Ideal Tryptophan Intake Per Day?

[haidut]

Nobody knows for sure, but hypothyroidism in younger people is one known cause. Older people have this issue all the time and this is why they don't react as well to protein supplementation as younger people. One "solution" is to increase protein intake but this way you are also increasing waste products like ammonia since it is not utilized very well. Low hormones levels are certainly part of it, including low T3, which is a prime factor in increasing protein synthesis. Gbolduev seem to think it is due to poor pancreas function, low gastrin, mineral deficiencies, etc. Peat kind of agrees but says these issues themselves are due to a deeper cause - low energy production.

haidut can you explain a little bit about "peripheral protein" please, i searched but didnt get it well... what are them??

By peripheral protein synthesis I mean muscle synthesis. The organs, including the brain, have amino acids requirements and some of the ingested aminos go towards that requirement. The rest of the protein should ideally go to build muscle and not to be oxidized as fuel. However, in older of hypothyroid people this does not happen very well and instead the protein is turned into glucose through deamination and gluconeogenesis and burned as glucose. This is very inefficient and also creates a lot of waste such as ammonia.

 

[Velve921]

Highest Amount of Tryptophan Per Day

Does Peat specify the limit of Tryptophan per day? I am examining some of my athletes' diets on cronometer. Just curious of what to look for?

Or do we think as long as Ca:P is 1:1 or higher then tryptophan should be less of a concern?

Let me know everyone's thoughts. Thanks!

 

[Giraffe]

Re: Highest Amount of Tryptophan Per Day

There was a thread recently viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7219

The search box is your little friend. :)

 

[mirc12354]

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

I just got my blood tests, situation pretty similar to the one desribed above, do you think it would be better to take pregnenolone orally or topically (StressNon)? What about would Pansterone - would it do the trick?

How long should one take the pregnenolone to see the difference?

 

[haidut]

I just got my blood tests, situation pretty similar to the one desribed above, do you think it would be better to take pregnenolone orally or topically (StressNon)? What about would Pansterone - would it do the trick?

How long should one take the pregnenolone to see the difference?

Oral pregnenolone for about 2 weeks should be producing results. Glycine and taurine are also important for billiary problems.

 

[mirc12354]

So 50 mg preg daily plus how much glycine and/or taurine?

 

[ddjd]

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

could high billirubin be a sign of low bile?

 

[ddjd]

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD)

i thought high Albumin (not bilirubin) is good?

i read this; "High Albumin is good and protective. It's good to have albumin well above 40"

 

[haidut]

i thought high Albumin (not bilirubin) is good?

i read this; "High Albumin is good and protective. It's good to have albumin well above 40"

There is a normal range of albumin. If it goes above the upper limit it can point to a number of issues, including the ones I mentioned previously. If the 40 range is the same as 4 in the rane used by LabCorp then yes, it is a good number to have. But having it rise to say 60 (6) is probably not a good sign. That being said, I would rather have it higher than lower.

 

[Momado965]

If you believe the rodent studies showing improvements in health and increase in lifespan, tryptophan intake should be below 0.17% of diet (i.e. less than 170mg per 100g of diet) and methionine should be around 0.17% of diet. Methionine restriction effects on health have been replicated in humans but no data yet on lifespan extension. Cysteine is another amino acid shown to increase lifespan when restricted, but since it is synthesized from methionine there is no need to specifically restrict it if you are following a methionine deficient diet.

Human study on methionine restriction:
Dietary methionine restriction increases fat oxidation in obese adults with metabolic syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI

Other studies on methionine and tryptophan restriction:
Tryptophan-restriction diets help to maintain L-tryptophan homeostasis in tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase knockout mice. - PubMed - NCBI
Mechanisms of amino acid-mediated lifespan extension in Caenorhabditis elegans. - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24373243

Am I right to deduce that both tryptophan and methionine should be around 1.46 g on a 3500kcal diet?

 

[haidut]

Am I right to deduce that both tryptophan and methionine should be around 1.46 g on a 3500kcal diet?

They can probably be dropped even more. A human study showed that when methionine was restricted to 0.2mg/kg daily obesity and insulin resistance was resolved. Not sure what the minimum amount of tryptophan is but I think an adult can get by on less than 500mg daily.

 

[Momado965]

They can probably be dropped even more. A human study showed that when methionine was restricted to 0.2mg/kg daily obesity and insulin resistance was resolved. Not sure what the minimum amount of tryptophan is but I think an adult can get by on less than 500mg daily.

Whats an example of that and how much protein are we talking here without the inclusion of gelatin?

 

[haidut]

Whats an example of that and how much protein are we talking here without the inclusion of gelatin?

An example of what?

 

[Momado965]

An example of what?

Of a protein amount leading to the lower tryptophan you mentioned without inclusion of gelatin.

 

[haidut]

Of a protein amount leading to the lower tryptophan you mentioned without inclusion of gelatin.

All protein except gelatin and zein contain some tryptophan. So limiting the tryptophan absorption (search the forum for that) and decreasing its accumulation in the brain with gelatin/BCAA/tyrosine/etc would be the best way to go.

 

[Momado965]

All protein except gelatin and zein contain some tryptophan. So limiting the tryptophan absorption (search the forum for that) and decreasing its accumulation in the brain with gelatin/BCAA/tyrosine/etc would be the best way to go.

You mean to say it is best to eat a good amount of protein and some gelatin BCAA, tyrosine etc?

 

[Pdohlen]

My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong. Tryptophan is observed to be approximately 1.2% of a full human protein block. Thus if your needs are 100g protein a day you should aim for no more than 1200mg tryptophan (about 3 litres of milk). If you go less, the body won't be able to synthesize a full 100g proteins. If your body needs 100g protein and you consume less than 1200mg Tryptophan, and has the other necessary essential amino acids, it will start to break down muscle tissue to access the missing Tryptophan so it can use them elsewhere.

Filling up with gelatin should only be necessary if you eat more proteins than the body need, or if you eat food that has a high proportion of Tryptophan relative to other amino acids. I do expect that RP is worried about excess Tryptophan, and not the basic requirement for synthesizing proteins. I read that RP in his http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/tryptophan-serotonin-aging.shtml article argues for a lower need for Tryptophan in adults in order to synthesize a whole protein. Has anyone an estimate for how much Tryptophan RP thinks should be maksimum?

Milk, steak, shrimps, cheese are all approximately 1.2% Tryptophan. Not sure which foods that are very high Tryptophan?