IBS And Digestion: Fructose V Starches

Vileplume

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I’m fairly new to the Ray Peat style of eating and have been dealing with IBS for about ten years. Particularly, I’ve had constipation along with bad gas and bloating.

I came from carnivore about a month ago and began adding in various fruits and OJ. At first, I felt only positives from this change: better mood, less irritability, improved libido. However, when I gradually tried to increase fruits, my sleep got worse and my IBS symptoms all returned. I know many of you have experience with FODMAPS, and even though Peat has said that fruits are more easily digestible then starches, fructose is a FODMAP and starches (like rice and potatoes) contain zero FODMAPS.

In an effort to keep the energy ive enjoyed from the Peat-inspired diet with carbs, but also stay low FODMAP, I’ve been using mostly potatoes and rice as my carb sources for two days, along with a good amount of meat. I plan to reintroduce dairy once my digestion is stable. My bloating and constipation improved drastically with starches instead of fructose, but I’ve felt more of an energy crash in the afternoons as well, in addition to an unquenchable thirst. It seems that my temperature rises rapidly with meals (up to like 98.8 F) but comes down faster too. Anybody out there with IBS using starches over fructose? My main rationale is that proper digestion (ie no constipation, bloating, or gas) should be my main priority, because that reflects more proper nutrient absorption and tolerance.

I should also note that I’ve increased meat consumption these past few days in an effort to mitigate the blood glucose effects of the starch. I am eating about 2 pounds of lamb a day, in addition to 10 tbsp of maple syrup and 8 medium-sized potatoes.
 
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biggirlkisss

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I have noticed that using tanning beds along side red light after I have seen major improvements in eatting foods that are considered bad like cakes and stuff. I can handle them much better. The problem with elimination diets if you don't improve overall health you just start eating less and less till you eat only one or two foods.
 

Vileplume

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I have noticed that using tanning beds along side red light after I have seen major improvements in eatting foods that are considered bad like cakes and stuff. I can handle them much better. The problem with elimination diets if you don't improve overall health you just start eating less and less till you eat only one or two foods.

I’ve never tried red light therapy or tanning beds. I’d love to try red light though. Do you have one for yourself? You’re right about the elimination diets leading to long-term heavy restriction. That’s where I’m at. My temps and pulse are also super low (like 45 bpm resting heart rate) so I figure I might be hypothyroid, and have probably been for years. I was thinking if I take care of that through increased easily digestible carbs (potatoes and rice) and decreased exercise, when my thyroid improves my digestion will too, and I’ll be able to eat a wider variety.
 

Hans

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I’m fairly new to the Ray Peat style of eating and have been dealing with IBS for about ten years. Particularly, I’ve had constipation along with bad gas and bloating.

I came from carnivore about a month ago and began adding in various fruits and OJ. At first, I felt only positives from this change: better mood, less irritability, improved libido. However, when I gradually tried to increase fruits, my sleep got worse and my IBS symptoms all returned. I know many of you have experience with FODMAPS, and even though Peat has said that fruits are more easily digestible then starches, fructose is a FODMAP and starches (like rice and potatoes) contain zero FODMAPS.

In an effort to keep the energy ive enjoyed from the Peat-inspired diet with carbs, but also stay low FODMAP, I’ve been using mostly potatoes and rice as my carb sources for two days, along with a good amount of meat. I plan to reintroduce dairy once my digestion is stable. My bloating and constipation improved drastically with starches instead of fructose, but I’ve felt more of an energy crash in the afternoons as well, in addition to an unquenchable thirst. It seems that my temperature rises rapidly with meals (up to like 98.8 F) but comes down faster too. Anybody out there with IBS using starches over fructose? My main rationale is that proper digestion (ie no constipation, bloating, or gas) should be my main priority, because that reflects more proper nutrient absorption and tolerance.

I should also note that I’ve increased meat consumption these past few days in an effort to mitigate the blood glucose effects of the starch. I am eating about 2 pounds of lamb a day, in addition to 10 tbsp of maple syrup and 8 medium-sized potatoes.
So you're not reacting negatively to the maple syrup, since it also contains fructose?
Did you react negatively to whole fruit or fruit juice or both? Did you consume them alone or in combination with something else?
Since you're coming from a carnivore diet, the starches is giving you slight hyperglycemia, hence the thirst.
Adding fructose to it, such as what you're doing with the maple syrup can help lower the insulin response and speed up glucose uptake from the meal.
 

Vileplume

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So you're not reacting negatively to the maple syrup, since it also contains fructose?
Did you react negatively to whole fruit or fruit juice or both? Did you consume them alone or in combination with something else?
Since you're coming from a carnivore diet, the starches is giving you slight hyperglycemia, hence the thirst.
Adding fructose to it, such as what you're doing with the maple syrup can help lower the insulin response and speed up glucose uptake from the meal.

