I Think 5 Liters Of Milk A Day Gives Me Diarrhea, But I Don’t Know What Else To Eat

Gadsie

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I’m having a bit of a (mental) crisis. I need quite a lot of calories (at least 3000) to maintain my weight. However, I want to keep my PUFA very low, preferrably under 2 grams. So I drink about 5-6 liters of skim milk a day, and fill the remaining calories with rice, potatoes and a bit of fruit.

Lately however, my stool has been very liquidy and I have to go like 5 times a day. I think milk may be part of the culprit (I was also on a week-course of antibiotics when the problems got worse). I don’t know if it’s the lactose, whey, casein, or simply the amount of liquid.

Anyway, I want to cut back to 2 liters for a few days to see if things change. But I don’t know how to get all those calories without getting large amounts of pufa. I could add even more rice and potatoes and some fruit, but that’s about all I can think of.
 

Nate75

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Hey man I want you to check out my master thread Bodybuilding To Vegan To Carnivore To The Vertical Diet & Ray Peat & MORE
You're going to find a lot of answers there. I've been lurking on this forum for awhile and I've seen a route people take and they start eliminating more and more, to where they are on an extreme unhealthy diet. Because Peating is complex, and within that post you're going to find how I define it and see it in relation to other people in the Health and Fitness world. And you're going to see more on men's health and hidden thyroid disruptors, oxidative stress, ros, emf's and more. it's suggested to read it all on a laptop, with zoom, with a black background.
 

lampofred

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Cook whatever you want using any combination of fat-free starch and lean protein/veggies, and when the recipe calls for fat, use hydrogenated coconut oil. To get the PUFA out of any meats, fry them in coconut oil and re-ry them again. Peat has mentioned he does this to get the PUFA out of bacon.
 

redsun

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I’m having a bit of a (mental) crisis. I need quite a lot of calories (at least 3000) to maintain my weight. However, I want to keep my PUFA very low, preferrably under 2 grams. So I drink about 5-6 liters of skim milk a day, and fill the remaining calories with rice, potatoes and a bit of fruit.

Lately however, my stool has been very liquidy and I have to go like 5 times a day. I think milk may be part of the culprit (I was also on a week-course of antibiotics when the problems got worse). I don’t know if it’s the lactose, whey, casein, or simply the amount of liquid.

Anyway, I want to cut back to 2 liters for a few days to see if things change. But I don’t know how to get all those calories without getting large amounts of pufa. I could add even more rice and potatoes and some fruit, but that’s about all I can think of.

Lean beef is low PUFA(i use sirloin tip cut for example). From what I can tell you are doing low fat diet. If you are cutting down the milk, you'll need protein from somewhere else such as meat. Im surprised you dont seem to eat any? Lean meats in general are very low PUFA but beef especially. If you are of the anti-iron flock on this forum, high calorie fruits like bananas will help with calories. It could be an issue of liquids but also could be the issue of the lack of fat. Your intestines move incredibly quickly eating easily digestible carbs, sugar, and protein.
 

milkboi

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Yeah, low PUFA is tricky regarding digestion.. I use a lot of date syrup for low-PUFA calories, fruit juice jello is a staple as well.
 
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How are you feeling? Does it feel like your gut is inflammed? Maybe it's the casein. Have you ever tried goat milk? What about cow's milk from a small farmer? Apparently, store-bought milk has some gums in it, even though they don't state it on the package of the product. If you can handle the starch well, potatoes are a great replacement for milk. They have very little PUFA even when you eat kilograms of them per day. And they are full of nutrients. Dates and apricots are very dense in calories and provide very low amounts of polyunsaturates. White sugar, honey and sugar syrup can be used for calories, as long as you're getting nutrients from other foods.
 

Gadsie

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Lean beef is low PUFA(i use sirloin tip cut for example). From what I can tell you are doing low fat diet. If you are cutting down the milk, you'll need protein from somewhere else such as meat. Im surprised you dont seem to eat any? Lean meats in general are very low PUFA but beef especially. If you are of the anti-iron flock on this forum, high calorie fruits like bananas will help with calories. It could be an issue of liquids but also could be the issue of the lack of fat. Your intestines move incredibly quickly eating easily digestible carbs, sugar, and protein.
Thank you, for protein a bit of lean beef is not a bad idea
 

Cirion

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+1 on lean beef. Here is a sample day for me lately and I follow most of Peat's principles pretty well although I don't drink milk or eat cheese but other than that...

upload_2019-5-9_11-47-52.png
 

Nate75

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Thank you, for protein a bit of lean beef is not a bad idea
It's exactly what Stan recommends in The Vertical Diet, white rice and lean beef. That is the diet of a bodybuilder who knows how insulin works. Stan has read every single one of Ray's articles. I don't understand the aversion to this woe.
 

