I Have Tried It All: T4, T3-only, T3/T4-combo, NDT. Here I Share What I Learned

[Peroxphos]

My results were crap until I introduced small doses of cortisone acetate.

Has Ray Peat ever mentioned something about a minimum level of cortisol being required for optimal thyroid function and sugar ox-phos?

 

[Spartan300]

Thanks @thingsvarious, although very slowly improving, my symptoms according to your reports, most closely correlate with low GH.

High androgens, high adrenals including cortisol. Low mood, low libido, poor sleep, reduced exercise capacity and recovery.

Might be something I can discuss with gp and get tested.
Ahead of that does anyone have any suggestions to improve gh naturally.
Low bodyfat and fasting are going to come up I guess.

And I know that Peat doesn't like gh but I think this is a balance thing. If it is low it's low...

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks @thingsvarious, although very slowly improving, my symptoms according to your reports, most closely correlate with low GH.

High androgens, high adrenals including cortisol. Low mood, low libido, poor sleep, reduced exercise capacity and recovery.

Might be something I can discuss with gp and get tested.
Ahead of that does anyone have any suggestions to improve gh naturally.
Low bodyfat and fasting are going to come up I guess.

And I know that Peat doesn't like gh but I think this is a balance thing. If it is low it's low...

I doubt that taking GH would be a good idea. It would be better to get the body more into balance through higher calcium, zero PUFAs, good thyroid supplementation, good healthy carbs and 80g - 100g of protein, I would think.

 

[thingsvarious]

I doubt that taking GH would be a good idea. It would be better to get the body more into balance through higher calcium, zero PUFAs, good thyroid supplementation, good healthy carbs and 80g - 100g of protein, I would think.

What do you consider the optimum amount of carbs per day?

 

[Spartan300]

Hi @ecstatichamster , thanks for the tips. For the last 4years I have avoided PUFA, gotten 100g+ protein and everything else that is recommended here. Calcium I get through moderate dairy and sometimes supplemental egg shell. I've not really tried high calcium, perhaps I should.
Supplementing thyroid has improved things more than anything but still a long way to go.

I'm also 2 weeks into progesterone trial which seems to be good for mood but as yet not improved anything else.

It's just that I've not had as much success as I'd hoped and symptoms correlate to low GH. Sleep is my biggest concern. Even taking thyroid, progesterone, cypro before bed I don't get into a deep sleep and wake a couple of times every night.
Could fixing thyroid/temps improve GH status?

 

[milkboi]

Hi @ecstatichamster , thanks for the tips. For the last 4years I have avoided PUFA, gotten 100g+ protein and everything else that is recommended here. Calcium I get through moderate dairy and sometimes supplemental egg shell. I've not really tried high calcium, perhaps I should.
Supplementing thyroid has improved things more than anything but still a long way to go.

I'm also 2 weeks into progesterone trial which seems to be good for mood but as yet not improved anything else.

It's just that I've not had as much success as I'd hoped and symptoms correlate to low GH. Sleep is my biggest concern. Even taking thyroid, progesterone, cypro before bed I don't get into a deep sleep and wake a couple of times every night.
Could fixing thyroid/temps improve GH status?

IIRC, acetylcholine is important for the release of GH. Cypro has a significant anti-cholinergic effect. So taking Cypro might be counterproductive in your case if GH is really too low.

 

[LuMonty]

Has Ray Peat ever mentioned something about a minimum level of cortisol being required for optimal thyroid function and sugar ox-phos?

He mentions that here: Blocking Tissue Destruction
It's a great read and he mentions other things to look at and fix. He talks about using cortisone at physiological levels about halfway through.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

T4 and T3

I tried synthetic T3 + T4 and don't see perceived benefits from it. I mean, if I take a higher dose, my heart rate will increase, but that's about it. It does not improve my mood or energy levels.

 

[Spartan300]

Thanks @milkboi I'll see if increasing egg consumption does anything

 

[RPDiciple]

4:1 for me, 240mcg of T4 or so every day, and 60mcg of T3.

