I Have Insomnia, Is The Ray Peat Diet For Me?

[Wonderdog]

I think my insomnia started when i went on a zero sugar and low carb diet, a somewhat paleo like diet, a couple years ago. At that point in time my sleep began to not be so deep but I was still getting around 7.5 hours of sleep.


A year or so in the paleo diet, my sleep got worse where I would wakeup with soar jaws from teeth clenching. Often I would wakeup from nightmares, heart pounding sometimes body sweating. At the time, I thought i was stressed out with life and actually went to go see a psychotherapist, which of course did not help at all. During this time. I started doing intermittent fasting on and off, which looking back don't think helped my situation. I was getting 6-6.5 hours of sleep on average at the time.


Fast forward and I often will wake up between 3am and 4am.I think I have high cortisol at night which is preventing me from getting quality sleep. Some of my current symptoms include:

- I have a decrease in cognitive abilities, short term memory loss

- Sometimes I wakeup with a slight headaches and/or very hungry, if I go too long without food I get slight headaches (I don't intermittent fast anymore)

- I can get anxiety throughout the day, probably due to lack of quality sleep

-When i wake up I have lower back pain sometimes unable to bend down to touch my knees

-I have inflamed gums/gingivitis.

- I think I have lost muscle and gained about 20 lbs of weight.


I went to my doctor and my blood tests came back normal, and my doctor told me I am an overall healthy guy and that I could not sleep because I was stressed out and depressed and he recommended anti-depressants, I told him to take a hike more or less.


Before I discovered this forum I was taking an extend bar, magnesium powder, 1 tbs of fiber and glycerol at night to help improve sleep. It helped a little. The glycerol does help get rid of nightmares.


After reading the forum a little, I have read someone suggest taking coconut oil, sugar and salt. How much of each do I take before bed?

Is the Ray Peat diet for me?

Any help would be appreciated


-Wonderdog

 

[Elie]

you will find lots of threads here about the value of Peat's dietary principles for insomnia. Increase in metabolism, decrease in stress, improvement in thyroid function all help with better sleep. Just google insomnia / sleep and ray peat and you will find both articles and threads.

 

[Lecarpetron]

Sleep doctors are the biggest joke in medicine. They reject any possibility that sleep disruption can be caused by physiological stress at the root rather than psychological stress.

Sounds like your ANS is stuck in high gear from the stress of low carbs and fasting. Indicated by your not being able to bend down, and by clenching jaws. Google "central nervous system and flexibility." Bruxism is also driven by the nervous system.

The reason you aren't sleeping isn't that you ate 5 grams of PUFA rather than 4. So consider eating Peaty as supportive but not curative for insomnia. Be very careful not to undereat, which is easy to do when you get started in Peatland. Don't be too strict about it, if I may suggest as a fellow insomniac. Sometimes the only thing standing between you and sleep is a cheeseburger and a chocolate shake, at least early on in your recovery from malnutrition.

Peat has a few articles/interviews that mention that the body must be in a high energy state to relax. I'd start by reading his articles.

 

[paymanz]

Here is a quote from ray peat answering about insomnia,

Histamine and serotonin promote wakefulness, and cyproheptadine blocks those, but its other effects aren’t very pleasant. Have you tried diphenhydramine? Endotoxin from intestinal bacteria increases histamine and serotonin; poor digestion is probably the most common cause of insomnia. Avoiding starches is often helpful. Small amounts of some excipients in supplements, and allergens in some foods, can increase the nighttime absorption of endotoxin. The antimicrobial/antiinflammatory effects of cascara can improve sleep; an antibiotic such as tetracycline can reduce the intestinal inflammation

Other things that may be helpful , glycine, taurine, b6 vitamin, Valerian root.

 

[Sepulchrave]

Just search through this forum, you'll find plenty of info. I'll give you a couple of tips that I haven't found.

Clean your room and bed thoroughly since dust can cause histamine release.

If you decide to take diphenhydramine, use small doses (like 2.5 mg) and go from there.

Magnesium in excess can cause insomnia. Even if topically applied. Make sure you get all your minerals from food rather than supplements.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

Before you start supplements, start with the basics:



I believe most insomnia has a behavioural basis, ingrained habits, poor sleep hygiene.

