Idealabs Comments And Suggestions

[member 6316]

dhea sulfate and pregnenolone sulfate possible as a cognitive enchancer? and perhaps progesterone sulfate if such exists.
Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate - Wikipedia
Pregnenolone sulfate - Wikipedia

 

[haidut]

Too bad. I miss a solid Progesterone product in Vitamin E/MCT. Progest-E is not solid, Health Natura is sold out and you don`t sell.

Interesting. So, HealthNatura has progesterone powder for sale?

 

[haidut]

dhea sulfate and pregnenolone sulfate possible as a cognitive enchancer? and perhaps progesterone sulfate if such exists.
Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate - Wikipedia
Pregnenolone sulfate - Wikipedia

There is no need to take these directly. Majority of pregnenolone dose over 50mg converts to PS and if you take 5mg DHEA 2-3 times daily about 5mg of that will probably become DHEA-S. The sulfated versions are just longer term storage of the unsulfated steroids.

 

[Nemo]

Haidut, I want to thank you for Oxidal and Energin. I had a problem with leg pain and stiffness, especially at night, and it got better with a Peat diet but not all the way. Oxidal and Energin cured it completely in two days. I haven't felt this good in decades.

Thanks also to Haidut and everyone here for your posts, which have greatly helped me over the past year to better implement a Peat diet.

 

[Peater Griffin]

I was at the customs office on thursday and had to open the package. When the officer saw the products he said it might be medicine and therefore he has to have the ingredient list checked (so no chemical examination of the products itself, but he had to send an ingredient list to his specialist colleagues to check the ingredient names). There was no result on friday and I had no time to check today. Hope I will find time tomorrow. I'll let you know the outcome.

 

[Anders86]

Interesting. So, HealthNatura has progesterone powder for sale?

Progesterone in Vitamin E/MCT. Progest-E is not a solid product with it`s Soy.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Evaluation of Effect of Excipients, Temperature and Humidity on the Stability of Levothyroxine Sodium - Niraj Amin

"Water is one of the major factors responsible for causing degradation in pharmaceutical formulations. It may be associated with the drug or the excipients, may be incorporated during the processing of dosage forms or may be acquired from the environment during packaging or storage. Because of its ubiquitous nature and its ability to exist as a vapour, water is virtually impossible to avoid and difficult to control. The molecular mass of water is low, and so small amounts may be significant in terms of molecular reactivity. Water is also capable of diffusing, to some extent, through packaging materials, pack seals or through compacted solid dosage forms [11]."

"Excipients with a greater affinity for moisture might aid in mitigating moisture sensitivity. Thus, formulation with a substance having a greater affinity for water as compared to the drug may help in sequestering moisture in the product. Perrier et al. [14] used nitrogen sorption isotherms to predict the effect of common excipients on the stability of nitrazepam. They determined that excipients with higher absorption energies caused less degradation, meaning, if the excipient has a higher binding energy for water as compared to the drug, the excipient may act as a desiccant and stabilize the drug. Along with moisture, residues of lower alcohols (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) might be present in the final formulation, as a result of synthesis, isolation of the drug or the process used for manufacturing the dosage form. Nimry et al. [15] and Tobyn et al. [16] showed that materials such as amorphous silica and microcrystalline cellulose may act as 'scavangers' of volatile residues and help in stabilizing the formulation."

"The shelf life for levothyroxine sodium was determined using the k-values obtained from the best fit models. The lower t9o values indicated that levothyroxine sodium is highly unstable in presence of moisture and higher temperatures and so the tablets should be formulated and stored at or below room temperature with 0% humidity."​

- Influence of Formulation and Processing Factors on Stability of Levothyroxine Sodium Pentahydrate

"Conventional isothermal stress testing approaches to drug–excipient compatibility evaluation typically involve challenging binary drug–excipient mixtures (in realistic ratios) with moisture as the majority of drug degradation reactions involve moisture (19). Increasing the moisture content may be accomplished by increasing the relative humidity of the environment, or by adding a fixed amount of water. With exposure of the samples to high humidities, the excipient–drug interaction depends upon the free moisture present and relative hygroscopicities (16). Drug degradation thus may vary depending on the hygroscopicity of the excipients (16,20). Therefore, it is suggested that a constant amount of water be added to facilitate interactions between the excipient and drug, and to surround undissolved particles with an aqueous layer saturated with drug, excipient, and any impurities present, as well as the microenvironmental pH. Literature values range from 5% to 20% added water (16,19–22). In the current study, 5% moisture was used for all the drug–excipient mixtures.

