I Think Young Adults Should Avoid Calf/Beef Liver And Maybe Even Shellfish

lampofred

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Peat recommends these foods because the high copper content antagonizes iron which is dangerous in excess. But copper lowers sex hormones so strongly that it essentially castrates you, so I think calf/beef liver in particular should be eaten only by children or by older people like Dr. Peat. Eggs and chicken liver might be better for young adults, preventing the "over-purity" that makes you not flow with your environment, unless you have an independent source of income or are a tenured professor with no risk of job loss, etc. (This is not from personal experience, the idea just came to me as I was thinking about the effects of iron, copper on energy, brain, sex hormones).

Iron definitely is bad in excess, but I think calcium is a much more moderate and balanced antagonist to iron, as opposed to copper.

Any experiences with very high copper intakes and how it makes you flow/not flow with your environment?
 

Cloudhands

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I ate beef liver 4 oz everyday for 2 weeks and then reduced it to 2 oz every day, and my libido was off the charts and i felt great.
 

laleto12

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after 7 months of carnivore diet and copious amounts of zinc supplements over the course of couple years, I think I should eat shellfish and liver :D
 

Peatful

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As a menstrating teen through 40 year old- I look back and put many pieces together of my (very very) ill health- I have recognized liver would have been wonderfully healing and therapeutic for me.

In moderation.
 

Beastmode

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My toddler eats cod and shrimp weekly and small doses of beef liver. She does great with them. She also drinks a lot of goat milk per day.
 

Dr. B

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Peat recommends these foods because the high copper content antagonizes iron which is dangerous in excess. But copper lowers sex hormones so strongly that it essentially castrates you, so I think calf/beef liver in particular should be eaten only by children or by older people like Dr. Peat. Eggs and chicken liver might be better for young adults, preventing the "over-purity" that makes you not flow with your environment, unless you have an independent source of income or are a tenured professor with no risk of job loss, etc. (This is not from personal experience, the idea just came to me as I was thinking about the effects of iron, copper on energy, brain, sex hormones).

Iron definitely is bad in excess, but I think calcium is a much more moderate and balanced antagonist to iron, as opposed to copper.

Any experiences with very high copper intakes and how it makes you flow/not flow with your environment?

I heard this is why Peat recommends milk and oyster. And only a few ounces, doesnt he just recommend 6oz a liver at most or something? if you are doing something like a half gallon milk a day, combined with an ounce of liver a day, that should put you at a decent total of around 10mg-11mg zinc and 2-3mg copper? liver contains copper, iron, and zinc in a 1:1:1 ratio, around 2.5mg of each per ounce doesnt it. oyster has comparatively less copper but has zinc, iron, copper, in like 15:15:1... if youre trying to get zinc without iron you would have to add some milk. i think ground beef has zinc:iron in 3:2 ratio
 
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lampofred

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I heard this is why Peat recommends milk and oyster. And only a few ounces, doesnt he just recommend 6oz a liver at most or something? if you are doing something like a half gallon milk a day, combined with an ounce of liver a day, that should put you at a decent total of around 10mg-11mg zinc and 2-3mg copper? liver contains copper, iron, and zinc in a 1:1:1 ratio, around 2.5mg of each per ounce doesnt it. oyster has comparatively less copper but has zinc, iron, copper, in like 15:15:1... if youre trying to get zinc without iron you would have to add some milk. i think ground beef has zinc:iron in 3:2 ratio

Maybe that is why Peat recommends it only in very limited quantities but I personally still don't feel comfortable eating it. Eating a small amount might make the absolute quantity of copper low but that won't have any effect on the proportions between all the nutrients.

Another reason for me personally is that I think Peat's foundation of fruit and milk works because it "flows with the cosmic scheme of things" (he himself mentioned this in the On the Back of a Tiger interviews) in that fruit and milk are good for you because they want to be eaten. The next extension of that, once you have exhausted all the food that actually wants to be eaten, is that you should eat creatures that are parasitical (like chickens) as opposed to animals that are very useful, like cows, which might reduce "flow" with the environment (I think "flow" might equal mineral balance, and excess copper is bad for mineral balance).

