Ideal Tryptophan Intake Per Day?

[FredSonoma]

Does anyone have a chart with a good breakdown of different kinds of meat and their amino acid breakdown?

I'm pretty sure that eggs and muscle meats from ruminants or fish are the main sources to be careful of with methionine and tryptophan. Is that correct?

Also, what about shrimp and oysters? Does that need to be balanced with gelatin?

Also, how important is it that I balance every meal? If my overall daily intake is balanced, is that good enough? Or every time I fry up 2 eggs should I ideally be having some gelatin with it? Also, if I'm craving the s*** out of muscle meats and kind of disgusted by gelatin, could it be a sign that my body needs more methionine to, say, build muscle or something?

If you Google "FOOD amino acid composition" where "food" is replaced by whatever you want analysis on you will get a lot of results. When the results come back click on Google Images and you will get many charts showing percentages, pie charts, RDA, etc.
The bottom line is that tryptophan presence in protein seems to be fairly constant. Most meats have it at about 1% of protein content. Shrimp and some fish actually have more tryptophan than beef and eggs. Methionine is mostly found in meats, eggs, and grains. Milk has less methionine than most other proteins. The only protein low in the "bad" amino acids is gelatin. However it is deficient in isoleucine and threonine, which are essential aminos. So, eating mostly gelatin and supplementing some BCAA and threonine is perhaps the easiest and cheapest way to eat a protein as close to perfect (according to Peat) as you can get naturally.

Okay thanks! My current issue is I am very much craving protein all the time - even gelatin. However, the bone broth I make makes me feel pretty terrible (including big pieces of joints I eat in it). Is there a way I can get gelatin that doesn't need to be cooked long / is it likely that Great Lakes gelatin won't have this effect on me? Wouldn't it likely have the same effect because it's probably cooked the same way I cook it?

 

[4peatssake]

As much as you want. It doesn't matter. As long as you adequately balance it with Gelatin, you have nothing to worry about. That does not include dairy. This is just my opinion...

That's really interesting. How does the dairy tryptophan factor in? Is this a controversial notion in Peatdom?
And do you think there's a magic x grams of tryptophan needs to be balanced by y grams of gelatin?
Or it varies between individuals?

Things become clearer when you read and reread RP's articles and newsletters and listen to his audios.
You won't get an accurate understanding of RP's ideas from a comment here or there.

af says this is his/her opinion.

It is disconcerting to see someone would come away with a notion of a "Peatdom" controversy from a random comment on a single amino acid. No offence af, I understand what you are saying but I doubt Peat would express it that way.

It's important to be careful where you get your "Peatdom" ideas from.

From RP's article Gelatin, stress, longevity
The part in bold is bolded by Peat.

The amino acids in proteins have been defined as “essential” on the basis of their contribution to growth, ignoring their role in producing long life, good brain development, and good health. The amino acid and protein requirements during aging have hardly been studied, except in rats, whose short life-span makes such studies fairly easy. The few studies that have been done indicate that the requirements for tryptophan and cysteine become very low in adulthood.

Although Clive McKay's studies of life extension through caloric restriction were done in the 1930s, only a few studies have been done to find out which nutrients' restriction contributes most to extending the life span. Restricting toxic heavy metals, without restricting calories, produces about the same life-extending effect as caloric restriction. Restricting only tryptophan, or only cysteine, produces a greater extension of the life span than achieved in most of the studies of caloric restriction. How great would be the life-span extension if both tryptophan and cysteine were restricted at the same time?

Both tryptophan and cysteine inhibit thyroid function and mitochondrial energy production, and have other effects that decrease the ability to withstand stress. Tryptophan is the precursor to serotonin, which causes inflammation, immunodepression, and generally the same changes seen in aging. Histidine is another amino acid precursor to a mediator of inflammation, histamine; would the restriction of histidine in the diet have a longevity promoting effect, too?

It happens that gelatin is a protein which contains no tryptophan, and only small amounts of cysteine, methionine, and histidine. Using gelatin as a major dietary protein is an easy way to restrict the amino acids that are associated with many of the problems of aging.

The main amino acids in gelatin are glycine and proline; alanine is also present in significant quantity. Glycine and proline are responsible for the unusual fibrous property of collagen.