Nate75

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+1 on lean beef. Here is a sample day for me lately and I follow most of Peat's principles pretty well although I don't drink milk or eat cheese but other than that...

View attachment 13138

You've seen the example diet that is given for a football player on my thread right? This is nearly the same macro nutrient ratios. Peating has so much common with a healthy pufa free version of IIFYM and The Vertical Diet.
 

Cirion

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You've seen the example diet that is given for a football player on my thread right? This is nearly the same macro nutrient ratios. Peating has so much common with a healthy pufa free version of IIFYM and The Vertical Diet.

Yeah I had a looksie on your thread. It seems your health journey has been similar to mine. I also have followed and/or studied almost every diet under the sun at this point - Keto, Paleo, Matt Stone, Ray Peat, IIFYM, Vertical Diet, Veganism, Carnivore, Food Combining, Dr. Morse, Dr. McDougall,High protein "Bro" diets....

I've taken pieces of what works from all in conjunction with my experiences and studying the experiences of others, doing thought experiments, and reading books to come to this point. I still don't have all the answers, but I think I'm a lot closer. My fat intake is pretty low because I'm fat and dropping some weight down. But I no longer believe in eating low amounts when cutting, so I am keeping carbs high. I have dropped weight 4 days in a row now, so I think I may finally be getting there...Basically the idea is Carbohydrate surplus but fat deficit. Best of both worlds.

I am not yet 100% sure where I stand on fats when one is lean. I do think one (may) wish to eat more dietary fat when one is fat vs. Lean. But I will say, I felt completely amazing eating super low fat (& Very high carb) even the last time I was lean. So I'm not yet sure what I feel about it. Time will tell.
 
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Nate75

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Yeah I had a looksie on your thread. It seems your health journey has been similar to mine. I also have followed and/or studied almost every diet under the sun at this point - Keto, Paleo, Matt Stone, Ray Peat, IIFYM, Vertical Diet, Food Combining, Dr. Morse, Dr. McDougall,High protein "Bro" diets....

I've taken pieces of what works from all in conjunction with my experiences and studying the experiences of others, doing thought experiments, and reading books to come to this point. I still don't have all the answers, but I think I'm a lot closer. My fat intake is pretty low because I'm fat and dropping some weight down. But I no longer believe in eating low amounts when cutting, so I am keeping carbs high. I have dropped weight 4 days in a row now, so I think I may finally be getting there...

It's going to the Peatarians that are most knowledgeable about nutrition, but then again it's not advisable to have labels, because we have done nearly every diet out there. There may be some finer points to make about low fat, high carb, high protein diets. And that is possibly working the pancreas too much to produce insulin. Potassium is a focal point on the vertical diet and one of the reasons why i started eating boiled peeled yukon potatoes, but I think the boiling reduces a lot of the potassium so I will now steam them in an instant pot or roast them in the oven. Ray has said potassium acts like Insulin. Stan has recently posted a infographic on salt helping diabetes patients. So with this low fat diet, I highly recommend looking more in researching GLUT transporters. And I did reference these things to Glutothione production. And within diabetics, glutothione synthesis is significantly diminished.
Stan "Rhino" Efferding on Instagram: “Blasphemy!!. . Haven’t heard from my good friend Dr Ketabchi @bijketabchi in a while. What are your thoughts on this one brother? . #Repost…”

If you guys know The Salt Fix author he is peaty AF. This guy James, does not get enough credit. The Salt Fix - Dr. James DiNicolantonio
 

