I Slashed My Prolactin And Doubled My Vitamin D In 12 Weeks - Here Is How

[benaoao]

Thanks for the precision @ebs . I’ve read the same contradictions about HIGH LH, however low LH isn’t desirable. Although the body adapts to a lot of variance but my gut feeling is there’s a hypothyroidism/hypopituitary interrelationship here

I thought the rate limiter for pregnenolone from cholesterol was p450 or STAR mitochondrially?

You have 2 steps
- sTAR transfers the cholesterol from the outer to the inner membrane o the mitochondria. LH mediated
- P450scc (side chain cleavage) well... cleaves cholestérol in the mitochondria

A study in rats I’d need to find again showed that sodium lowers P450scc activity whereas potassium boosts it. But the rate limiter is the transfer, not the cleavage - can’t cleave what’s not transferred

 

[benaoao]

Ok my bad, in older people P450scc May be the rate limiting factor

Leydig cell aging: steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) and cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme. - PubMed - NCBI

Study in rats tho, I didn’t spend more than a few minutes this has probably been studied in humans

Please note that the SERM idea I gave isn’t universally accepted in all men and it’s not something Ray Peat is huge on IIRC. Although SERMs are vastly overdosed in my opinion

Discussion on SERMs / TRT / Leydig stimulation here Leydig Cell Aging and Hypogonadism

 

[mmb82]

ok but vitamin D will lower PTH and PTH will induce glycosis, so are you ever supposed to get better if you are in a constant stress state because you are never lowering your PTH, ray has said 5kiu of D is safe

...and PTH is literally the only thing affecting stress? There are so many other factors that can contribute to stress in an organism and I doubt high PTH is causing people so much stress that they can't "get better", especially if they are conscious of their calcium intake, which most people following a Peat-inspired diet are.

And sure, vitamin D will lower PTH since it helps calcium absorption, but again, it is not the only thing modulating the levels of calcium and phosphorus in the blood nor is it the only thing responsible for proper calcium absorption and metabolism. You are pointing out one variable in a list of 20 and taking a very simplistic look at a more complex system.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Yea it makes me think we are pretty good on the dopamine side of things. I get almost no effect from coffee and aminos people use that report increases in dopaminergic effects

I wish I had the patience to try single modalities at a time, unfortunately i cant order my own bloodwork so i had to jump at the opportunity to get it low as soon as possible.

You haven't tried ordering labs online before? There's lot of sites now where you can order your own tests....

 

[Luckytype]

You haven't tried ordering labs online before? There's lot of sites now where you can order your own tests....

I live in (hopefully not much longer) one of the most restrictive states in the US, unleas theres a way around it unfortunately im at the mercy of Dr. Idiot, M.D.

 

[A.R]

The website above gives some recommendations that are diet related actually, if you scroll down.

They also mention growth hormone and I’ve seen you did the test, although IGF-1 may be more helpful if that’s where you’re short. I could cite MK677 as promising

I’m more informed when it comes to Hypogonadism rather than advanced thyroid strategies. Maybe attacking the other way round would be worth a trial since as they say lowering TSH is far from telling the full story. And that t3/rT3 ratio is concerning as of now.

Anyhow LH activity is the rate limiting factor to cholesterol conversion into pregnenolone. So that alone deserves some work.

Some people go straight to hCG which I don’t think is optimal since hCG is foreign from a pharmacology standpoint. But even then I’ve seen reports of lowered cholesterol. Doesn’t mean it will all go straight to DHEA>T though (and not e2!), that’s also dependent on stress and SHBG. Like I said I’m not aware of non-SERMs strategies that significantly raise (and in a natural, circadian way) LH-FSH. I’d need some added googling

Which particular serm and at what dosage would you recommend

 

[benaoao]

Tamoxifen 5mg would be my preferred choice, Clomid 12.5mg weaker with more side effects (but more studies on it and more HRT doctors used to it), every day or every other/even 3rd day depending on how it feels

Never ever take bodybuilders doses but that’s nothing new ha

I’ve read on high doses vitamin e yielding similar effects to tamoxifen (quick pubmed search) and indeed there are studies that show a mild effect on pituitary. So this could be worth a trial too. Totally not aware of any HRT practitioner advocating vitamin E by the way.

 

[charlie]

I love this thread.

 

[Arnulf]

I love this thread too! I really need to slash my Prolactin numbers too, so I am definitely following this thread. Shame I cant get any of the cyrpo and lisuride here where I live (Scandinavia), since everything is so strict. But I will get as much sun as I can in the coming months! I have been using B6, Vitamin E and Mucuna, as well as practising semen retention, but it only lowered it from 286 to 216. Testosterone, SHBG and LH and FSH is still loooooow, so I look forward to hear how this is going Luckytype! :)

 

[Douglas Ek]

No you’re not thinking too simple. More LH means more LDL being transported to the mitochondria to get all the hormones. Simple

More theoretical although valid imo:

“nahypothyroidism.org/deiodinases/

Testosterone

Low testosterone in men will result in a lowering of D1 activity without changing pituitary D2 (143). Thus, a drop in testosterone will result in lower tissue levels of T3 without producing an elevation of TSH (143,144). Environmental factors, including pesticides, plastics, and other pollutants, have resulted in a significant decrease in the average testosterone levels for men, so most men will have, at least, a relative deficiency of testosterone (277). Major laboratories have, unfortunately, reduced the “normal” range of free testosterone to maintain the 95 percentile as normal, the result being that many abnormally low levels will now be considered normal.
In particular, the majority of male diabetics and those with insulin resistance will have suppressed testosterone level that is in the low or low-normal range, which further suppresses D1 and tissue T3 levels and perpetuates the weight gain or inability to lose weight — worsening of these conditions “

So T going lower could mean T3 going lower / rT3 going higher.

That’s why I’d work on the testes

From same website:
Iron deficiency
Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (238-242). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (238,239,241,242).





If theres studies that show under 70 in ferritin reduce T3 I would suspect optimal ferritin is more mid range for men around 140-150 so yours ideal. Also dopamine get hammered by having too low iron and I could suspect this could cause high prolactin aswell. Getting my iron up arojnd the 150 range helped me tremendously in general. I believe you should only get worried once ferritin rises above 200.

 

[managing]

From same website:
Iron deficiency
Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (238-242). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (238,239,241,242).





If theres studies that show under 70 in ferritin reduce T3 I would suspect optimal ferritin is more mid range for men around 140-150 so yours ideal. Also dopamine get hammered by having too low iron and I could suspect this could cause high prolactin aswell. Getting my iron up arojnd the 150 range helped me tremendously in general. I believe you should only get worried once ferritin rises above 200.

How did you raise your ferritin?

 

[Douglas Ek]

How did you raise your ferritin?

Iron tablet combined with retinol and copper worked really fast for me. But I guess eating liver really often would be about the same. But that would be like eating liver everyday