"I Have To Eat More" Really? Not My Experience

[ecstatichamster]

Two kinds of people post here.

Those who can't eat enough, aren't hungry, etc.

And people like me, who are always hungry.

I wish it wasn't so.

I got my lab tests back. Insulin a little high, glucose 100 (fasting), TSH 1.6, T fell a bit (670 now), high estrogen, high ferritin, low D3.

I'm taking D3 again (had stopped for some months thinking summer would protect me), and donating blood. And being super careful about my diet.

I think I added 30 pounds since my last tests in Dec-2015.

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm always hungry.

So my new diet is more like

more OJ, 1% milk, ripe fruit, no cheating, and a "normal" dinner of a protein and maybe a cooked veggie. Oysters or liver once a week.

My goal is to lose 20 pounds over the next 6 months which is slow enough not to be harmful and fast enough to stay motivated.

And my other goal is not to be eating so much.

I eat the ground mushrooms and drink the juice. I may try this twice a day and see if my estrogen levels fall.

 

[Jarman]

I always thought that you don't want to lose weight because based on your observation, people who lost weight are sicker...

 

[ecstatichamster]

I always thought that you don't want to lose weight because based on your observation, people who lost weight are sicker...

I kind of changed my mind.

I think slow weight loss is okay. I think I'll try it.

 

[Crazycoco]

Eat more fat, cause the fat you eat is the fat you hit.

John fatdougall

 

[DaveFoster]

Two kinds of people post here.

Those who can't eat enough, aren't hungry, etc.

And people like me, who are always hungry.

I wish it wasn't so.

I got my lab tests back. Insulin a little high, glucose 100 (fasting), TSH 1.6, T fell a bit (670 now), high estrogen, high ferritin, low D3.

I'm taking D3 again (had stopped for some months thinking summer would protect me), and donating blood. And being super careful about my diet.

I think I added 30 pounds since my last tests in Dec-2015.

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm always hungry.

So my new diet is more like

more OJ, 1% milk, ripe fruit, no cheating, and a "normal" dinner of a protein and maybe a cooked veggie. Oysters or liver once a week.

My goal is to lose 20 pounds over the next 6 months which is slow enough not to be harmful and fast enough to stay motivated.

And my other goal is not to be eating so much.

I eat the ground mushrooms and drink the juice. I may try this twice a day and see if my estrogen levels fall.

 

[Crazycoco]

Two kinds of people post here.

Those who can't eat enough, aren't hungry, etc.

And people like me, who are always hungry.

I wish it wasn't so.

I got my lab tests back. Insulin a little high, glucose 100 (fasting), TSH 1.6, T fell a bit (670 now), high estrogen, high ferritin, low D3.

I'm taking D3 again (had stopped for some months thinking summer would protect me), and donating blood. And being super careful about my diet.

I think I added 30 pounds since my last tests in Dec-2015.

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm always hungry.

So my new diet is more like

more OJ, 1% milk, ripe fruit, no cheating, and a "normal" dinner of a protein and maybe a cooked veggie. Oysters or liver once a week.

My goal is to lose 20 pounds over the next 6 months which is slow enough not to be harmful and fast enough to stay motivated.

And my other goal is not to be eating so much.

I eat the ground mushrooms and drink the juice. I may try this twice a day and see if my estrogen levels fall.

What was your diet before?

 

[Xisca]

Fill your stomach as often as you need with ripe fruits.
I would also find a way to make a tasty salad, if you find nice fresh ingredients. With olive oil and cider vinegar.

Edit: Any changing ones mind needs congratulations! Chapeau!

 

[ecstatichamster]

I take thyroid supps. I'm still a bit hypo. But lately, lately, my temps are hitting around 98.1 during the day. Still a bit cold but way better than before (in the 96s and 97s.)

My diet was a low carbish paleo-ish diet with a lot of intermittent fasting and my BP was often 105/65 and my temps really low and I didn't feel as good in some ways.

I gained 30 pounds consuming tons of fat and carbs at the same time as I was experimenting.

 

[Crazycoco]

I would also find a way to make a tasty salad, if you find nice fresh ingredients. With olive oil and cider vinegar.

May be too mediteranean here
But i agree, there is no FATality.
Eat more Fat!

The fat you eat is just the fat you lose.

 

[theLaw]

I guess my biggest point is that for many (maybe most) people coming to Peat, diet alone will not fix things even if they manage to keep fat intake close to 0%. Supplementation is likely necessary and often drugs like thyroid and maybe some other pro-metabolic agent (i.e. anti-serotonin, anti-prolactin, anti-estrogen) would be needed to keep the metabolism form crashing while the body recovers. There are plenty of reports on this forum of lean people getting stress response symptoms from fructose or sucrose and that I can only attribute to malfunctioning liver and maybe some sort of peripheral insulin resistance. Diet alone is probably not going to fix their issues. If it were as simple as just finding the right diet, there would be no big industry for type II diabetes, insulin resistance, etc.