I am a 15 year insomniac

 

[Xisca]

If you come from paleo, yes I would incriminate diet! If you like the basic principles of paleo, like me, then just go up in fruit and honey. Do not change fast, let your body adapt. Do not go up in sugars fast nor go down on veggies. For me, it killed my sleep!
Less is more and slow is fast, or else you can get better and crash afterward.
Eliminate quick only the obvious PUFA big intakes like vegetable oils, and slow down on nuts if you are a fan on them. Change to hemp seeds if you want to keep some nuts that are not too high on omega 6. Keep olives, macadamia and avocados. Absolutely keep olive oil and be slow in increasing coconut oil. I have my liver congested from inversing my ratio between olive and coconut oils.

If you are a person who has, or even had, a natural liking for work out and not keeping your energy inside, then you will really benefit from sugars/carbs.

If you stopped carbs for digestive reasons, you have to take care. Adding white rice can be safe. I use only the most anti-nutrient and lectin free beans by using only shelled ones, like red lentils or split peas. Here i talk about what is mainly avoided in paleo... Ho, think bananas!

You are right about cortisol issue, I also have. As a result, I got better with sugar, but then I needed to eat too often and the receptors of cortisol got maybe lazy... I know fruitarians, and they keep 3-4 meals per day, the last being veggies and not fruits. Whenever you have to eat often is a bad sign. Also, when I stopped proteins for dinner, I got stomach acid issues at night.

So you have to check out your own reactions and change little by little. Any change is stress.

 

[Xisca]

coconut oil, sugar and salt. How much of each do I take before bed?

You'd better not start with this right away, 1st modify your meals to get more carbs in general. Even coconut can be problematic if you do not build up slowly.
And there will never be any dosis other than check with your taste buds and stomach/instinctual likings. Build up and feel yourself.

 

[theLaw]

1. You're starving yourself, and probably need a re-feed (search the forum for more info)

2. You're waking up because your body has run out of fuel, even if you're not necessarily hungry

 

[raypeatclips]

Firstly there is no such thing as the "Ray Peat" diet. Have you tried making sure you are eating enough during the day? If I am low on calories I will absolutely wake up in the night hungry, and have difficulty falling asleep initially and getting back to sleep. Having something calorific before sleep makes it more likely for me to sleep 8 hours through the night. A home made ice cream with milk, cream, ice cream, sometimes chocolate, usually a high proportion of fat just before I sleep, seems to work better than anything.

 

[EndAllDisease]

Yeah good call on the elevated cortisol, and that's very telling that this only began when you cut out sugar from your diet.
I've been there and experienced the same thing.

This one can be made really simple by understanding what happens when the blood runs low on sugar.
What is occurring is the same metabolically as starvation. Cortisol, adrenaline, ACTH and other stress hormones increase to break down fat and muscle.
The amino acids are turned to sugar in the liver via gluconeogenesis and some of the fat is oxidized as well.

The pufa in the liberated fat stimulate more cortisol and stress hormones, which only makes the bad situation worse.
Ultimately, the cortisol and adrenaline and subsequent heart rate elevation prevent the cells of the body from relaxing enough to allow you to fall into deep, restful sleep.

 

[Wonderdog]

Thanks to everyone who responded, I feel like I have finally found a community of like minded people who can help. I will start reading the forums to learn more. Thanks again

 

[ilpmusic]

Thanks to everyone who responded, I feel like I have finally found a community of like minded people who can help. I will start reading the forums to learn more. Thanks again

This way of eating cured my 13 years of severe insomnia (and I was using prescription sleeping pills). I posted about it the thread" I have been medically cleared of Severe Insomnia..."

 

[Lydie Baillie]

"I think my insomnia started when i went on a zero sugar and low carb diet, a somewhat paleo like diet, a couple years ago.".

This is also my experience. I've been lacto-Paleo or transitioning that way for a decade or so. Basically, meat, vegetables, fruit. No salt, except on meat, no sugar and no pastas. Insomnia started a couple years ago after I eliminated potatoes.
Potatoes give me migraines.

I've researched alot, added magnesium, salt, raisins, vitamin D, calcium, melatonine ... Inconclusive results.
Then, I increased fruit consomption, eating sugary stuff, a big bowl of rice, oatmeal. Zero. I actually felt more hungry on top of insomnia.