Thats interetsing that you need that much. How long have you been on that dosage?
How long did it take you to work your way up to that dose?
What was the results of the lower dosages? did you not notice much and then suddenly at that high dosage everything started kicking in?
What brand are you using atm? have you tried brands that did not work?
I have been taking 5 grains and did not notice that much and i thought i should try something else since i never thought going higher would do the trick. My temp and pulse raised alittle on 5 grains. Seems like a costly dosage also everyday :p

Thanx

 

[Broco6679]

NDT in morning/afternoon with T4 at bed has worked good for me.

What ratio of T4:T3 does that turn out to be?

I've seen a lot of people doing well combining synthetic T4 w/ NDT giving a ratio of 10:1 T4:T3. It goes against what Ray says (he thinks hypo people need a a lower ratio), but the ratios found in NDT seem to be too much T3 for a lot of people.

 

[Broco6679]

I really loved reading your articles especially the one on adrenals.
My experience exactly matches yours in terms of internal feelings while on small dose HC. And by low dose I mean something like 3,75 mg of it (I take 2/3 of the dose around 08 am and the other 1/3 at lunch.).
Taking HC was definitely a lifechanger.
The only difference is that I add 50 mg of pregnenolone and a bit of T4 (12,5 mcg) before bed to my HC protocol.
I can feel the difference when I don’t take the preg and T4.

Real interesting - thanks for sharing your experience.
Can I ask how you felt on thyroid before taking the HC?
Has the 3.75mg caused any notable adrenal suppression / reduction in serum ACTH?

 

[stsfut]

What ratio of T4:T3 does that turn out to be?

I've seen a lot of people doing well combining synthetic T4 w/ NDT giving a ratio of 10:1 T4:T3. It goes against what Ray says (he thinks hypo people need a a lower ratio), but the ratios found in NDT seem to be too much T3 for a lot of people.

3/4 grain at waking, 3/4 grain 8 hours later, 1/2 grain at bed time plus 75mcg T4. So 2 grains plus 75mcg T4 daily. 18/151 or about 1:8 for me.

 

[username]

I have a bunch of armour thyroid and am not sure how to use it. I have many hypothyroid symptoms: fatigue, thin eyebrows, cold hands, etc. Recently tested my TSH after taking 1/2 grain of armour every morning for 3 weeks, and it was 1.71 (I didn't take armour the morning of the test).

Should I be taking armour on an empty stomach or with food?
Should it be taken multiple times per day, or all at once?
Is there too much to take at once? (I feel like Ray Peat has suggested that too much at once is bad because the liver will produce enzymes to break down... t2 was it?)

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Jsaute21]

I've tried everything also. What's working well for me is T4 and T3. Pure T3 didn't work and I read and followed Willson's protocol but it wasn't for me. Now I'm doing much better on mixed T3 and T4, even better than on NDT.

T4 before bed, T3 throughout the day?

 

[ecstatichamster]

T4 before bed, T3 throughout the day?

Both divided in 3 doses. Cynoplus.

 

[Sergey]

Guys, where did you get the sustained release t3 for Wilson protocol?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Guys, where did you get the sustained release t3 for Wilson protocol?

I didn’t. I just nibbled on 25mcg T3 pills.

 

[RPDiciple]

@ecstatichamster
Thats interetsing that you need that much. How long have you been on that dosage?
How long did it take you to work your way up to that dose?
What was the results of the lower dosages? did you not notice much and then suddenly at that high dosage everything started kicking in?
What brand are you using atm? have you tried brands that did not work?
I have been taking 5 grains and did not notice that much and i thought i should try something else since i never thought going higher would do the trick. My temp and pulse raised alittle on 5 grains. Seems like a costly dosage also everyday :p

Thanx

 

[Sergey]

I didn’t. I just nibbled on 25mcg T3 pills.

Ah, ok, I see.
I got very positive initial response from tyronene but had to up dose to 80 mcg per day. After a week or so took a little bit of t3/t4 and it was very very uncomfortable - anxious, jittery, poor concentration.
Just re read your post, t3 only didn’t work for you, I thought it helped.