I Personally Only Got Better After Starting To Exercise A Lot

[Kasper]

From:
http://co2factor.blogspot.com/
"Eat sugar/protein, preferably something high quality like milk and Oj, before, during and after exercise."

From my experience, this is absolutely not necesarry and eating before exercise definitely makes my exercise performances worse. Too much energy/blood goes to digestion, while all your energy/blood should go to your muscles.

Besides that, the vibration you make during running, I think kind of rubs the food throughout year gut and stomach, and this irration can cause a huge increase in serotonin. I can literally feel this irritation, and makes me feel really bad, so I try to avoid that at all cost.

Muscles contain glycogen, I think you need to exercise for quite some time before you run out of this carb source. And besides that the liver stores 120 gram of glycogen, I think you need to have fasted for hours before you run out all your stored carb sources. Therefore, I think exercising on an empty stomach is perfectly healthy and fine:

Muscle cell glycogen appears to function as an immediate reserve source of available glucose for muscle cells. Other cells that contain small amounts use it locally, as well. As muscle cells lack glucose-6-phosphatase, which is required to pass glucose into the blood, the glycogen they store is available solely for internal use and is not shared with other cells. This is in contrast to liver cells, which, on demand, readily do break down their stored glycogen into glucose and send it through the blood stream as fuel for other organs.

The same argument I think goes for coffee. I think if you are in a healthy state, you can perfectly drink coffee, or use caffeine on an empty stomach. This argument that you need coffee together with carbs just doesn't make sense to me logically, as your body stores plenty of carbs as glycogen, I think it take quites some time before you run out of all your glycogen stores. If I don't eat anything beside coffee for the first 6 hours of the day, I feel perfectly fine, and I don't have any stress reaction.

Probably, depends per person, but I don't think we should scare all people that you should eat carbs all day long to have a healthy metabolism, or that you have to eat carbs before exericse, it just doesnt make sense.

 

[HDD]

Kasper,
Do you have hypo symptoms? Cold extremities? Your low pulse indicates hypothyroid. Could your increase in pulse be from stress hormones? I question because my husband and son both have low pulse, hypo symptoms. They surf for exercise/pleasure and my son also lifts weights. They both benefit greatly from surfing. I don't have any pulse/temp measurements from after surfing but once they have eaten, their mood is great. I think with surfing they get the added benefits of sunshine and saltwater.

 

[Kasper]

I do have htpo symptomps if my pulse is low. But not if my pulse is high after exercise.

I don't feel stressed, after exercise, I feel warm and relaxed after exercise. But I'm not totally sure how stress hormones feel, so I can't really tell.

I don't feel stressed in the sense of worrying, being scared etc. I feel proactive and driven, not totally sure if this drive comes from stress. But my intuition would say this is the opposite of stressed.

Funny, because the number one exercise that makes me feel good is surfing. But running outside until I sweat also feels good.

 

[tara]

Muscles contain glycogen, I think you need to exercise for quite some time before you run out of this carb source. And besides that the liver stores 120 gram of glycogen, I think you need to have fasted for hours before you run out all your stored carb sources. Therefore, I think exercising on an empty stomach is perfectly healthy and fine:

...

The same argument I think goes for coffee. I think if you are in a healthy state, you can perfectly drink coffee, or use caffeine on an empty stomach. This argument that you need coffee together with carbs just doesn't make sense to me logically, as your body stores plenty of carbs as glycogen, I think it take quites some time before you run out of all your glycogen stores. If I don't eat anything beside coffee for the first 6 hours of the day, I feel perfectly fine, and I don't have any stress reaction.

Probably, depends per person, but I don't think we should scare all people that you should eat carbs all day long to have a healthy metabolism, or that you have to eat carbs before exericse, it just doesnt make sense.

I think you are right that it depends on the person - some of us seem to have trouble storing enough glycogen to last between meals, others can eat one or two meals a day without stress, vigourous activity or no. For those of us that run out of glycogen quickly, I think it does make sense to fuel up around exercise.

For me, I also notice it depends on time of day.

 

[Kasper]

@tara, yeah absolutely, I believe experimentating your own body is most important

I did another experiment without coffee this morning.

Before exercise 55 to 65. Just after waking up.
Only took aswhaganda power on an empty stomach this morning, 30min before exercise, nothing else.

Aswagandha is known to lower stress hormones btw.

After exercise 70 to 80 bpm.

 

[halken]

I think one other thing that may be the reason people react so badly on exercise, is when people exercise with food in the stomach. I think this may cause a massive increases in serotonin. Especially for people with digestive issues.