It seems like most whole fruits give me bloating and gas. When I first introduced just a few cups of berries spaced throughout the day, my digestion hardly noticed it. I got a little too excited then and rapidly went from cups of fruit to bowls of fruit, while adding in orange juice. The bloating And poor digestion commenced. Your response highlights my need to be more methodical about this, which I plan to do once I achieve a tolerable and comfortable baseline. That’s what I’m trying to achieve with this potatoes, maple syrup, meat combo.

Maple syrup must have a good deal less fructose then honey, right? Because Monash University (the fodmap researchers) list 2 tbsp of maple syrup as okay, but 1/2 tablespoon of honey as troublesome. And even still, when I have too much maple syrup (more than a few tablespoons at once), I get a tiny bit of bloating and gas.

Not sure what to make of the slight hyperglycemia from starch. Do you think this is problematic, or will it resolve itself in time?
 

yashi

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Maybe try strained high quality or homemade juices for a while to see if it's not the fibre, skins or seeds in the fruit that gives you bad digestion symptoms. Don't be too sure it's the fructose that gives you problems until you isolated it as a cause with enough certainty. Just because it counts as a fodmap, doesn't necessarily mean it's the culprit here.
 

Hans

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It seems like most whole fruits give me bloating and gas. When I first introduced just a few cups of berries spaced throughout the day, my digestion hardly noticed it. I got a little too excited then and rapidly went from cups of fruit to bowls of fruit, while adding in orange juice. The bloating And poor digestion commenced. Your response highlights my need to be more methodical about this, which I plan to do once I achieve a tolerable and comfortable baseline. That’s what I’m trying to achieve with this potatoes, maple syrup, meat combo.

Maple syrup must have a good deal less fructose then honey, right? Because Monash University (the fodmap researchers) list 2 tbsp of maple syrup as okay, but 1/2 tablespoon of honey as troublesome. And even still, when I have too much maple syrup (more than a few tablespoons at once), I get a tiny bit of bloating and gas.

Not sure what to make of the slight hyperglycemia from starch. Do you think this is problematic, or will it resolve itself in time?
Maple syrup has about 98% sucrose, which means it's almost 50% fructose. Honey's fructose content can vary a lot, but is usually around 50% as well. Sweet honey had more fructose than less sweet honey. Honey has fermentable compounds which can cause people to bloat. Maybe maple syrup contains such compounds as well.

Maybe the hyperglycemia/insulin resistance will reverse itself, maybe not. It depends on your body and if it will be able to readapt. Maybe you can try a lower GI food, such as sweet potatoes, instead of white potatoes and rice and see how that goes.
Potassium, magnesium and vitamin B1 will help to improve insulin sensitivity and promote glucose oxidation.
 

Vileplume

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Maybe try strained high quality or homemade juices for a while to see if it's not the fibre, skins or seeds in the fruit that gives you bad digestion symptoms. Don't be too sure it's the fructose that gives you problems until you isolated it as a cause with enough certainty. Just because it counts as a fodmap, doesn't necessarily mean it's the culprit here.

Good idea. I will try fruit juices and see how my body reacts. Thank you.
 

biggirlkisss

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I would try sunlight 1pm and take breaks. Sunlight in car is great the front windsheild blocks uva and uvb. 30 minutes at 1pm is good direct sun exposure to make D from uvb exposure . Are you eating small meals often enough?
 

Vileplume

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@Hans Thanks for this information. Based on the way my body is responding to starches right now, I have confirmed them as a safe food digestively, but not GI-wise. And when I was eating lots of fruit, I had no thirst but tons of bloating—the opposite effect. Perhaps there’s a middle ground.
 

Vileplume

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I would try sunlight 1pm and take breaks. Sunlight in car is great the front windsheild blocks uva and uvb. 30 minutes at 1pm is good direct sun exposure to make D from uvb exposure . Are you eating small meals often enough?

I’ve been getting a good amount of direct sunlight, and it does make me feel good. But the digestive issues persist despite it. I am eating about 5 solid meals a day, but perhaps have been overdoing the fructose or solid fruits.
 

biggirlkisss

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What time are you going to bed? going to bed at 10pm or earlier can really help out your adrenals.
 

Vileplume

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What time are you going to bed? going to bed at 10pm or earlier can really help out your adrenals.

I've been going to bed at 9, and when I first reintroduced some fruit I would knock out right away, but when I upped the amount of fruit and added juice I began tossing and turning a bit. The starch, although easier on my tummy, did not make it any easier to fall asleep last night.
 

biggirlkisss

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I think your ratios are then off. Your balance between protein and carbs. I will wake up at night and If I don't eat I can't fall back asleep. That is helpful but just gotta be careful about your teeth.
 