Once you get to a basic diet that does not cause you a stress reaction or symptoms of toxic metabolite buildup you can (if needed) add some metabolic boosting agents like caffeine or thyroid (if needed). Monitor temperature and pulse and if any of these extra substances gives you a stress reaction then either back down or increase nutrients. Overall, the body is very good at regenerating. If you get to a diet that does not harm you (in terms of ratio of protein, carbs, and fat) it takes about 2-3 weeks to get to a much healthier level where you can expand on your success and change nutrient ratios or amounts, add different supplements, etc. Initially I gained more than 30 lbs on the Ray Peat "diet" until I finally figured it out, and for me it was liver function that had to improved with caffeine and vitamin K2 before things got better. That does NOT mean that this is what will work for you since your situation/context is almost certainly different from mine. But that's why you start with something common in all people - smaller meals of basic nutrients that can be controlled and adjusted and once you get to a working version of a diet that does not affect you badly you build up from there. Again, Peat write about many things that are useful IN ISOLATION, but in order for them to be working for you context will have to be taken into account. If your current context (it changes over time like everything else) is such that a supplement or recommendation from Peat stresses you out then it better to work on changing the context instead of forcing that supplement or recommendation on yourself.

 

[Crazycoco]

gained 30 pounds consuming tons of fat and carbs at the same time as I was experimenting

Ok i stop my fatdougall references

just be aware of the calories. For example: dont eat between meals. Just two fruits Max. Eat larges meals with fats. Your meals HAVE TO teste good. If then you are getting hungy: Think of a food you crave. Imagine it, imagine eating it. And eat it BUT... the day after. It relaxed me a lot when i was trying to lose weight

 

[ecstatichamster]

fats seem to make me fat.

I'm going to keep doing 1/2 gallon of 1% milk, and phase out starch over time, and just cheat less. I was eating a bunch of cookies every night. Those have iron in them and also a lot of fat.

Also restaurants are tough. But I think I can do it if I eat lean foods when I eat out.

 

[Ella]

And people like me, who are always hungry.

I phased out starches, grains and bread and drank a lot milk and lots of fruit, liver and shellfish and a little meat and found that I was hungry all the time. I was always thinking about food and looking at what I could eat next. I was permanently gazing. I lost weight this way - a lot of weight. However, I felt a little maniac, like running on adrenaline, not calm and methodical. It felt like I was on speed. I did not like this feeling. Good if you need to push through a lot of work but I think stressful in the long run because I felt I was wide awake til the early hours of the morning going to bed around 4am and sometimes 5am. I would be up again at 10am without fatigue. It did not sit comfortably with me.

and phase out starch over time

I could do this in the hot summer months but as Autumn and Winter approached, I felt I needed more starchy foods. I found that when I introduced porridge at breakfast and sourdough bread with my poached egg and a slice of toast with marmalade. I could work until 2.00 - 3pm and never think about food. In fact I had to watch the clock so that I would not miss out on eating at the right time of 12 - 1pm. I never had a snack between breakfast and lunch except for tea. I had to get rid of the coffee and now only ocassional 1 cup if that, during the day. Tea also needs to go and swap for just milk but really crave a nice relaxing cup of tea.

I also have a proper lunch which may be soup which includes root vegetables, mushrooms, beans and a little whole grain with gelatin broth and sometimes a little pasta if I am not using grains. This is followed by my main meal; my biggest meal of the day with lots of veggies and some sort of protein + starchy veggie like potato and then finally stewed fruit with custard or a glass of milk. Even though I put back the starches, I am still having lots of fruits with my starches. My porridge will have dates, dried prunes or stewed apples/pears and dates.

I have greatly reduced fat, as yes, for me the fat you eat is the fat you wear. I am baking my cakes again with organic unbleached white flour with whole oranges. I am trying to reduce the butter in the recipe because butter is too expensive. I have eaten so much of this cake as I have tonnes of citrus at the moment as I can't use them fast enough. It is simply gorgeous with a glass of milk. I am not going to deny myself this pleasure. Pleasure = reduced stress hormones. A lifetime of stress hormones is way too much.

My last meal dinner will be a bowl of my lunch time soup which I will have a piece or 2 of sourdough bread.

I know this is not PC as far as being Peaty friendly but I have experimented with all sorts of dietary regimes and having the starch in my diet works nicely for me. I have not put on the weight and can easily lose more by changing calories and removing starches. But I don't want to do this in winter, as the weather has been freezing and I need the warmth of the comfort foods. I am just going to work my muscles harder, because I am no longer in a catabolic state and exercise intolerant. No muscle stiffness after working hard or doing physical labour or being wiped out for the rest of the week.