As for the tryptophan in milk, RP in the email exchanges posted at the former Peatarian site, was quoted as saying:

Regarding milk and its tryptophan content, The calcium helps to keep the metabolic rate high, and the other nutrients help to steer tryptophan away from the serotonin path.

don't overcomplicate things. that is what gets people into issues in the first place.

If quoting RP complicates things for people, I daresay they are in big trouble. :P
How are you supposed to apply his ideas accurately, if you don't bother to read and understand them?

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. There are plenty of healthy people in this world, that don't understand why the food they eat is helping them. This is about innate intelligence. The foods that are recommended have been around for thousands of years. Take away all the dogma and social conditioning around what is healthy, and EVERYONE is eating a "Peat diet". No one is eating salads, drinking soy milk, PUFA's. "Apply them correctly?" Tell that to a baby who wants to eat fruit and drink milk. There is no learning that needs to be done. It's unlearning that needs to be done.

Of course it may interesting to understand the ideas, but it certainly is far from necessary. When you demand that people understand ideas and a protocol, you restrict them. You deactivate their internal guidance system and suggest they operate mechanically.

I didn't "demand" anyone do anything.
My point was it isn't easy to understand Ray Peat's actual ideas if you don't get them from reading or listening to his words but from random comments here.

That is hardly an effort to inactivate a person's inner guidance system.
I didn't suggest anyone follow his ideas or favor them over their own intuitive knowledge.

You "demanded" of me not to complicate discussions with Ray Peat's actual words.
This forum exists to discuss Ray Peat.

Sorry OP for going off topic.

 

[narouz]

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. There are plenty of healthy people in this world, that don't understand why the food they eat is helping them. This is about innate intelligence. The foods that are recommended have been around for thousands of years. Take away all the dogma and social conditioning around what is healthy, and EVERYONE is eating a "Peat diet". No one is eating salads, drinking soy milk, PUFA's. "Apply them correctly?" Tell that to a baby who wants to eat fruit and drink milk. There is no learning that needs to be done. It's unlearning that needs to be done.

Of course it may interesting to understand the ideas, but it certainly is far from necessary. When you demand that people understand ideas and a protocol, you restrict them. You deactivate their internal guidance system and suggest they operate mechanically.

This is truly a wet dream horn o' plenty for those who prize a certain view of Peat
and what it means to be Peatian!

Remove the Peat Evils of "dogma" and "social conditioning" and "protocols" and even "learning,"
remove all "restrictions" which "deactivate internal guidance" and cause "mechanical" mentality.
Remove as a hindering or evil influence even the reading of Peat himself,
and then...

..."EVERYONE will be eating a Peat diet"!
And--I guess--then all will become right with the world!!

Reminds me of The Noble Savage ideal.
The purely intuitive man,
with no need of civilization or institutions of learning like science....

 

[haidut]

Does anyone have a chart with a good breakdown of different kinds of meat and their amino acid breakdown?

I'm pretty sure that eggs and muscle meats from ruminants or fish are the main sources to be careful of with methionine and tryptophan. Is that correct?

Also, what about shrimp and oysters? Does that need to be balanced with gelatin?

Also, how important is it that I balance every meal? If my overall daily intake is balanced, is that good enough? Or every time I fry up 2 eggs should I ideally be having some gelatin with it? Also, if I'm craving the s*** out of muscle meats and kind of disgusted by gelatin, could it be a sign that my body needs more methionine to, say, build muscle or something?

If you Google "FOOD amino acid composition" where "food" is replaced by whatever you want analysis on you will get a lot of results. When the results come back click on Google Images and you will get many charts showing percentages, pie charts, RDA, etc.
The bottom line is that tryptophan presence in protein seems to be fairly constant. Most meats have it at about 1% of protein content. Shrimp and some fish actually have more tryptophan than beef and eggs. Methionine is mostly found in meats, eggs, and grains. Milk has less methionine than most other proteins. The only protein low in the "bad" amino acids is gelatin. However it is deficient in isoleucine and threonine, which are essential aminos. So, eating mostly gelatin and supplementing some BCAA and threonine is perhaps the easiest and cheapest way to eat a protein as close to perfect (according to Peat) as you can get naturally.

Okay thanks! My current issue is I am very much craving protein all the time - even gelatin. However, the bone broth I make makes me feel pretty terrible (including big pieces of joints I eat in it). Is there a way I can get gelatin that doesn't need to be cooked long / is it likely that Great Lakes gelatin won't have this effect on me? Wouldn't it likely have the same effect because it's probably cooked the same way I cook it?