Of course that's extremely abstract and theoretical, plus I don't really know how to systematically tell whether an animal is parasitical or useful (aside from knowing in general that chickens, low fat, lower copper/higher iron, land animals are more parasitical than fatty, marine, biofiltering, high copper, ruminant animals), so I didn't mention that 2nd reason in my OP, only mentioned that high amounts of copper are essentially castrating in the long-run.
 

mrchibbs

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On the contrary, I strongly believe that children should eat liver/organ meat and shellfish (good quality), along with milk, fruits, butter etc.

Those things are highly nutritious and I believe they can set the course for a great life when given in abundance in early life/development. Things like epigenetic effects and hormonal imprinting can probably be influenced positively in a major way with the ample supply of minerals, b and fat-soluble vitamins and other elements which are mostly found in liver and shellfish.

In adulthood, as things become more stable, the need for these foods may be less pronounced.
 

Uselis

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Maybe that is why Peat recommends it only in very limited quantities but I personally still don't feel comfortable eating it. Eating a small amount might make the absolute quantity of copper low but that won't have any effect on the proportions between all the nutrients.

Another reason for me personally is that I think Peat's foundation of fruit and milk works because it "flows with the cosmic scheme of things" (he himself mentioned this in the On the Back of a Tiger interviews) in that fruit and milk are good for you because they want to be eaten. The next extension of that, once you have exhausted all the food that actually wants to be eaten, is that you should eat creatures that are parasitical (like chickens) as opposed to animals that are very useful, like cows, which might reduce "flow" with the environment (I think "flow" might equal mineral balance, and excess copper is bad for mineral balance).

Of course that's extremely abstract and theoretical, plus I don't really know how to systematically tell whether an animal is parasitical or useful (aside from knowing in general that chickens, low fat, lower copper/higher iron, land animals are more parasitical than fatty, marine, biofiltering, high copper, ruminant animals), so I didn't mention that 2nd reason in my OP, only mentioned that high amounts of copper are essentially castrating in the long-run.
Do you know any of Ray's interview that touches more on a subject? I mean being in a flow with environment, etc.
 

Dr. B

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Maybe that is why Peat recommends it only in very limited quantities but I personally still don't feel comfortable eating it. Eating a small amount might make the absolute quantity of copper low but that won't have any effect on the proportions between all the nutrients.

Another reason for me personally is that I think Peat's foundation of fruit and milk works because it "flows with the cosmic scheme of things" (he himself mentioned this in the On the Back of a Tiger interviews) in that fruit and milk are good for you because they want to be eaten. The next extension of that, once you have exhausted all the food that actually wants to be eaten, is that you should eat creatures that are parasitical (like chickens) as opposed to animals that are very useful, like cows, which might reduce "flow" with the environment (I think "flow" might equal mineral balance, and excess copper is bad for mineral balance).

Of course that's extremely abstract and theoretical, plus I don't really know how to systematically tell whether an animal is parasitical or useful (aside from knowing in general that chickens, low fat, lower copper/higher iron, land animals are more parasitical than fatty, marine, biofiltering, high copper, ruminant animals), so I didn't mention that 2nd reason in my OP, only mentioned that high amounts of copper are essentially castrating in the long-run.

oh yes, I mean the proportion between nutrients wouldnt change with liver but I mean when you combine liver with other foods like milk, oyster. Milk is pretty low in copper and iron. oyster is high in zinc, high in iron, relatively low in copper. beef liver seems to have copper iron and liver in near 1:1:1 ratios.

what do you think of other organ meats? like testicles, pancreas, spleen, blood, heart, kidney, etc.

interesting. i havent yet been able to go through all the back of the tiger stuff!

interesting, why do you say chickens are parasitical while cows are very useful? like what factors make chickens parasitical and cows useful? chickens have eggs, cows have milk. also what would you say about other animals like goat, horse, sheep, camel, etc.
 