The best part is that my blood sugar regulation is much improved. I attribute this to less free fatty acids in the system and improved insulin. Insulin is required to convert T4 - T3 and responsible for the efficient use of macronutrients.

I have increased my focus and can concentrate on the task at hand without being distracted for many hours. When I do experience brain fatigue from working too long, I will have my Oj with salt and gelatin and this will allow me to keep going or simply alert me that I need to turn the brain off and do something physical. I have been off pregnenolone for a long time now and my face has slimmed down. So noticeable that people who have not seen me for 12 months are asking what am I doing. Weight loss and beautiful unlined skin. I always had good skin but now in my old age is attracting more attention. My daughter was shocked when a beauty therapist (in the antiageing community) asked me to talk to her peers on how I keep my skin line free. People ask me what I put on my skin. To their dismay, I put no lotions and potions on it. I do nothing to it. I don't think this would go down well with the beauty industry. I found increasing, the starchy carbohydrates makes my skin more plump and moist. Doing just fruit, my hands looked wrinkled. I think this is because carbs attract more water. The orange juice and coffee, dried all my mucuosal membranes from my nasal passage to vagina. With the reintroduction starchy carbs, bread, grains, legumes and pasta; this is no longer an issue for me. I know I will receive the wrath of the almighty on this forum. Please accept that it is what works for me. Don't hate me because I am different, if I am going to die eating like this, then so be it. It feels right for my body and if done in moderation and I have plenty of energy and don't get fat and have a waist and no wrinkles, then I think these are positives and not negatives.

Caveat: I am not recommending this style of eating is for everyone. I know too well that there are many individuals that can't eat these foods and in their current state should not eat them. Celiac's being one group that shouldn't. It has taken me a long time to find the optimal diet for me. I found that with more liver in the diet, gluten bread and pasta does suit me. After all I am Italian. However, I am eating a varied seasonally appropriate diet and I am pedantic about food quality and proper preparation of difficult to digest foods. I think improved eyesight, skin and blood sugar regulation are important positives for me.

BTW. I have always been different to other people and is the reason I never understood behaviour of many of my peers. It may have something to do with being Rh negative :) As there are very few of us in the population (something like 14%) perhaps we also have different nutritional needs, high need for calories to support our ability to just keep on going at a higher level than the rest of the population.

Peat said somewhere, if what you are currently doing isn't working then do the opposite.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

Peat said somewhere, if what you are currently doing isn't working then do the opposite.

I think you're confusing Ray Peat with George Costanza

 

[Wagner83]

Why do you ditch starch again?

 

[Ella]

Sorry, I have no idea who George Costanza is.

This advice was given to me by Ray when I was having difficulty in making sense of my research puzzle. I think the balance is crucial and the carrot fibre has been of enormous benefit to me. Eating seasonally so that you don't over consume any particular food. We are now going into spring and so I have lots of green leafy greens and as we get back to summer, then I will have tonnes of fruit and will have little need for grains, bread, pizza and pasta. I will probably be making icecream rather than cakes to keep me cool. I won't have much need for root vegetables, except beetroot for salads and juices to keep me hydrated and cool. I will be inundated with summer fruits and meals will focus on these and yummy ice-cream cakes with lovely fruits sorbets and jellies. Yeap, it will certainly be dessert all day. I can't get through those hot days without my luscious ice-cream treats. Pizza will still be on the menu to use up all those yummy vegetables with shrimps and oysters; make way for more casual and light meals.

I love my food too much to restrict and get easily bored. I am always looking out for that exciting taste sensation. Eating for me is very sensual and food must always excite my taste buds along with table setting, environment, cutlery and crockery. I know it sounds insane but I can't help it. My sandwiches have to be made in a certain order otherwise if it does not excite; I rather not eat if it disgusts me. It can't just be slap dash as it ruins my enjoyment of eating. This obsession of mine drives everyone around me nutty. I can't help it and don't understand why others don't view food the way I do. It sounds very elitist but to me feeding my body is the most important thing. I won't be made to feel guilty for loving my food. It is analogous to feeling guilty in having sex.

I track my nutrients and if I am low then I will increase those foods that give me the biggest bang. I let my nutrient requirements dictate how I should eat along with temps and pulse and quality of sleep. Also how content I feel is a good metric. If eating cake and icecream places me at peace with my lot; then it can't be a bad thing.

 

[jet9]

I phased out starches, grains and bread and drank a lot milk and lots of fruit, liver and shellfish and a little meat and found that I was hungry all the time. I was always thinking about food and looking at what I could eat next. I was permanently gazing. I lost weight this way - a lot of weight. However, I felt a little maniac, like running on adrenaline, not calm and methodical. It felt like I was on speed. I did not like this feeling. Good if you need to push through a lot of work but I think stressful in the long run because I felt I was wide awake til the early hours of the morning going to bed around 4am and sometimes 5am. I would be up again at 10am without fatigue. It did not sit comfortably with me.



