estrogen can both be responsible for hairloss, in vitro they both inhibit hair growth to the same degree. Anecdotally, I have a full head of hair at 32, meanwhile my father and grandfather both were fully bald in their early 20s. Mine started to fall by the time I hit puberty as well but by then internet was a thing and somewhere someone said they had managed to halt their hairloss by putting caffeine pills and crushed aspirin into their shampoo. So I bought some asprine, crushed 1 gram of it into a 250 ml bottle of caffeine shampoo and washed my head with it twice a day. Within a week my hairloss stopped, and I've been doing it ever since. Whenever I stop for more than a month my hair thins out and starts falling again.

I have very high aromatase rate, I take 1.5 to 2.5 mgs of letrozole once a week in order to keep my estrogen in "normal" lab range and pee easier.

I would be careful with aromatase inhibitors. Those were the number one cause of my hairloss. If the test in ur scalp cant bind to aromtase then it will stay and cause aga or convert to dht and cause aga. Also why dont you use salycic acid shampoo. Thats a topically active form of asprin if i am not mistaken.

 

[GorillaHead]

So for everyone wondering how androgens cause hair loss besides actually just binding To the follicle.

MPB is characterized by hyperkeratinization And androgens are known to cause thicker skin. Women vs men. Women have thinner skin.

Soo thats why high androgens can not only cause hair loss but acne as well. But this doesn't always play out as serum and skin tissue hormonal expression varies by genetics.

Interestingly when they sent rats up to space their skin thinned out but their hair started growing like crazy which is apparently what minoxidil does.

all in all tho they found high histamine levels in balding scalp. Some Anti histamines can actually be anti androgenic.

Maybe its safe to say histamine cause androgens to up-regulate. The big question is why are mast cells on our scalp releasing histamine.


Gender-Related Effects of Sex Steroids on Histamine Release and FcεRI Expression in Rat Peritoneal Mast Cells

According to that journal histamines release can be caused by progesterone and estrogen.

Personally I believe low estrogen in serum will def put you at lesser of a risk of going bald. The thing is trying to artificially inhibit aromatase by binding to it will result in hairloss as whatever this artificial mechanism is, it will find its way into the skin. We need some way to reduce aromatase expression in serum only.

 

[GorillaHead]

So for everyone wondering how androgens cause hair loss besides actually just binding To the follicle.

MPB is characterized by hyperkeratinization And androgens are known to cause thicker skin. Women vs men. Women have thinner skin.

Soo thats why high androgens can not only cause hair loss but acne as well. But this doesn't always play out as serum and skin tissue hormonal expression varies by genetics.

Interestingly when they sent rats up to space their skin thinned out but their hair started growing like crazy which is apparently what minoxidil does.

all in all tho they found high histamine levels in balding scalp. Some Anti histamines can actually be anti androgenic.

Maybe its safe to say histamine cause androgens to up-regulate. The big question is why are mast cells on our scalp releasing histamine.


Gender-Related Effects of Sex Steroids on Histamine Release and FcεRI Expression in Rat Peritoneal Mast Cells

According to that journal histamines release can be caused by progesterone and estrogen.

Personally I believe low estrogen in serum will def put you at lesser of a risk of going bald. The thing is trying to artificially inhibit aromatase by binding to it will result in hairloss as whatever this artificial mechanism is, it will find its way into the skin. We need some way to reduce aromatase expression in serum only.

Also search for DHT by member "Travis" but please write this name and use enter, searching browser will not show his name, you will find a post where he cited study showing DHT stimulating growth od hair. If I Will have time, I will find IT.

dht can cause hair growth but it needs aromatase to do it. An imbalance will result in lack of hair at least based on what I have seen.

 

[GorillaHead]

Do we have any common points between men who keep almost a perfect hairline well in their 30s, 40s?
Think male actor Eddie Cibrian (Google him).

Those common points I see are

• They generally have high T traits and masculine traits, but not to an extreme.
• They are generally fit and naturally carry some muscle mass
• High metabolism during teenage and youth carrying on into adulthood. Think stereotypical jocks, born with defined abs
• They are generall healthy looking, due to proper development, nutrition, exposure to Testosterone.
• Proper facial development and posture since early age

I googled this man. Not only does he have descent hair recession. He also has a very very minor case of gynecomastia not visible to the trained eye lol.


Guys hairloss is basically one massive labyrinth we have Walked by the true cause over and over we just don’t know!




Anyone care to take a stab at this scenario. These photos are of men with very low serum estradiol.