Cirion

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I remember reading Dr. Kruse's book (I forgot to add him to my list ! Lol! I disagree with him A LOT but he has good things to say on a few things like sunlight, EMF's) and he said something about Glycine being critical for Glutathione production. I forget if RP made a Glycine/Glutathione connection? But, gelatin (glycine) I think is a very crucial thing to eat in any case, so I try to religiously eat it (in home made jello form) every day. Its the only amino acid that doesn't cause problems in the long run. That's one reason I quit milk and cheese. I am highly sensitive to tryptophan, and the benefits of calcium were overshadowed (for me at least) by the negatives of tryptophan. I find protein to be one of the trickier things to get right. I feel bad on high protein, and I feel bad on low protein. 100-150 gram seems to be the sweet spot, and it needs to not be tryptophan, or I'm in bad shape. Beef is relatively low tryptophan, and of course gelatin has zero, so these are my two staples.

Yeah salt and potassium are two other important things for sure. Potassium is one reason fruit is crucial. Potassium and thiamine help metabolize sugars and both are frequently seen in fruits. I started playing with a mostly starch diet McDouglas style but started feeling bad and that's when I realized you need a balance of fruit and starch. I feel bad when I have fruit to the exclusion of starch also. Also, salting starch is a lot more palatable than salting fruit (which I used to do, looking back, was disgusting LOL)
 
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Nate75

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That's a great connection for glycine and glutothione, I remember seeing a thread on here of someone discussing the cofactors of glutothione from a chris masterjohn video on glutothione. With what I know about tryptophan it is the only amino acid to stay in the blood after insulin transports amino acids.


AND HOLY ***t I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT TO AVOID TRYPTOPHAN
Reactive oxygen species target specific tryptophan site in the mitochondrial ATP synthase.
Reactive oxygen species target specific tryptophan site in the mitochondrial ATP synthase. - PubMed - NCBI
 

Cirion

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RP acknowledges the problems of tryptophan, but he thinks you can counteract it with calcium from milk and gelatin/glycine. I think to a degree that's true, but I see more benefit avoiding both calcium and tryptophan. I haven't yet solved the cognitive dissonance in my brain about the positives Ray has spoken about calcium, so maybe I'll try supplementing eggshell or something.
 

Nate75

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RP acknowledges the problems of tryptophan, but he thinks you can counteract it with calcium from milk and gelatin/glycine. I think to a degree that's true, but I see more benefit avoiding both calcium and tryptophan. I haven't yet solved the cognitive dissonance in my brain about the positives Ray has spoken about calcium, so maybe I'll try supplementing eggshell or something.

Chris masterjohn has opinions on egg shell calcium as well. but it could not be so much the calicum but more vitamin D, the Vitamin D uncle jacky likes lol. Parathyroid hormone, calcium and vitamin d have a lot to do with calcium absorption.
 

Tenacity

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Sounds like a mental crisis to me. Drinking that much milk in a day is insane. Why not just be less strict about PUFA? I get more calories than you and it only amounts to just under five grams. Is it really going to make that big a difference long-term, more so than the obvious stress that this way of eating is having on you?
 

opson123

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Iirc you were drinking 2-3 liters a while back? Are you sure, it isn't just the sudden increase of lactose so your gut can't produce enough lactase and needs time to adjust? Why not try a small amount of lactase drops or capsules and slowly reduce the amount.
 

ShotTrue

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I’m having a bit of a (mental) crisis. I need quite a lot of calories (at least 3000) to maintain my weight. However, I want to keep my PUFA very low, preferrably under 2 grams. So I drink about 5-6 liters of skim milk a day, and fill the remaining calories with rice, potatoes and a bit of fruit.

Lately however, my stool has been very liquidy and I have to go like 5 times a day. I think milk may be part of the culprit (I was also on a week-course of antibiotics when the problems got worse). I don’t know if it’s the lactose, whey, casein, or simply the amount of liquid.

Anyway, I want to cut back to 2 liters for a few days to see if things change. But I don’t know how to get all those calories without getting large amounts of pufa. I could add even more rice and potatoes and some fruit, but that’s about all I can think of.
haha bro 3000 isn't even high. Also that amount of milk is really bad
Eat a lot more varieties of meat and carb sources
 

ShotTrue

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It's exactly what Stan recommends in The Vertical Diet, white rice and lean beef. That is the diet of a bodybuilder who knows how insulin works. Stan has read every single one of Ray's articles. I don't understand the aversion to this woe.
haven't heard of the vertical diet, seems interesting
 
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