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

 

[narouz]

FredSonoma-
I haven't kept up with all your posts,
so sorry if you've talked about this already, but...
Are you hypothyroid?

 

[FredSonoma]

FredSonoma-
I haven't kept up with all your posts,
so sorry if you've talked about this already, but...
Are you hypothyroid?

Don't be sorry! I haven't - I'm actually not sure. I have some recent bloodwork, but it is from when I was doing a 15-day fast, so I imagine the results could be wrong. During the fast, which was about a month ago, my TSH was 1.61 and my T4 was 0.8. Any other blood results that would be helpful? I had a bunch of stuff done then.

Also, I've just started taking pulse and temp for the past 7 days - Waking Temp is usually around 96.8 and it rises with breakfast, sometimes I make it to around 98 by the afternoon. Waking Pulse is usually around 72, it rises to mid 80s after breakfast, and greatly varies in the afternoon (from 76 to 92).

 

[FredSonoma]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

I have bloodwork, but it was during a 15 day fast. So the numbers might be completely fckered.
Albumin: 5.3, Bun/Creatinine ratio: normal, Creatinine: 1.05, Urea Nitrogen: 10, Bilirubin: 1.2, Alkaline Phosphatase: 66, Globulin: 2.4, Total Protein: 7.7

 

[narouz]

FredSonoma-
I haven't kept up with all your posts,
so sorry if you've talked about this already, but...
Are you hypothyroid?

Don't be sorry! I haven't - I'm actually not sure. I have some recent bloodwork, but it is from when I was doing a 15-day fast, so I imagine the results could be wrong. During the fast, which was about a month ago, my TSH was 1.61 and my T4 was 0.8. Any other blood results that would be helpful? I had a bunch of stuff done then.

Also, I've just started taking pulse and temp for the past 7 days - Waking Temp is usually around 96.8 and it rises with breakfast, sometimes I make it to around 98 by the afternoon. Waking Pulse is usually around 72, it rises to mid 80s after breakfast, and greatly varies in the afternoon (from 76 to 92).

That TSH looks decent, but I (and Peat) wouldn't go by that.
I mention the hypothyroid thing
because in periods where I've been hypothyroid
(thyroid supplements not working right for unknown reasons)
I also had trouble with gelatin.

Your temps look somewhat low.
At some point you might consider a little thyroid supplementation.

 

[haidut]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

I have bloodwork, but it was during a 15 day fast. So the numbers might be completely fckered.
Albumin: 5.3, Bun/Creatinine ratio: normal, Creatinine: 1.05, Urea Nitrogen: 10, Bilirubin: 1.2, Alkaline Phosphatase: 66, Globulin: 2.4, Total Protein: 7.7

Can you provide some ranges used by the lab? I know different labs use different ranges so won't know what is right in your case, but I can use the ones reported in the USA for this post.
I think bilirubin may be approaching the upper limit. My lab used 1.2 as the upper limit for bilirubin. Have you had liver tests as well? In addition globulin may also be approaching the upper limit. My lab uses 2.4 as the upper limit. Do you feel you have trouble building up muscle?

 

[FredSonoma]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

I have bloodwork, but it was during a 15 day fast. So the numbers might be completely fckered.
Albumin: 5.3, Bun/Creatinine ratio: normal, Creatinine: 1.05, Urea Nitrogen: 10, Bilirubin: 1.2, Alkaline Phosphatase: 66, Globulin: 2.4, Total Protein: 7.7

Can you provide some ranges used by the lab? I know different labs use different ranges so won't know what is right in your case, but I can use the ones reported in the USA for this post.
I think bilirubin may be approaching the upper limit. My lab used 1.2 as the upper limit for bilirubin. Have you had liver tests as well? In addition globulin may also be approaching the upper limit. My lab uses 2.4 as the upper limit. Do you feel you have trouble building up muscle?

I definitely had trouble building muscle back then (1 month ago, on a fast, before every learning about Peat), but I think now I am putting on muscle without much issue (but haven't tried lifting weights or anything).

My 5.3 albumin is .2 over the limit (In range: 3.6-5.1)
My 1.2 bilirubin is right at the upper limit (in range .2 - 1.2)
For mine on globulin it says the range is 1.9-3.7.