• They are abnormally (a study a while Back said men with androgenic alopecia would likely be short. ).
• They have zero hair recession.
• They have subcutaneous body fat.
• They have zero gynecomastia
  
• One thing to note is in women with aromatase deficiency they experience what we consider androgenic side effects. Body hair. Acne.

So does Low serum estradiol result in up regulation of skin estradiol in men?
Why the difference in women.

Someone ?

 

[Goobz]

They may not have the "puffy nipple" gynecomastia, but they have something that resembles gyno. They have clear fat accumulation in the chest area, along with all their abdominal fat. The typical unhealthy older male, "man boobs" look.

 

[Opioidus]

I would be careful with aromatase inhibitors. Those were the number one cause of my hairloss. If the test in ur scalp cant bind to aromtase then it will stay and cause aga or convert to dht and cause aga. Also why dont you use salycic acid shampoo. Thats a topically active form of asprin if i am not mistaken.

I don't take letrozole for hairloss or gyno, I have vericocele which has caused enlarged prostate which blocks my urine output, I've tried dozens of drugs and supplements and the only thing that increases urine flow is letrozole. But I thought I'd mention it as well. Interestingly enough, after years of letrozole, my serium Estradiol is in the middle range of "normal". So I must have insane aromatase rates naturally. Oh and for some reason that I have not been able to figure out letrozole is the only AI that works, I've tried Exemestane and another one which I can't remember to no avail.

I didn't know there is a shampoo with aspirin in it, but what I make works and is cheap so no need to change what's working.

 

[GorillaHead]

They may not have the "puffy nipple" gynecomastia, but they have something that resembles gyno, and have clear fat accumulation in the chest area. The unhealthy older male, "man boobs" look.

ya but thats not exactly gyno. Its just fat accumulation. Gyno is glandular tissue behind the nipple. I know this very well I've had surgery and first hand experience

either way its still a myster

I don't take letrozole for hairloss or gyno, I have vericocele which has caused enlarged prostate which blocks my urine output, I've tried dozens of drugs and supplements and the only thing that increases urine flow is letrozole. But I thought I'd mention it as well. Interestingly enough, after years of letrozole, my serium Estradiol is in the middle range of "normal". So I must have insane aromatase rates naturally.

I didn't know there is a shampoo with aspirin in it, but what I make works and is cheap so no need to change what's working.

so you think the letro has helped shrink your prostate. Thats amazing if so and says alot about aromatase and androgens and how they behave in tissue verses serum.

 

[Broken man]

So for everyone wondering how androgens cause hair loss besides actually just binding To the follicle.

MPB is characterized by hyperkeratinization And androgens are known to cause thicker skin. Women vs men. Women have thinner skin.

Soo thats why high androgens can not only cause hair loss but acne as well. But this doesn't always play out as serum and skin tissue hormonal expression varies by genetics.

Interestingly when they sent rats up to space their skin thinned out but their hair started growing like crazy which is apparently what minoxidil does.

all in all tho they found high histamine levels in balding scalp. Some Anti histamines can actually be anti androgenic.

Maybe its safe to say histamine cause androgens to up-regulate. The big question is why are mast cells on our scalp releasing histamine.


Gender-Related Effects of Sex Steroids on Histamine Release and FcεRI Expression in Rat Peritoneal Mast Cells

According to that journal histamines release can be caused by progesterone and estrogen.

Personally I believe low estrogen in serum will def put you at lesser of a risk of going bald. The thing is trying to artificially inhibit aromatase by binding to it will result in hairloss as whatever this artificial mechanism is, it will find its way into the skin. We need some way to reduce aromatase expression in serum only.

One thing with DHT is that its upregulated with inflammation, that is a reason why its high on scalp but there are more problems with it. I believe that even DHT can have metabolites or is used in other way when used by somebody with weak/ill body. Try think about it like DHEA even its not the same and DHT should be hard like stone against estrogen or bad environment but I think Haidut wrote that low thyroid or high estrogen leads to a fast deactivation of DHT or something like this. Good example for me is that like 1 year ago, I was unable to tolerate androgens or thyroid. After some changes, I can now tolerate really high amounts without side effects and some hairs seems like to be growing, I can photo it but its not good example because some can tell that some hairs are smaller because it fell out but I know because I am watching it everyday, my bad that I am not making photos everyday….. You have right that after eating something allergic, my hair are curly and weak and antihistamines really help. I would really like to know what happen when you use DHT, like what is with the estrogen in tissue and in blood flow? Is it really flowing searching for space? What about when you have bad liver?

 

[Zigzag]

What about exemestane. Why is it so bad for hairline?