I Have Tried It All: T4, T3-only, T3/T4-combo, NDT. Here I Share What I Learned

[thingsvarious]

Thanks so much.

Is it an over the counter medicine?

No, it is prescription medicine of course. Similar to HC but just a slight deviation from it with an acetate (2C) side chain

 

[Elize]

Thanks so much

 

[thingsvarious]

Thanks so much

It might not be available in many countries, as they only have HC unfortunately

 

[Austin Resch]

I have all B,s separate. Potassium in range. Having labs done on Monday. Thyroid Low T4 i

which form of B1 have you tried?

 

[Elize]

Thiamine HCl (Vitamin B1) from Bulk Supplements

 

[mad539]

@thingsvarious I've also got long-running issues with my thyroid that I haven't been able to fix no matter the dosage.

I've gotten my Free T3 and Free T4 in their proper places (that is, T4 in the middle of the normal range and T3 in the upper quadrant of the normal range) but it's not translating to better symptoms...at least not when I was taking T3 only and my FT3 was in the middle of the normal range and FT4 was really low.

I did experience a good moment last year that lasted for no more than a month. I was on T3 only for a long time (around 100mcg) and then added in Ancestral Supplements' Thyroid (it's like a liver and thyroid NDT mix). That removed most of my hypo symptoms for a while...but pretty soon they returned and I kept upping my dose of both T3 (got it up to 140mcg), Ancestral Supplements and also NDT until the positive effects eventually wore off too...

But here's the thing...even with those massive thyroid doses I did not have hyper symptoms. I actually had hypo symptoms. Low body temps every morning, constipation, etc.

Bear in mind, my blood work still showed that my FT3 and FT4 were in the healthy ranges (FYI, my TSH went suppressed the minute I started taking T3), but it just wasn't translating to how I felt before.

I didn't go back to feeling as bad as I did before I started taking my thyroid meds, but it was nowhere the "normality" I felt when I was on T3 only and had introduced NDT in the first few weeks.

This tells me that thyroid isn't the only thing at play here and the other hormones matter...I just can't figure out which ones. I've tried preg, progesterone and they haven't done much. I don't know where to get DHEA - if you're based in Europe, maybe you could let me know? And also, I haven't found a doc yet that will give me HC...but even if they did I'm not sure how long to take it. It might be the same issue as with T3/NDT/T4, where it works well initially and you feel amazing but then the effect stops. And you're left wondering, do I stop and restart in a week or two, or do I increase the dose even more?

Let me know if you have any ideas on what to do, because you don't know how much it sucks to have only been given 1 month of a "normal" life and years and years of chronic sickness because no one can help me figure out what to do, and I'm just plugging around in the dark.

You might try the CT3M method of Paul Robinson (Paul Robinson Thyroid | Thyroid Books | Books on Hypothyroidism | Hypothyroidism Book | Thyroid Treatment Book | Recovering from Hypothyroidism books series | Hypothyroidism Recovery), see here:

Why I Needed to Create the Circadian T3 Method (CT3M) and Why it Can Be So Helpful in Thyroid Patient Treatment - Paul Robinson Thyroid

CT3M stands for Circadian T3 Method. I created this approach over twenty years ago, in order to raise my cortisol from a desperately low level to a healthy level. It requires no use of hydrocortisone or adrenal glandulars to do this. It just the use of T3 thyroid medication (Liothyronine). For...

paulrobinsonthyroid.com

In short, you take a T3 dose between 10-25µg 1.5-4.0 hours before waking up. This should stimulate the adrenals to produce cortisol and could even reset a dysfunctional HP axis.

Here is a thread:

Circadian T3 Method - why taking thyroid hormone at the proper time is important

If you're having issues with thyroid supplementation, part of the issue may be the time you are taking your supplements. Supplementing with thyroid hormone outside of physiological windows can cause issues with circadian timing in the pituitary. It is important to work in concert with the bodies...

raypeatforum.com

 

[thingsvarious]

You might try the CT3M method of Paul Robinson (Paul Robinson Thyroid | Thyroid Books | Books on Hypothyroidism | Hypothyroidism Book | Thyroid Treatment Book | Recovering from Hypothyroidism books series | Hypothyroidism Recovery), see here:

Why I Needed to Create the Circadian T3 Method (CT3M) and Why it Can Be So Helpful in Thyroid Patient Treatment - Paul Robinson Thyroid

CT3M stands for Circadian T3 Method. I created this approach over twenty years ago, in order to raise my cortisol from a desperately low level to a healthy level. It requires no use of hydrocortisone or adrenal glandulars to do this. It just the use of T3 thyroid medication (Liothyronine). For...

paulrobinsonthyroid.com

In short, you take a T3 dose between 10-25µg 1.5-4.0 hours before waking up. This should stimulate the adrenals to produce cortisol and could even reset a dysfunctional HP axis.