I could do this in the hot summer months but as Autumn and Winter approached, I felt I needed more starchy foods. I found that when I introduced porridge at breakfast and sourdough bread with my poached egg and a slice of toast with marmalade. I could work until 2.00 - 3pm and never think about food. In fact I had to watch the clock so that I would not miss out on eating at the right time of 12 - 1pm. I never had a snack between breakfast and lunch except for tea. I had to get rid of the coffee and now only ocassional 1 cup if that, during the day. Tea also needs to go and swap for just milk but really crave a nice relaxing cup of tea.

I also have a proper lunch which may be soup which includes root vegetables, mushrooms, beans and a little whole grain with gelatin broth and sometimes a little pasta if I am not using grains. This is followed by my main meal; my biggest meal of the day with lots of veggies and some sort of protein + starchy veggie like potato and then finally stewed fruit with custard or a glass of milk. Even though I put back the starches, I am still having lots of fruits with my starches. My porridge will have dates, dried prunes or stewed apples/pears and dates.

I have greatly reduced fat, as yes, for me the fat you eat is the fat you wear. I am baking my cakes again with organic unbleached white flour with whole oranges. I am trying to reduce the butter in the recipe because butter is too expensive. I have eaten so much of this cake as I have tonnes of citrus at the moment as I can't use them fast enough. It is simply gorgeous with a glass of milk. I am not going to deny myself this pleasure. Pleasure = reduced stress hormones. A lifetime of stress hormones is way too much.

My last meal dinner will be a bowl of my lunch time soup which I will have a piece or 2 of sourdough bread.

I know this is not PC as far as being Peaty friendly but I have experimented with all sorts of dietary regimes and having the starch in my diet works nicely for me. I have not put on the weight and can easily lose more by changing calories and removing starches. But I don't want to do this in winter, as the weather has been freezing and I need the warmth of the comfort foods. I am just going to work my muscles harder, because I am no longer in a catabolic state and exercise intolerant. No muscle stiffness after working hard or doing physical labour or being wiped out for the rest of the week.

The best part is that my blood sugar regulation is much improved. I attribute this to less free fatty acids in the system and improved insulin. Insulin is required to convert T4 - T3 and responsible for the efficient use of macronutrients.

I have increased my focus and can concentrate on the task at hand without being distracted for many hours. When I do experience brain fatigue from working too long, I will have my Oj with salt and gelatin and this will allow me to keep going or simply alert me that I need to turn the brain off and do something physical. I have been off pregnenolone for a long time now and my face has slimmed down. So noticeable that people who have not seen me for 12 months are asking what am I doing. Weight loss and beautiful unlined skin. I always had good skin but now in my old age is attracting more attention. My daughter was shocked when a beauty therapist (in the antiageing community) asked me to talk to her peers on how I keep my skin line free. People ask me what I put on my skin. To their dismay, I put no lotions and potions on it. I do nothing to it. I don't think this would go down well with the beauty industry. I found increasing, the starchy carbohydrates makes my skin more plump and moist. Doing just fruit, my hands looked wrinkled. I think this is because carbs attract more water. The orange juice and coffee, dried all my mucuosal membranes from my nasal passage to vagina. With the reintroduction starchy carbs, bread, grains, legumes and pasta; this is no longer an issue for me. I know I will receive the wrath of the almighty on this forum. Please accept that it is what works for me. Don't hate me because I am different, if I am going to die eating like this, then so be it. It feels right for my body and if done in moderation and I have plenty of energy and don't get fat and have a waist and no wrinkles, then I think these are positives and not negatives.

Caveat: I am not recommending this style of eating is for everyone. I know too well that there are many individuals that can't eat these foods and in their current state should not eat them. Celiac's being one group that shouldn't. It has taken me a long time to find the optimal diet for me. I found that with more liver in the diet, gluten bread and pasta does suit me. After all I am Italian. However, I am eating a varied seasonally appropriate diet and I am pedantic about food quality and proper preparation of difficult to digest foods. I think improved eyesight, skin and blood sugar regulation are important positives for me.

BTW. I have always been different to other people and is the reason I never understood behaviour of many of my peers. It may have something to do with being Rh negative :) As there are very few of us in the population (something like 14%) perhaps we also have different nutritional needs, high need for calories to support our ability to just keep on going at a higher level than the rest of the population.

Peat said somewhere, if what you are currently doing isn't working then do the opposite.

Ella hi! I know it’s and old post of yours, but could you please make and update ?
Do you still feel better in terms of concentration when combining sugar with starch?

I like how I feel when getting ALL my carbs fruit, but only for 1-2 days, after that I find that it’s impossible for me to concentrate on work. And the only thing that fixes that is adding back starch to diet. Not sure, maybe I am doing something wrong.