More recently, I've had some success drinking a large glass of whole milk in the evening and I consistently get a full night's sound sleep after eating a whole can of Heinz beans in tomato sauce. Works like magic.
If I don't have beans, I get to sleep very late and wake in the middle of the night. Crazy.
My question is now, how long will I need to have Heinz beans every night ?
Am I building back my reserves or what is going on with that?

 

[rjsf]

I'm on the same boat. The low-carb diet was such a fad, all of my friends were doing it and eventually they convinced me to do it too because of the purported health benefits. One month into the diet I started having difficulty sleeping and it was getting worse so I stopped. That was a year and a half ago. Up to this day, I still have intermittent insomnia. Liver tests show elevated enzymes.

Since the beginning of this year I started taking 4 tbsp of gelatin with my evening tea before bed every night. It helps me get to sleep most nights, but I still get a sleepless night every few weeks. Despite that, I'm still grateful because it's the only thing that has helped me improve my sleep thus far.

I'm also wondering for how long I should be taking gelatin every night, and if over time it would improve my condition and get me back to normal.

 

[X3CyO]

Benadryl

 

[rjsf]

Benadryl

It works for me but it gives me a feeling of crawling bugs on my legs so I can't use it long term.

 

[EIRE24]

If you come from paleo, yes I would incriminate diet! If you like the basic principles of paleo, like me, then just go up in fruit and honey. Do not change fast, let your body adapt. Do not go up in sugars fast nor go down on veggies. For me, it killed my sleep!
Less is more and slow is fast, or else you can get better and crash afterward.
Eliminate quick only the obvious PUFA big intakes like vegetable oils, and slow down on nuts if you are a fan on them. Change to hemp seeds if you want to keep some nuts that are not too high on omega 6. Keep olives, macadamia and avocados. Absolutely keep olive oil and be slow in increasing coconut oil. I have my liver congested from inversing my ratio between olive and coconut oils.

If you are a person who has, or even had, a natural liking for work out and not keeping your energy inside, then you will really benefit from sugars/carbs.

If you stopped carbs for digestive reasons, you have to take care. Adding white rice can be safe. I use only the most anti-nutrient and lectin free beans by using only shelled ones, like red lentils or split peas. Here i talk about what is mainly avoided in paleo... Ho, think bananas!

You are right about cortisol issue, I also have. As a result, I got better with sugar, but then I needed to eat too often and the receptors of cortisol got maybe lazy... I know fruitarians, and they keep 3-4 meals per day, the last being veggies and not fruits. Whenever you have to eat often is a bad sign. Also, when I stopped proteins for dinner, I got stomach acid issues at night.

So you have to check out your own reactions and change little by little. Any change is stress.

How do you mean you got stomach acid issues?

 

[tara]

1. You're starving yourself, and probably need a re-feed (search the forum for more info)

2. You're waking up because your body has run out of fuel, even if you're not necessarily hungry

Seems likely to me too.

Wonderdog, have you had a go at recording roughly how much you've been eating, including carbohydrates and calories? (I assume you've been getting plenty of protein, if you've been doing a variant of 'paleo'.) Cronometer is one possible way to see approximations of nutrition in the food you are eating (but ignore their restrictive calorie recommendations).

Firstly there is no such thing as the "Ray Peat" diet. Have you tried making sure you are eating enough during the day? If I am low on calories I will absolutely wake up in the night hungry, and have difficulty falling asleep initially and getting back to sleep.

+1
I generally only get insomnia if I don't eat enough throughout the day. If you don't have enough fuel accessible, stress hormones come up at night to sustain vital blood sugar.

I'd suggest gradually increasing carbohydrate foods that agree with you, including good quantities of fruit, juice, roots and and veges that agree. Some highly refined sugar/HFCS etc is probably fine, but I would not recommend it as a major staple, since it's short on minerals etc.

Also, are you getting some sunshine on you regularly?

Sleeping with your mouth shut?

Are you sleeping warm enough?

There might be other contributors, but getting basic needs met comes first, certainly before resorting to drugs, in my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[Xisca]

How do you mean you got stomach acid issues?

By removing proteins at dinner, I was producing less acid and keeping my meal longer. Proteins digest quick.

So by having sugar and fat at dinner, I was basically having less acid, worse digestion, and I was waking up with oesophagus burn!
...Not good for insomnia!

Now I have had fish for dinner with butter, and in half an hour I go to bed. I will sure sleep! Protein and fats keep my blood sugar much much much more even!