Although levothyroxine was found to be stable in solid state at accelerated temperature conditions, it degraded up to 40% in the presence of moisture when exposed to higher temperature. It is sensitive to moisture which causes its degradation rapidly as compared to its dry form."​

Zeus, you're not allowed to sell any of the research products of your store in dry form or is it just proyesterone? I know they's stable enough, but it's undeniable that moisture speeds up degradation. Remember when you went on an expedition throughout the world? If it was nowadays and you had options, I'm sure you would choose the powders whenever possible to carry with you.

- Space food - Wikipedia

By the way, lowering the temperature here was completely unnecessary, these are just suggestions and they have been polite all along. Also, the customer is always right, so what I'm saying can't be wrong.

 

[haidut]

Progesterone in Vitamin E/MCT. Progest-E is not a solid product with it`s Soy.

Thanks, I misunderstood your original comment but it is clear now.

 

[Peater Griffin]

Ok, here is my customs update:

It took the customs till yesterday to check the ingredients of MitoLipin, DeFibron and Gonadin. Today they released all 3 products to me.

The customs officer did the application on his computer. I suggested HS code 3004.90 (German customs tariff number 3004 9000 000), but the customs officer tried another number (the one for dietary supplements), because that would have had the reduced VAT rate of 7% instead of 19% (so the customs officer tried to safe me money). But it turned out that number had too many possible restrictions, seemed too complicated to the officer (I don't know the number he tried but I assume 2106.90, which is actually much more complicated since you have to put in the application form more strange codes to rule out that specific restrictions would apply to the product). So we used HS code 3004.90 after all. I paid no duty, 19% VAT and got the products released without any further questions.

@Kartoffel: I'm not so sure about DHEA and other steroids. As far as I see, the HS code for steroid hormones (the ones sold by idealabs) should be 2937.29 and according to EZT (Elektronischer Zolltarif = German customs regulations online), there are restrictions for products with that number, but private persons are explicitly excluded from these restrictions (same thing for HS code 3004.90)! So I don't really see the problem to get that stuff released as long as the customs agrees that the product belongs to that HS code. Nevertheless, I think it's correct that the German customs is looking for anabolic bodybuilding products and destroys them (e.g. Operation Pangea). Don't really know how that goes together. (Btw: I'm quite experienced in doing customs clearances for commercial companies, as that is my job. But I never did one for myself as a private person. And I usually don't clear foods, medication/drugs, etc.; I'm no expert on that. So maybe I'm overlooking something regarding the restrictions...)

EDIT: I have to correct my above text, as I rechecked the German customs regulations for HS code 3004.90 and it has much more possible restrictions than I remembered. That again means, I don't know why the application was easier for the officer with that code. And 3304.99 could probably really be the better code (in regards to restricitons) if the customs accepts it...

 

[Amazoniac]

It would be impractical for you to find a way to sell them portioned in servings (capsules or something that resembles blister packs with the content ready to be emptied), but it's the only form to assure a constant amount of each ingredient in single use. This is for blend products like Energin, not TyroMax, StressNon, etc.

Conversely, there's the option to sell them as they are right now (bottled and everything) but dry, and with instructions on how to hydrate (limiting line for example). Some customers already manipulate your formulas according to their preference, so the idea is not off. But a complicator is that some of your products include ethanol as well, yet the process has to be simple, it can't require an elaborate preparation.

A solution is to make sachets (not restricted to these, it's the principle; can be a few capsules that shouldn't occupy much space) amounting to 7 servings (instead of 1 or 30), this way only water will suffice to make them usable and there won't be enough time to spoil. 4 sachets/capsules could replace a bottle.

 

[Kartoffel]

Ok, here is my customs update:

It took the customs till yesterday to check the ingredients of MitoLipin, DeFibron and Gonadin. Today they released all 3 products to me.

The customs officer did the application on his computer. I suggested HS code 3004.90 (German customs tariff number 3004 9000 000), but the customs officer tried another number (the one for dietary supplements), because that would have had the reduced VAT rate of 7% instead of 19% (so the customs officer tried to safe me money). But it turned out that number had too many possible restrictions, seemed too complicated to the officer (I don't know the number he tried but I assume 2106.90, which is actually much more complicated since you have to put in the application form more strange codes to rule out that specific restrictions would apply to the product). So we used HS code 3004.90 after all. I paid no duty, 19% VAT and got the products released without any further questions.