I unfortunately didn't have any liver tests done

 

[haidut]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

I have bloodwork, but it was during a 15 day fast. So the numbers might be completely fckered.
Albumin: 5.3, Bun/Creatinine ratio: normal, Creatinine: 1.05, Urea Nitrogen: 10, Bilirubin: 1.2, Alkaline Phosphatase: 66, Globulin: 2.4, Total Protein: 7.7

Can you provide some ranges used by the lab? I know different labs use different ranges so won't know what is right in your case, but I can use the ones reported in the USA for this post.
I think bilirubin may be approaching the upper limit. My lab used 1.2 as the upper limit for bilirubin. Have you had liver tests as well? In addition globulin may also be approaching the upper limit. My lab uses 2.4 as the upper limit. Do you feel you have trouble building up muscle?

I definitely had trouble building muscle back then (1 month ago, on a fast, before every learning about Peat), but I think now I am putting on muscle without much issue (but haven't tried lifting weights or anything).

My 5.3 albumin is .2 over the limit (In range: 3.6-5.1)
My 1.2 bilirubin is right at the upper limit (in range .2 - 1.2)
For mine on globulin it says the range is 1.9-3.7.

I unfortunately didn't have any liver tests done

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

 

[FredSonoma]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

I have bloodwork, but it was during a 15 day fast. So the numbers might be completely fckered.
Albumin: 5.3, Bun/Creatinine ratio: normal, Creatinine: 1.05, Urea Nitrogen: 10, Bilirubin: 1.2, Alkaline Phosphatase: 66, Globulin: 2.4, Total Protein: 7.7

Can you provide some ranges used by the lab? I know different labs use different ranges so won't know what is right in your case, but I can use the ones reported in the USA for this post.
I think bilirubin may be approaching the upper limit. My lab used 1.2 as the upper limit for bilirubin. Have you had liver tests as well? In addition globulin may also be approaching the upper limit. My lab uses 2.4 as the upper limit. Do you feel you have trouble building up muscle?

I definitely had trouble building muscle back then (1 month ago, on a fast, before every learning about Peat), but I think now I am putting on muscle without much issue (but haven't tried lifting weights or anything).

My 5.3 albumin is .2 over the limit (In range: 3.6-5.1)
My 1.2 bilirubin is right at the upper limit (in range .2 - 1.2)
For mine on globulin it says the range is 1.9-3.7.

I unfortunately didn't have any liver tests done

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

Thanks Haidut!! How safe is pregnenolone to try? I think I am a pretty typical case of slightly sluggish metabolism - some stomach fat, some stomach bloating, some face puffiness, and somewhat low temps / pulse - other than diet, what are the safest things to try first to speed up my recovery? I've been very strict with the diet, haven't cheated once in 4 weeks (maybe too strict to my own downfall lol).

 

[Stuart]

Don't be sorry! I haven't - I'm actually not sure. I have some recent bloodwork, but it is from when I was doing a 15-day fast, so I imagine the results could be wrong. During the fast, which was about a month ago, my TSH was 1.61 and my T4 was 0.8. Any other blood results that would be helpful? I had a bunch of stuff done then.

Also, I've just started taking pulse and temp for the past 7 days - Waking Temp is usually around 96.8 and it rises with breakfast, sometimes I make it to around 98 by the afternoon. Waking Pulse is usually around 72, it rises to mid 80s after breakfast, and greatly varies in the afternoon (from 76 to 92).

That''s a very long fast FredS_ .Were yoo getting any calories at all or just water? Do you do regular long fasts/

 

[haidut]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

I have bloodwork, but it was during a 15 day fast. So the numbers might be completely fckered.
Albumin: 5.3, Bun/Creatinine ratio: normal, Creatinine: 1.05, Urea Nitrogen: 10, Bilirubin: 1.2, Alkaline Phosphatase: 66, Globulin: 2.4, Total Protein: 7.7

Can you provide some ranges used by the lab? I know different labs use different ranges so won't know what is right in your case, but I can use the ones reported in the USA for this post.
I think bilirubin may be approaching the upper limit. My lab used 1.2 as the upper limit for bilirubin. Have you had liver tests as well? In addition globulin may also be approaching the upper limit. My lab uses 2.4 as the upper limit. Do you feel you have trouble building up muscle?

I definitely had trouble building muscle back then (1 month ago, on a fast, before every learning about Peat), but I think now I am putting on muscle without much issue (but haven't tried lifting weights or anything).