Here is a thread:

Circadian T3 Method - why taking thyroid hormone at the proper time is important

If you're having issues with thyroid supplementation, part of the issue may be the time you are taking your supplements. Supplementing with thyroid hormone outside of physiological windows can cause issues with circadian timing in the pituitary. It is important to work in concert with the bodies...

raypeatforum.com

I tried the CT3M. For me it did not do much (if anything at all), however, it seems to work well for many. It likely depends on the severity of HPA-dysfunction

 

[golder]

The circadian T3 method, is that just a dose of T3 around 4 hours prior to waking? I want to try it but I really don't want to set a stressful alarm in the middle of the night in order to do it lol. Does anyone know roughly what T3 dosage is advocated?

 

[thingsvarious]

The circadian T3 method, is that just a dose of T3 around 4 hours prior to waking? I want to try it but I really don't want to set a stressful alarm in the middle of the night in order to do it lol. Does anyone know roughly what T3 dosage is advocated?

I tried it but I did not notice much of a difference. I did it for around 2 months -setting the alarm around 2h before waking up

 

[Motif]

How to replace thyroid hormones: fix the liver. Breath deeply & properly.

What would you say works best for fixing the liver ?

 

[Nebula]

I've tried everything also. What's working well for me is T4 and T3. Pure T3 didn't work and I read and followed Willson's protocol but it wasn't for me. Now I'm doing much better on mixed T3 and T4, even better than on NDT.

Do you think your period of T3 only therapy was necessary to help you respond well to T4?

 

[mrseb]

@thingsvarious

Do you think that it is possible to do tests with different dosage of thyroid, T4 / T3 or T3 alone, without the risk of being worse than before when the treatment is stopped? in your experience, how long does it take for the gland to adapt to produce as before?

I am curious to know in particular to test a T3 therapy alone. Thank you for your experience sharing.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Do you think your period of T3 only therapy was necessary to help you respond well to T4?

No I doubt it. But it's worth trying. Lots of people make it work and then they can wean off entirely. I could not. I needed T4 and T3.

@thingsvarious

Do you think that it is possible to do tests with different dosage of thyroid, T4 / T3 or T3 alone, without the risk of being worse than before when the treatment is stopped? in your experience, how long does it take for the gland to adapt to produce as before?

I am curious to know in particular to test a T3 therapy alone. Thank you for your experience sharing.

I don't think there is any sense in testing. Use a good oral thermometer and heart rate as the gauge.

 

[mrseb]

I don't think there is any sense in testing. Use a good oral thermometer and heart rate as the gauge.

yes thank, i agree and i am using a thermometer and reading my heart rate. But I also have a high RT3 and would like to try different T4 / T3 or T3 test alone. I would rather know if the gland adapts quickly to different dosage or if I stop the treatment, the time it will take to get back to my baseline condition.

 

[sweetpeat]

yes thank, i agree and i am using a thermometer and reading my heart rate. But I also have a high RT3 and would like to try different T4 / T3 or T3 test alone. I would rather know if the gland adapts quickly to different dosage or if I stop the treatment, the time it will take to get back to my baseline condition.

This study indicates that it could take at least 4 weeks to return to baseline:
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH. Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. N Engl J Med. 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal. PMID: 808728

 

[equipoise]

Some supression is always to be expected when using supraphysiological doses of endogenous hormones. Most are not bothered by this given the fact they are hypo. Be wary of any thyroid supplementation if you don't know what you're doing. However, internet has given us plenty of quality info to read upon. Broda Barnes is a must, Danny Roddy has a great article 'Demistifying thyroid supplementation'.

On a side note, T3 is very popular in bodybuilding for boosting metabolism and keeping the fat down. Cycles of T3 are done in order to prepare for a contest. And it's gradually added in (Ray style) while monitoring temps and pulse. Usually it's a 6 week cycle at an optimal dose and then titrated back to baseline. This way ensures minimal supression if any.

 

[Waynish]

What would you say works best for fixing the liver ?

I don't know a one-sized fits all, but the top thing for people with damaged livers is probably to stop damaging it. Circadian rhythm, eating enough, exercising more, walking around after eating, and all the other stuff mentioned on this forum to reduce stress and unburden the liver. Not against low dose thyroid, but it doesn't make sense why people need so much. I'm also skeptical that the synthetic T3 is truly identical to the endogenous.

 

[bavy]

From my work in the past, I know that some people do require some cortisone for a short while in some cases, and so this doesn't surprise me. But most people do notHow

4:1 for me, 240mcg of T4 or so every day, and 60mcg of T3.

How are you doing with this dose now? Are you still one it? I have to take a lot as well...it freaks me out but reading this made me feel better.

 

[ecstatichamster]

In summer (now) 100/25 mcg. Winter more. Maybe 150 - 175 mcg T4 and 40 - 50mcg T3.

 

[thingsvarious]

In summer (now) 100/25 mcg. Winter more. Maybe 150 - 175 mcg T4 and 40 - 50mcg T3.

I also go lower in thyroid in the summer.
Thierry Herthogue as well as other "hormone gurus" seem to do the same