@Kartoffel: I'm not so sure about DHEA and other steroids. As far as I see, the HS code for steroid hormones (the ones sold by idealabs) should be 2937.29 and according to EZT (Elektronischer Zolltarif = German customs regulations online), there are restrictions for products with that number, but private persons are explicitly excluded from these restrictions (same thing for HS code 3004.90)! So I don't really see the problem to get that stuff released as long as the customs agrees that the product belongs to that HS code. Nevertheless, I think it's correct that the German customs is looking for anabolic bodybuilding products and destroys them (e.g. Operation Pangea). Don't really know how that goes together. (Btw: I'm quite experienced in doing customs clearances for commercial companies, as that is my job. But I never did one for myself as a private person. And I usually don't clear foods, medication/drugs, etc.; I'm no expert on that. So maybe I'm overlooking something regarding the restrictions...)

EDIT: I have to correct my above text, as I rechecked the German customs regulations for HS code 3004.90 and it has much more possible restrictions than I remembered. That again means, I don't know why the application was easier for the officer with that code. And 3304.99 could probably really be the better code (in regards to restricitons) if the customs accepts it...

Glad to hear you got your products. As I said, the ones you ordered should be legal, but everything that falls under §73 of the"Arzeneimittelgesetzt" is prohibited from importing.

§ 73 AMG - Einzelnorm

 

[akgrrrl]

It would be impractical for you to find a way to sell them portioned in servings (capsules or something that resembles blister packs with the content ready to be emptied), but it's the only form to assure a constant amount of each ingredient in single use. This is for blend products like Energin, not TyroMax, StressNon, etc.

Conversely, there's the option to sell them as they are right now (bottled and everything) but dry, and with instructions on how to hydrate (limiting line for example). Some customers already manipulate your formulas according to their preference, so the idea is not off. But a complicator is that some of your products include ethanol as well, yet the process has to be simple, it can't require an elaborate preparation.

A solution is to make sachets (not restricted to these, it's the principle; can be a few capsules that shouldn't occupy much space) amounting to 7 servings (instead of 1 or 30), this way only water will suffice to make them usable and there won't be enough time to spoil. 4 sachets/capsules could replace a bottle.

- Evaluation of Effect of Excipients, Temperature and Humidity on the Stability of Levothyroxine Sodium - Niraj Amin

"Water is one of the major factors responsible for causing degradation in pharmaceutical formulations. It may be associated with the drug or the excipients, may be incorporated during the processing of dosage forms or may be acquired from the environment during packaging or storage. Because of its ubiquitous nature and its ability to exist as a vapour, water is virtually impossible to avoid and difficult to control. The molecular mass of water is low, and so small amounts may be significant in terms of molecular reactivity. Water is also capable of diffusing, to some extent, through packaging materials, pack seals or through compacted solid dosage forms [11]."

"Excipients with a greater affinity for moisture might aid in mitigating moisture sensitivity. Thus, formulation with a substance having a greater affinity for water as compared to the drug may help in sequestering moisture in the product. Perrier et al. [14] used nitrogen sorption isotherms to predict the effect of common excipients on the stability of nitrazepam. They determined that excipients with higher absorption energies caused less degradation, meaning, if the excipient has a higher binding energy for water as compared to the drug, the excipient may act as a desiccant and stabilize the drug. Along with moisture, residues of lower alcohols (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) might be present in the final formulation, as a result of synthesis, isolation of the drug or the process used for manufacturing the dosage form. Nimry et al. [15] and Tobyn et al. [16] showed that materials such as amorphous silica and microcrystalline cellulose may act as 'scavangers' of volatile residues and help in stabilizing the formulation."