Vileplume

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I think your ratios are then off. Your balance between protein and carbs. I will wake up at night and If I don't eat I can't fall back asleep. That is helpful but just gotta be careful about your teeth.

Thanks. I drank OJ with dinner tonight and got the same bloating and gas I had before from carbs. Potatoes and rice give me no bloating at all but worse blood glucose response. When you wake up at night, does that usually indicate too high carbs or too high protein?
 

Hans

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@Hans Thanks for this information. Based on the way my body is responding to starches right now, I have confirmed them as a safe food digestively, but not GI-wise. And when I was eating lots of fruit, I had no thirst but tons of bloating—the opposite effect. Perhaps there’s a middle ground.
Perhaps you can try lower GI starches and lower fructose fruits to see how you respond.
When you wake up at night, does that usually indicate too high carbs or too high protein?
It could be low blood sugar, so adrenaline rises to pick up blood sugar and this wakes you up. Lowering acetylcholine and histamine can help keep blood sugar stable during the night.
 

rob

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@Vileplume You could try some cooked and cooled long-grain rice (high amylose) and/or potato for the resistant starch. In theory, this could provide better blood sugar response and, given RS is much more slowly fermented than FODMAPs, less chance of bloating.

That said, having IBD myself, I know all too well how idiosyncratic individual guts can be when it comes to different sources of fibre. To that end, go with what your gut is telling you above all else and build up intake of anything new gradually from a small amount. Also, try to be relaxed when eating as stress/anxiety can significantly perturb digestion.
 
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Vileplume

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Perhaps you can try lower GI starches and lower fructose fruits to see how you respond.

It could be low blood sugar, so adrenaline rises to pick up blood sugar and this wakes you up. Lowering acetylcholine and histamine can help keep blood sugar stable during the night.

I appreciate your thoughts and help in this thread. I never put the pieces together regarding hyperglycemia and my thirst, so that was a HUGE insight that you connected for me.

It seems that certain fruits, at certain amounts, improve my constipation without causing bloating, while too many different fruits at greater quantities cause the constipation to return, with bloating and gas. I have decided that I'm going to slowly introduce select fruits, just one or two at a time and at small doses (a cup with each meal) and see how I do. I will continue to have starches with every meal, but will begin to devote part of that amount to fruit instead. Last night, even though the orange juice caused gas, I slept more deeply, presumably due to more stable blood sugar throughout the night. When I get the exact right fruit amount in my diet, I get benefits from it beyond having just starch. Hopefully in time, the hyperglycemia will dissipate and I will be able to tolerate more fructose.
 

Vileplume

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@Vileplume You could try some cooked and cooled long-grain rice (high amylose) and/or potato for the resistant starch. In theory, this could provide better blood sugar response and, given RS is much more slowly fermented than FODMAPs, less chance of bloating.

That said, having IBD myself, I know all too well how idiosyncratic individual guts can be when it comes to different sources of fibre. To that end, go with what your gut is telling you above all else and build up intake of anything new gradually from a small amount. Also, try to be relaxed when eating as stress/anxiety can significantly perturb digestion.

Thank you! I used potato for the past few days, and although my body digested it very well with no gas, bloating, or constipation, it made me super thirsty, and my temperatures shot up and then dropped down very soon. I definitely still want to include potatoes though because my body cannot handle getting all, or even most of its carbs from fruits, just yet. I have some basmati rice on hand that I will try, and white rice does have a lower GI score than potatoes, so maybe that will help.

You're spot on about the idiosyncrasy of digestive systems--some others on this forum have digestive trouble with starch and not fruits, and I am the opposite. I'm going to apply your advice about gradually building up intake of new things, in this case fruit.
 

Hans

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I appreciate your thoughts and help in this thread. I never put the pieces together regarding hyperglycemia and my thirst, so that was a HUGE insight that you connected for me.

It seems that certain fruits, at certain amounts, improve my constipation without causing bloating, while too many different fruits at greater quantities cause the constipation to return, with bloating and gas. I have decided that I'm going to slowly introduce select fruits, just one or two at a time and at small doses (a cup with each meal) and see how I do. I will continue to have starches with every meal, but will begin to devote part of that amount to fruit instead. Last night, even though the orange juice caused gas, I slept more deeply, presumably due to more stable blood sugar throughout the night. When I get the exact right fruit amount in my diet, I get benefits from it beyond having just starch. Hopefully in time, the hyperglycemia will dissipate and I will be able to tolerate more fructose.
Combining fruit/fructose with starches can help lower the insulin and glycemic response. One study found that having an apple before a starch meal (I think it was rice) halved the glycemic response of the meal.
Maple syrup, honey, high fructose fruit and dried fruit can do the same.

Orange juice with a starch meal can also help to reduce the endotoxin response.
 
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