My 5.3 albumin is .2 over the limit (In range: 3.6-5.1)
My 1.2 bilirubin is right at the upper limit (in range .2 - 1.2)
For mine on globulin it says the range is 1.9-3.7.

I unfortunately didn't have any liver tests done

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

Thanks Haidut!! How safe is pregnenolone to try? I think I am a pretty typical case of slightly sluggish metabolism - some stomach fat, some stomach bloating, some face puffiness, and somewhat low temps / pulse - other than diet, what are the safest things to try first to speed up my recovery? I've been very strict with the diet, haven't cheated once in 4 weeks (maybe too strict to my own downfall lol).

Different people react differently to pregnenolone. You can try 50mg daily and that would restore physiological levels. If you start getting bloated, tired, etc I would cut down.

 

[FredSonoma]

Don't be sorry! I haven't - I'm actually not sure. I have some recent bloodwork, but it is from when I was doing a 15-day fast, so I imagine the results could be wrong. During the fast, which was about a month ago, my TSH was 1.61 and my T4 was 0.8. Any other blood results that would be helpful? I had a bunch of stuff done then.

Also, I've just started taking pulse and temp for the past 7 days - Waking Temp is usually around 96.8 and it rises with breakfast, sometimes I make it to around 98 by the afternoon. Waking Pulse is usually around 72, it rises to mid 80s after breakfast, and greatly varies in the afternoon (from 76 to 92).

That''s a very long fast FredS_ .Were yoo getting any calories at all or just water? Do you do regular long fasts/

No just water - no I don't haha that was the only time. I messed around with the skipping breakfast thing a while back but I don't ever do that anymore. I eat constantly now from like 6:30 AM - 10 PM LOL

 

[paymanz]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

what causes "poor peripheral protein utilization" ??

 

[haidut]

I don't know why you have issues with gelatin. It could be a bad batch or the fact that it is hydrolyzed. Some people do fine on the cheapest Knox brand available in any store. You can also try taking some digestive enzymes wit extra protease. If you crave protein you are probably deficient in it. Have you had a recent blood test for total protein, albumin, globulin, etc?

High albumin and high bilirubin suggest poor peripheral protein utilization and potentially impaired liver function (i.e. NAFLD). Since peripheral tissues cannot utilize protein well the liver tries to take as much protein as possible out of the plasma and convert it into its own proteins such as albumin, globulin, etc. The high bilirubin is usually a sign of impaired liver detox abilities. Vitamin K2, caffeine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle, and especially pregnenolone are especially good at helping the liver detox. The protease suggestion from earlier may also help.

what causes "poor peripheral protein utilization" ??

Nobody knows for sure, but hypothyroidism in younger people is one known cause. Older people have this issue all the time and this is why they don't react as well to protein supplementation as younger people. One "solution" is to increase protein intake but this way you are also increasing waste products like ammonia since it is not utilized very well. Low hormones levels are certainly part of it, including low T3, which is a prime factor in increasing protein synthesis. Gbolduev seem to think it is due to poor pancreas function, low gastrin, mineral deficiencies, etc. Peat kind of agrees but says these issues themselves are due to a deeper cause - low energy production.

 

[tara]

I completely agree with 4peatssake on that you won't get an understanding of Ray Peat's ideas without reading his works.

Me too. And/or listening to his interviews.

 

[tara]

So perhaps it is a much better approach to consume bone broth rather than just gelatin. Then you aren't missing out on that "fibrous" quality of collagen.

In the body, collagen is a key component of tissues that function as fibres - eg tendons, ligaments - and all the other connective tissue that ties the body together. I'm not sure that once it is cooked into either bone broth or gelatin powder, it is still fibre? Why would gelatin powder be less fibrous than broth?

 

[paymanz]

Nobody knows for sure, but hypothyroidism in younger people is one known cause. Older people have this issue all the time and this is why they don't react as well to protein supplementation as younger people. One "solution" is to increase protein intake but this way you are also increasing waste products like ammonia since it is not utilized very well. Low hormones levels are certainly part of it, including low T3, which is a prime factor in increasing protein synthesis. Gbolduev seem to think it is due to poor pancreas function, low gastrin, mineral deficiencies, etc. Peat kind of agrees but says these issues themselves are due to a deeper cause - low energy production.

haidut can you explain a little bit about "peripheral protein" please, i searched but didnt get it well... what are them??