"The shelf life for levothyroxine sodium was determined using the k-values obtained from the best fit models. The lower t9o values indicated that levothyroxine sodium is highly unstable in presence of moisture and higher temperatures and so the tablets should be formulated and stored at or below room temperature with 0% humidity."​

- Influence of Formulation and Processing Factors on Stability of Levothyroxine Sodium Pentahydrate

"Conventional isothermal stress testing approaches to drug–excipient compatibility evaluation typically involve challenging binary drug–excipient mixtures (in realistic ratios) with moisture as the majority of drug degradation reactions involve moisture (19). Increasing the moisture content may be accomplished by increasing the relative humidity of the environment, or by adding a fixed amount of water. With exposure of the samples to high humidities, the excipient–drug interaction depends upon the free moisture present and relative hygroscopicities (16). Drug degradation thus may vary depending on the hygroscopicity of the excipients (16,20). Therefore, it is suggested that a constant amount of water be added to facilitate interactions between the excipient and drug, and to surround undissolved particles with an aqueous layer saturated with drug, excipient, and any impurities present, as well as the microenvironmental pH. Literature values range from 5% to 20% added water (16,19–22). In the current study, 5% moisture was used for all the drug–excipient mixtures.

Although levothyroxine was found to be stable in solid state at accelerated temperature conditions, it degraded up to 40% in the presence of moisture when exposed to higher temperature. It is sensitive to moisture which causes its degradation rapidly as compared to its dry form."​

Zeus, you're not allowed to sell any of the research products of your store in dry form or is it just proyesterone? I know they's stable enough, but it's undeniable that moisture speeds up degradation. Remember when you went on an expedition throughout the world? If it was nowadays and you had options, I'm sure you would choose the powders whenever possible to carry with you.

- Space food - Wikipedia

By the way, lowering the temperature here was completely unnecessary, these are just suggestions and they have been polite all along. Also, the customer is always right, so what I'm saying can't be wrong.

- Evaluation of Effect of Excipients, Temperature and Humidity on the Stability of Levothyroxine Sodium - Niraj Amin

"Water is one of the major factors responsible for causing degradation in pharmaceutical formulations. It may be associated with the drug or the excipients, may be incorporated during the processing of dosage forms or may be acquired from the environment during packaging or storage. Because of its ubiquitous nature and its ability to exist as a vapour, water is virtually impossible to avoid and difficult to control. The molecular mass of water is low, and so small amounts may be significant in terms of molecular reactivity. Water is also capable of diffusing, to some extent, through packaging materials, pack seals or through compacted solid dosage forms [11]."

"Excipients with a greater affinity for moisture might aid in mitigating moisture sensitivity. Thus, formulation with a substance having a greater affinity for water as compared to the drug may help in sequestering moisture in the product. Perrier et al. [14] used nitrogen sorption isotherms to predict the effect of common excipients on the stability of nitrazepam. They determined that excipients with higher absorption energies caused less degradation, meaning, if the excipient has a higher binding energy for water as compared to the drug, the excipient may act as a desiccant and stabilize the drug. Along with moisture, residues of lower alcohols (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) might be present in the final formulation, as a result of synthesis, isolation of the drug or the process used for manufacturing the dosage form. Nimry et al. [15] and Tobyn et al. [16] showed that materials such as amorphous silica and microcrystalline cellulose may act as 'scavangers' of volatile residues and help in stabilizing the formulation."

"The shelf life for levothyroxine sodium was determined using the k-values obtained from the best fit models. The lower t9o values indicated that levothyroxine sodium is highly unstable in presence of moisture and higher temperatures and so the tablets should be formulated and stored at or below room temperature with 0% humidity."​

- Influence of Formulation and Processing Factors on Stability of Levothyroxine Sodium Pentahydrate

"Conventional isothermal stress testing approaches to drug–excipient compatibility evaluation typically involve challenging binary drug–excipient mixtures (in realistic ratios) with moisture as the majority of drug degradation reactions involve moisture (19). Increasing the moisture content may be accomplished by increasing the relative humidity of the environment, or by adding a fixed amount of water. With exposure of the samples to high humidities, the excipient–drug interaction depends upon the free moisture present and relative hygroscopicities (16). Drug degradation thus may vary depending on the hygroscopicity of the excipients (16,20). Therefore, it is suggested that a constant amount of water be added to facilitate interactions between the excipient and drug, and to surround undissolved particles with an aqueous layer saturated with drug, excipient, and any impurities present, as well as the microenvironmental pH. Literature values range from 5% to 20% added water (16,19–22). In the current study, 5% moisture was used for all the drug–excipient mixtures.