I always try to exercise on a empty stomach.

That or just carrot salad and OJ.

 

[barefooter]

For me, I've noticed something particularly beneficial about doing any form of exercise first thing in the morning before breakfast. It can be super short, like 20 minutes, and it seems to have a profound positive impact on the rest of my day. In theory, you could argue I'm upping stress hormones, but when I'm done (esp. after breakfast) I feel very relaxed and more confident/positive about my day. I have a theory that in my case, maybe a short acute stressor is actually very beneficial to me.

I think I've been running on stress for a very long time. It's a feedback loop between my mind overthinking/worrying, and my body not being well, that is very hard to break. My mind/body don't see any end to it, so there is no signal to let my guard down. What I think even just a short amount of physical activity does is provide me with a short acute stressor that is very escapable, unlike the inescapable (seemingly anyway) stress of my daily reality. So, I'm sure the exercise on an empty stomach ups my stress hormones, but then very quickly there is an abrupt and clear end to it--a signal that my body can finally relax. This I think improves my digestion when I eat my breakfast, since my body is in a relaxed place to digest and sets me on a path to a better day.

 

[Peata]

For me, I've noticed something particularly beneficial about doing any form of exercise first thing in the morning before breakfast. It can be super short, like 20 minutes, and it seems to have a profound positive impact on the rest of my day. In theory, you could argue I'm upping stress hormones, but when I'm done (esp. after breakfast) I feel very relaxed and more confident/positive about my day. I have a theory that in my case, maybe a short acute stressor is actually very beneficial to me.

I think I've been running on stress for a very long time. It's a feedback loop between my mind overthinking/worrying, and my body not being well, that is very hard to break. My mind/body don't see any end to it, so there is no signal to let my guard down. What I think even just a short amount of physical activity does is provide me with a short acute stressor that is very escapable, unlike the inescapable (seemingly anyway) stress of my daily reality. So, I'm sure the exercise on an empty stomach ups my stress hormones, but then very quickly there is an abrupt and clear end to it--a signal that my body can finally relax. This I think improves my digestion when I eat my breakfast, since my body is in a relaxed place to digest and sets me on a path to a better day.

Interesting timing, because I've wondered whether to take my walk before breakfast or after.

 

[Dean]

That's an interesting theory, barefooter. I'm guessing the intensity and duration of the exercise would be a pretty big factor in determining if first-thing-in-the-morning exercise is beneficial or detrimental. I've never been a morning person and it's a struggle to try to prioritize between things like getting a good breakfast, getting sufficient protein down early in the day, not eating right upon waking, restoring glycogen stores, getting some morning sun, making the time for some light, enjoyable exercise that can set the tone for the day, etc.

 

[gretchen]

I bet you're a blood type O. I also experience benefits from HIIT (I'm an O), but haven't been well enough to do it (too many changes). I might later. I'm actually pretty good at burpees.

But actually, I disagree. Walking is enough if you control calories and do enough of it. All exercise, even just standing, fixes blood sugar issues and increases fat burning. And n.e.a.t. (non exercise activity thermogenesis) is as if not more important than structured intense exercise routines. Get up and walk around a lot; sitting is what kills people, according to news stories I've heard frequently the last year or so. I track this and aim for at least 1.5 hours a day. It all adds up.

 

[Kasper]

I like walking a lot, but it doesn't seem to increase my sitting heartrate for the rest of the day so much.

If I intensively run right in the morning, it seems to increase my heart rate for the rest of the day.

 

[HDD]

From:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... -exercise/

‎”Incidental stresses, such as strenuous exercise combined with fasting (e.g., running or working before eating breakfast) not only directly trigger the production of lactate and ammonia, they also are likely to increase the absorption of bacterial endotoxin from the intestine. Endotoxin is a ubiquitous and chronic stressor. It increases lactate and nitric oxide, poisoning mitochondrial respiration, precipitating the secretion of the adaptive stress hormones, which don’t always fully repair the cellular damage.”


"Even on the mornings that you don’t drop dead, there is reduced adaptive capacity and functional impairment before eating breakfast. For example, men who went for a run before breakfast were found to have broken chromosomes in their blood cells, but if they ate breakfast before running, their chromosomes weren’t damaged.”