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lampofred

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oh yes, I mean the proportion between nutrients wouldnt change with liver but I mean when you combine liver with other foods like milk, oyster. Milk is pretty low in copper and iron. oyster is high in zinc, high in iron, relatively low in copper. beef liver seems to have copper iron and liver in near 1:1:1 ratios.

what do you think of other organ meats? like testicles, pancreas, spleen, blood, heart, kidney, etc.

interesting. i havent yet been able to go through all the back of the tiger stuff!

interesting, why do you say chickens are parasitical while cows are very useful? like what factors make chickens parasitical and cows useful? chickens have eggs, cows have milk. also what would you say about other animals like goat, horse, sheep, camel, etc.

IMO the other organs aren't worth the low calcium to phosphate ratio. I think liver is the most nutritious organ. Nothing else has the fat soluble vitamins and b vitamins that it has. That's why I eat chicken liver occassionally, even though I don't eat beef liver.

I think it comes down to CO2. Useful animals are ones that produce and retain the most CO2. I don't know the difference between rate of CO2 production between a cow & chicken, but in terms of CO2 retention, cows retain a lot more CO2, whereas chickens blow off CO2 via hyperventilation. The main emotion that blows off CO2 is fear (whereas love retains CO2), and there is a reason that fearful people are called "chickens"; chickens are fearful, insignificant animals (not trying to sound harsh towards chickens lol). Sorry that I can't explain more clearly (mainly because it's not fully fleshed out in my own head yet). Also, animals that are safely able to handle a lot of toxins and are good filters of the environment also tend to have good CO2 retention; that's why I think oysters, which are great water filters, may be better replaced by something like cod if looking at diet through the lens of "cosmic scheme of things". With cod you would be getting the trace minerals found only in sea food in moderation, with oysters you would be getting so many trace minerals and zinc that I think it would be too much of a good thing, leading to reduced "flow".
 

Dr. B

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IMO the other organs aren't worth the low calcium to phosphate ratio. I think liver is the most nutritious organ. Nothing else has the fat soluble vitamins and b vitamins that it has. That's why I eat chicken liver occassionally, even though I don't eat beef liver.

I think it comes down to CO2. Useful animals are ones that produce and retain the most CO2. I don't know the difference between rate of CO2 production between a cow & chicken, but in terms of CO2 retention, cows retain a lot more CO2, whereas chickens blow off CO2 via hyperventilation. The main emotion that blows off CO2 is fear (whereas love retains CO2), and there is a reason that fearful people are called "chickens"; chickens are fearful, insignificant animals (not trying to sound harsh towards chickens lol). Sorry that I can't explain more clearly (mainly because it's not fully fleshed out in my own head yet). Also, animals that are safely able to handle a lot of toxins and are good filters of the environment also tend to have good CO2 retention; that's why I think oysters, which are great water filters, may be better replaced by something like cod if looking at diet through the lens of "cosmic scheme of things". With cod you would be getting the trace minerals found only in sea food in moderation, with oysters you would be getting so many trace minerals and zinc that I think it would be too much of a good thing, leading to reduced "flow".

so you think eating animals with lower CO2 retention would be better and more logical? favoring chickens over cows, and cod over oyster, even though the latter retain more CO2? what about milk and honey? so do you think even non milk producing cows should not be eaten, they should only be left to graze and mate with females?
what if you have like an ounce or half an ounce of each organ/gland per week! keeping overall meat intake low. also what if you combine it with something like bone which has like a 2:1 calcium phosphate ratio... shark cartilage has a similar ratio i believe...
doesnt bone marrow have lots of nutrition and the most vitamin K2 out of any animal fat/animal meat organ product?
 
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lampofred

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so you think eating animals with lower CO2 retention would be better and more logical? favoring chickens over cows, and cod over oyster, even though the latter retain more CO2? what about milk and honey? so do you think even non milk producing cows should not be eaten, they should only be left to graze and mate with females?
what if you have like an ounce or half an ounce of each organ/gland per week! keeping overall meat intake low. also what if you combine it with something like bone which has like a 2:1 calcium phosphate ratio... shark cartilage has a similar ratio i believe...
doesnt bone marrow have lots of nutrition and the most vitamin K2 out of any animal fat/animal meat organ product?

i think it would be logical to eat low CO2 animals yes, but this is all more of a hypothesis, i don't really know about the details, plus i don't have concrete evidence aside from the fact that too much copper and trace minerals is bad for mineral balance, and bad mineral balance makes you not "flow". but someone may really need oysters or something for some reason in a specific case, don't want to get too specific about the details and end up sounding reductionistic.
 