Although levothyroxine was found to be stable in solid state at accelerated temperature conditions, it degraded up to 40% in the presence of moisture when exposed to higher temperature. It is sensitive to moisture which causes its degradation rapidly as compared to its dry form."​

Zeus, you're not allowed to sell any of the research products of your store in dry form or is it just proyesterone? I know they's stable enough, but it's undeniable that moisture speeds up degradation. Remember when you went on an expedition throughout the world? If it was nowadays and you had options, I'm sure you would choose the powders whenever possible to carry with you.

- Space food - Wikipedia

By the way, lowering the temperature here was completely unnecessary, these are just suggestions and they have been polite all along. Also, the customer is always right, so what I'm saying can't be wrong.

I am so grateful to have this post to show the medicos this week, and that you are still generating ideas for Haidut to explore. I completely crashed 2weeks ago on my regular Levothyroxin dose.
Textbook thyroid deficit symptoms (at least in MY befuddled mind) bedbound, unable to eat lost ten pounds, bradycardia and arrythmias, the works. My last bottle was exposed to 3 different state's environments at extremes both ends of temp and humidity. Blood work arrives tomorrow or Monday, I cant wait to see the results.

 

[ilikecats]

@Anders86 Whatcha talkin bout willis? Healthnatura's mixed tocopherols (in their simply progesterone product) are definitely derived from soy too, just like the vitamin E in protest E. But there's next to no soy and no soy proteins left in either products. that's why the info for healthnatura's vitamin E reads: "Derived from soy: Certified soy allergen free by FDA standards." Thats why Peat uses Progest-e despite hating soy. Haidut also uses soy derived mixed tocopherols as a solvent with MCT in some of his products. Same deal as with progest e and health naturas simply progesterone. Shouldn’t translate to any real world problems even for the most sensitive of individuals.

 

[Anders86]

@Anders86 Whatcha talkin bout willis? Healthnatura's mixed tocopherols (in their simply progesterone product) are definitely derived from soy too, just like the vitamin E in protest E. But there's next to no soy and no soy proteins left in either products. that's why the info for healthnatura's vitamin E reads: "Derived from soy: Certified soy allergen free by FDA standards." Thats why Peat uses Progest-e despite hating soy. Haidut also uses soy derived mixed tocopherols as a solvent with MCT in some of his products. Same deal as with progest e and health naturas simply progesterone. Shouldn’t translate to any real world problems even for the most sensitive of individuals.

I see.. That shakes things up a bit. Thanks.

 

[Mufasa]

Which products do you think would be good as dry?
@akgrrrl

Inosine.

 

[akgrrrl]

Inosine


+1

 

[Jman]

Can't do that one. Even though progesterone is legal every single bulk vendor I have seen so far requires distributors to sign an agreement they will not re-sell it as a solid. Pregnenolone and DHEA are different for some reason, large chemical vendors do not care about them but they do case about progesterone.

I thought you said that was one of the reasons you can't sell solid Pregnenolone?

 

[brix]

What size are the 360 drop containers? I want to add my own powders to a full bottle to dilute to a specific mg dose and not sure how much I need to add for the proper dilution. Thank you.

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

It seems that the "3 youth steroids" can all be beneficial individually and in different combinations, and different ratios can be used to try and achieve different effects. New threads are being made that seem to encourage the experimentation of different ratios and I think that makes sense. Individuals may respond differently to certain ratios, and some people may want to change or continue to experiment with different ratios/combinations as time goes by and their goals and physiology change. Different ratios have also been recommended in the past and I'm sure new ideas will be introduced in the future on how and when to best combine these 3.

All this being said wouldn't it be sensible for IdeaLabs to offer a pure DHEA product?

Currently IdeaLabs offers:

1- Progesterone Product
2- Pregnenolone Product
3- Progesterone/DHEA Product
4- Pregnenolone/DHEA Product

So currently there are 4 products that seem to make for unnecessary math and thinking when trying to achieve a certain ratio. Also there is no option to use and experiment with DHEA by itself.

Why not the following lineup instead:

1-Progesterone Product
2-Pregnenolone Product
3-DHEA Product

Simple and its 3 products instead of 4. With these 3 products people could mix and match how they see fit, as well as use each individually, to see how it effects them. What do you think?

 

[rebuke]

A high quality no filler powder of the B vitamins such as b1 b2 b5 b7 etc sold seperately in bulk would be a top seller. If anyone has a source please share.

Tbh I don't find energin compelling, questionable shelf life, cumbersome and the science behind a multi B is also questionable. Even something like high dose thiamine drops would probably be more benefical then the current energin.