 

[Peata]

From:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... -exercise/

‎”Incidental stresses, such as strenuous exercise combined with fasting (e.g., running or working before eating breakfast) not only directly trigger the production of lactate and ammonia, they also are likely to increase the absorption of bacterial endotoxin from the intestine. Endotoxin is a ubiquitous and chronic stressor. It increases lactate and nitric oxide, poisoning mitochondrial respiration, precipitating the secretion of the adaptive stress hormones, which don’t always fully repair the cellular damage.”


"Even on the mornings that you don’t drop dead, there is reduced adaptive capacity and functional impairment before eating breakfast. For example, men who went for a run before breakfast were found to have broken chromosomes in their blood cells, but if they ate breakfast before running, their chromosomes weren’t damaged.”

Thanks, Diane.

 

[Kasper]

"Even on the mornings that you don’t drop dead, there is reduced adaptive capacity and functional impairment before eating breakfast."

It seems like Ray Peat thinks that people drop dead when doing exercise first thing in the morning. But I don't feel like dropping dead at all. I just truly enjoy it.

Maybe this an American culture thing, where people try to over achieve, over exercise and things. If you keep listening to your body, keep breathing slowly, don't push, but get pulled by your inner child that want to play outside, first thing in the morning, I don't think you will feel like dropping dead.

A friend of me, has a child, and he let his child eat whenever she is hungry. She can choose only between orange juice, other fruits, eggs, fish and meat. A little Ray Peat like. She never wants to eat in the morning. She just want to play. Outside, inside, she is very active. She only eats from late in the afternoon and she looks extremely healthy and happy.

Maybe, you Americans think about exercise like training yourself to dead. Pushing yourself like crazy, I don't believe in that.

 

[gretchen]

^^Actually, I've read the best time of day to exercise is in the late afternoon between 4-6 pm. I did a daily high intensity cardio class at that time beginning in my mid teens (age 16) through my earlier 20s and it did seem to be better than workouts I've done in the morning. Working out first thing in the morning is a cliche.

 

[mt_dreams]

^^Actually, I've read the best time of day to exercise is in the late afternoon between 4-6 pm. I did a daily high intensity cardio class at that time beginning in my mid teens (age 16) through my earlier 20s and it did seem to be better than workouts I've done in the morning. Working out first thing in the morning is a cliche.

The reason for this is due to our cortisol being out of whack in the morning, and exercising while this is taking place is pretty insane. Usually by mid afternoon most people's cortisol levels have normalized, making it much easier on the body to absorb the punishment. Heck even a high level chi guy who lives on my street waits until after he's eaten & digested to do some of his routine, and his movements are pretty subtle. Though his reasons have more to do with joint usability than cortisol.

No matter how anybody tries to convince me regarding their morning workouts, all I see is someone that's imprisoned ... and I'm pretty sure if their bodies could talk, it would say the same thing.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes. In America if you don't work out on a weekly basis and work your tail off at your career, you're considered lazy. If your not eating salads with grilled chicken and egg whites and salmon with asparagus you are eating poorly. There's this constant emphasis in the media on being your best self and pushing things to the limit. It's a very ego driven, competitive society, especially on the east and west coast. "I'll sleep when I'm dead." is a quote I hear all the time. "You need to want it as bad as you want to breath." is another one. I don't know how people do it. I burnt out pretty quickly trying to keep up. People work from 9 am to 10 pm and then try to squeeze in a workout a couple times a week. It's insane. I'm baffled by it all sometimes. Low calorie diets and constant demands on the body. No wonder everyone's on so many psych meds.

 

[IWishIWasRich]

I agree, like I said before, when I try to eat more while not lifting, it feels bloated. And it's depressing not having a good body anyway. Even if you were perfectly healthy, what's the point if you are not looking good.
Thats just me. When I look in the mirror, I want to look good, not have an skinnyfat body.
Im not talking about a bodybuilder physique or anything insane, something like Ronaldo is I think a great body to have.

 

[tara]

And n.e.a.t. (non exercise activity thermogenesis) is as if not more important than structured intense exercise routines. Get up and walk around a lot; sitting is what kills people, according to news stories I've heard frequently the last year or so. I track this and aim for at least 1.5 hours a day. It all adds up.

I agree with you that there's a problem with too much sitting.
I notice I do a lot more NEAT when I eat more than when I eat less. Lots more stretching, wriggling, more energetic walking and upright posture, more expressive face, more generous discretionary movement all round. If I don't eat as much, I'm more likely to stay slouched in my chair with a blank face, or walk slowly and woodenly.

 

[tara]

Wanting to exercise is a sign for me that I'm improving. Exercising without that feeling causes stress symptoms. Exercising with that feeling does lots for me.