I Have Tried It All: T4, T3-only, T3/T4-combo, NDT. Here I Share What I Learned

[thingsvarious]

Update:
I am on reboxetine (noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor) and I found that the T3 used in conjunction causes some racing thoughts. I wonder if anybody else had this experience? (e.g. on bupropion)

So I have been experimenting with T4 only treatment. Will update

 

[thingsvarious]

So, the promised update:

On T4 only, I feel somewhat "weaker" (body energy), sleep is longer and better (SWS and REM increased a lot), and I am not as impulsive. The upside is that I am less hungry, more content.

I will do a blood test tomorrow and then perhaps add in 2x 3mcg of T3 to see whether it makes a difference or not.

 

[thingsvarious]

Many people keep emailing me how to best test for cortisol. Well, thats complicated. Generally, cortisol is incredibly hard to test for. I have seen an elevated cortisol many times in total cortisol, but often CBG is high. Generally, a good indicator of adrenal health is DHEA-S. Other than that, in my experience, urinary and salivary cortisol are not worth much. The best may simply be a trial and error of a small dose of HC (e.g. 5mg). If you strongly feel it, you may assume that cortisol is low. If you feel nothing, then cortisol is likely not your problem. Read more about this topic at hormetheus.com/cortisol

 

[thingsvarious]

Common question: Is there a difference in outcome between plasma levels achieved by exogenous hormone replacemnet vs. endogenous hormone secretion (e.g. testosterone of 600 by endogenous means vs. testosterone of 600 by exogenous replacement)?

Yes. Exogenous replacement shuts off the releasing hormones at the hypothalamus (e.g. GnRH) as well as the stimulating hormones at the level of the pituitary (e.g. LH, FSH). At the level of the hypothalamus the releasing hormones (e.g. GnRH, CRH, etc.) are also transmitted into the nervous system. Furthermore, various tissues have receptors for stimulating hormones (e.g. LH-receptors in the adrenal glands, TSH receptors on fibroblasts, etc.) and if there is suppression at the level of the hypothalamus these additional pathways are shut off which should result at least in a tiny measurable difference. This should also be taken in account when thinking about hormone replacement

 

[thingsvarious]

Update: After replacing my thyroid for 3 years, I have been off any thyroid meds now for 4 weeks. Blood test revealed a TSH of 1.8 and a fT4 at the top of the reference range and a fT3 at the bottom - so it seems that at least my hypothalamus has perfectly recovered. The most important "ingredient" has been semaglutide (Ozempic)

 

[thingsvarious]

Update: Using 8IU of insulin detemir as a basal insulin (a very small dose), my fT3 levels are now well within the reference range. After gene expression changes have reversed, I´ll taper off the insulin

 

[chompie]

Update: After replacing my thyroid for 3 years, I have been off any thyroid meds now for 4 weeks. Blood test revealed a TSH of 1.8 and a fT4 at the top of the reference range and a fT3 at the bottom - so it seems that at least my hypothalamus has perfectly recovered. The most important "ingredient" has been semaglutide (Ozempic)

Still off Thyroid meds? And did you stop t4 cold or taper?

 

[thingsvarious]

Still off Thyroid meds? And did you stop t4 cold or taper?

I am still off thyroid meds. I did taper but only over the course of a few weeks. I describe it in detail in my new article The Simulated Refeed

 

[thingsvarious]

The drug semaglutide has increased my thyoid hormones like nothing else. I have written about my experience with semaglutide here: The Simulated Refeed
I also share some tips and tricks and observations while using semaglutide. Never has a drug made as much of a difference for me.

 

[thingsvarious]

Currently experimenting again with T3. 3x 12.5mcg T3 (now on it for 2 months) has elevated my baseline energy quite a bit. I esp. do not seem to get tired while sitting for a long time. This just reminds me again how crucially important the thyroid is for general health and wellbeing

 

[chompie]

Currently experimenting again with T3. 3x 12.5mcg T3 (now on it for 2 months) has elevated my baseline energy quite a bit. I esp. do not seem to get tired while sitting for a long time. This just reminds me again how crucially important the thyroid is for general health and wellbeing

How is that possible. It was just 3 weeks ago that you confirmed you were still off thyroid?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Currently experimenting again with T3. 3x 12.5mcg T3 (now on it for 2 months) has elevated my baseline energy quite a bit. I esp. do not seem to get tired while sitting for a long time. This just reminds me again how crucially important the thyroid is for general health and wellbeing

T3 mono-therapy never works on a long enough timespan.

 

[golder]

T3 mono-therapy never works on a long enough timespan.