Dr. B

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i think it would be logical to eat low CO2 animals yes, but this is all more of a hypothesis, i don't really know about the details, plus i don't have concrete evidence aside from the fact that too much copper and trace minerals is bad for mineral balance, and bad mineral balance makes you not "flow". but someone may really need oysters or something for some reason in a specific case, don't want to get too specific about the details and end up sounding reductionistic.
what about pink salt doesnt that have significant trace minerals. what do you think about drinking milk, and supplementing vitamin k2 or magnesium.
 

Frostee

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Oysters give me the best sexual function (erections) I have ever had since I could remember. I eat plenty of meat for zinc, and still eat lots of dairy. I have gone "on/off" 140g oysters per week so many times I have lost count, and whenever I go back on it is clear as it can be that it is oysters that is causing it. If oysters/copper lower testosterone they seem to be doing a terrible job for me. Oysters are also known as an aphrodisiac worldwide, just not "scientifically proven". I just eat liver 4oz 1x week

I also never ate liver/oysters growing up and my acne was almost the worst out of anyone that I know. I still had problems into adulthood but now I'm acne free

BTW Danny has linked to this article and studies brought up in it has shown that copper can cause harm but only in supplemental form Copper: The Forgotten Essential Nutrient
 

peter88

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Oysters give me the best sexual function (erections) I have ever had since I could remember. I eat plenty of meat for zinc, and still eat lots of dairy. I have gone "on/off" 140g oysters per week so many times I have lost count, and whenever I go back on it is clear as it can be that it is oysters that is causing it. If oysters/copper lower testosterone they seem to be doing a terrible job for me. Oysters are also known as an aphrodisiac worldwide, just not "scientifically proven". I just eat liver 4oz 1x week

I also never ate liver/oysters growing up and my acne was almost the worst out of anyone that I know. I still had problems into adulthood but now I'm acne free

BTW Danny has linked to this article and studies brought up in it has shown that copper can cause harm but only in supplemental form Copper: The Forgotten Essential Nutrient
Canned oysters?
 
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lampofred

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what about pink salt doesnt that have significant trace minerals. what do you think about drinking milk, and supplementing vitamin k2 or magnesium.
Peat doesn't recommend pink salt, only pure white salt, like Morton's Canning & Pickling. I think milk is the greatest food that exists, literally a gift from nature. I think K2 is best gotten from butter, eggs (if you can find high quality ones without PUFA) or liver, not supplemented (I made a thread a few months ago about why I think that: Regularly using pregnenolone/vit K/methylene blue, any of these "too good to be true" substances stops you from progressing in life). I have no opinion on magnesium, I've never really thought about it, since Peat says you will retain enough as long as CO2 is high and that you shouldn't need to focus on it.
 

Dr. B

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Peat doesn't recommend pink salt, only pure white salt, like Morton's Canning & Pickling. I think milk is the greatest food that exists, literally a gift from nature. I think K2 is best gotten from butter, eggs (if you can find high quality ones without PUFA) or liver, not supplemented (I made a thread a few months ago about why I think that: Regularly using pregnenolone/vit K/methylene blue, any of these "too good to be true" substances stops you from progressing in life). I have no opinion on magnesium, I've never really thought about it, since Peat says you will retain enough as long as CO2 is high and that you shouldn't need to focus on it.
doesnt the whiteness have nothing to do with purity? like white sugar and salts, you can tell theyre pure and clean of dirt and any dark colored substances... but otherwise arent there pletny of toxic metals or chemicals which can appear white.
i have heard the white salts and sugars are heavily processed, bleached and extracted. i was thinking maybe pink salt has some interesting useful trace minerals. even has some magnesium supposedly!
so whole milk should also provide decent amount K2?
what about the concept of vitamin d3 supplementation requiring magnesium.. some also claim the modern soil is very depleted of magnesium
 

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