Thanks for this. What’s the fastest way to be able to tolerate 1:3 or 1:4 ratios of T3:T4 when T3 solo seems to work markedly better?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Thanks for this. What’s the fastest way to be able to tolerate 1:3 or 1:4 ratios of T3:T4 when T3 solo seems to work markedly better?

I can't answer this. In my opinion, T3 has more of a stimulant effect, and less of a therapeutic / healing one, due to its very short half-life. It's very unstable, it can cause irregular heartbeats and sleep issues. It does seem to work great in the first few couple of days. And I wonder how the bodybuilders who use it during cutting cycles find it effective.
True therapeutic effect I only noticed from T4, it gives you a nice and stable metabolic boost, in comparison with T3, which gives you a hectic boost that is short-lived.

 

[TheCodez]

I can't answer this. In my opinion, T3 has more of a stimulant effect, and less of a therapeutic / healing one, due to its very short half-life. It's very unstable, it can cause irregular heartbeats and sleep issues. It does seem to work great in the first few couple of days. And I wonder how the bodybuilders who use it during cutting cycles find it effective.
True therapeutic effect I only noticed from T4, it gives you a nice and stable metabolic boost, in comparison with T3, which gives you a hectic boost that is short-lived.

I thought maybe I was crazy. T3 mono has almost zero effect on me. For me T4 (with a little T3) is life changing.

 

[invictus]

Thats interetsing that you need that much. How long have you been on that dosage?
How long did it take you to work your way up to that dose?
What was the results of the lower dosages? did you not notice much and then suddenly at that high dosage everything started kicking in?
What brand are you using atm? have you tried brands that did not work?
I have been taking 5 grains and did not notice that much and i thought i should try something else since i never thought going higher would do the trick. My temp and pulse raised alittle on 5 grains. Seems like a costly dosage also everyday :p

Thanx

Ray Peat was quoted about two of his clients(I believe); one taking 10 grains per day and another taking 15 grains per day. Indicative, IMO, of thyroid hormone resistance. Read on healthunlocked thyroid UK of people taking 7 to 8 grains, daily. Same on Stopthethyroidmadness.com. You need what you need. Yes, perhaps you can consume 3 to 4000 calories a day to upregulate your metabolism(Matt Stone/180degree Health) if you're okay with the subsequent weight gain. But if a person has thyroid hormone resistance, I don't believe eating a high calorie, nutrient dense diet is going to overcome defects or dysfunction in the HPTA.

 

[invictus]

I can't answer this. In my opinion, T3 has more of a stimulant effect, and less of a therapeutic / healing one, due to its very short half-life. It's very unstable, it can cause irregular heartbeats and sleep issues. It does seem to work great in the first few couple of days. And I wonder how the bodybuilders who use it during cutting cycles find it effective.
True therapeutic effect I only noticed from T4, it gives you a nice and stable metabolic boost, in comparison with T3, which gives you a hectic boost that is short-lived.

Excellent! That's what I've been reading over the years from two psychiatrists; Dr. Peter Whybrow and Dr. Michael Bauer, who've been using supraphysiologic doses of T4 to treat rapid cycling bipolar(which I have) and bipolar depression; T4 improving glucose metabolism in the brain. IIRC, Dr. Whybrow had stated that T3 is too stimulating. I've been using NDT but, similarly, found it too stimulating and not helping my non-restorative sleep. Just started on T4 @ 200 mcg.

 

[oxphoser]

4:1 for me, 240mcg of T4 or so every day, and 60mcg of T3.

Hello,
Are you breaking up your T3 dosage? I thought that it is only possible for the body to absorb 5-7 mcg of T3 an hour? I mention this because I was taking 25 mcg at a time and didn’t realize it was doing harm until my alkaline phosphatase levels came back elevated. I then stopped taking 25 mcg T3 at a time and my alkaline phosphatase levels went back down.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Hello,
Are you breaking up your T3 dosage? I thought that it is only possible for the body to absorb 5-7 mcg of T3 an hour? I mention this because I was taking 25 mcg at a time and didn’t realize it was doing harm until my alkaline phosphatase levels came back elevated. I then stopped taking 25 mcg T3 at a time and my alkaline phosphatase levels went back down.

In small doses throughout the day.

 

[Matestube]

I can't answer this. In my opinion, T3 has more of a stimulant effect, and less of a therapeutic / healing one, due to its very short half-life. It's very unstable, it can cause irregular heartbeats and sleep issues. It does seem to work great in the first few couple of days. And I wonder how the bodybuilders who use it during cutting cycles find it effective.
True therapeutic effect I only noticed from T4, it gives you a nice and stable metabolic boost, in comparison with T3, which gives you a hectic boost that is short-lived.

What dose of T4 are we talking about?
Would it cause any increase in rT3?