I drink this before I study something. My mind becomes clearer.

[milk_lover]

I make a 500-ml mug of coffee with those ingredients:
1- 500-ml of whole milk or low-fat milk
2- Two table spoons of instant coffee
3- Four table spoons of cane white sugar
4- Two table spoons of unflavored gelatin
5- Half a teaspoon of cocoa powder
6- One table spoon of refined coconut oil (Louana)

I mix them all in one pan and stir them at low temperature and when they mix very well I raise the temperature up until the surface starts to bubble. I lit it sit in the mug for a minute and then drink it. My mind seems to understand faster after I drink it.

 

[tara]

I get temporarily sharper minded with a fraction of that much coffee. Withdrawal is not worth it for me, though. Glad it works for you.

 

[milk_lover]

I am sorry you get withdrawal from coffee. Can you elaborate on that? When I first started eating a peat-inspired diet eight months ago, I did not tolerate coffee very well. I get wired and shaky even though I added sugar. With time, I seem to tolerate it better. I think if you drink coffee and feel relaxed even sleepy, that's a sign it's good for you. Good luck.

 

[tara]

When I drink a little coffee I feel relaxed, and usually sleep longer and deeper than usual. I might get jittery if i drank a lot, but I've never do that. I am more likely to get a worse migraine the next day, or the one after. I think it is withdrawal effects throught the night. I speculate that it has the effect of depleting both T3 and T4, and possibly there may be serotonin rebound effects.

I'm not aiming to discourage anyone who finds coffee works well for them. But it doesn't seem to for everyone. I'm hoping my health will recover to the point where I can drink coffee regularly some time in the future - I've acquired a taste for it the last couple of years. I've been using a little of Haidut's solban regularly lately, and I think that may be having good effects - possibly because it gives a slower, more even caffeine absoption.

 

[milk_lover]

So if coffee is depleting T3 and T4, does that mean it's giving the thyroid gland a rest while functioning in the body similarly to thyroid hormones, thus protecting the thyroid tissues (from overproducing hormones maybe) like Ray suggested? I am still confused about the interaction between caffeine/coffee and thyroid.

 

[tara]

I have not seen that from Peat about protecting the thyroid from over-producing. Do you recall where you came across that?

My speculation is based on studies I think posted by Haidut indicating that caffeine can facilitate the conversion of T4 to T3 by the liver. So I imagine (but have not sought or seen studies to confirm) that the effect of that, for someone whose thyroid gland usually underproduces T4 and T3, would be to first convert t4 to t3 at a faster rate than usual, raising T3 levels and hence overall energy levels. But then after a while, the extra T3 would be used up, and there would be less T4 available to produce more T3 from (because it was initially used up faster). So after the initial burst, there might be less of both T3 and T4, resulting in lower energy levels than before (and whatever symptoms we are prone to in this state).

Natedawggh also posted some thoughts about serotonin-lowering tactics, and the importance of keeping them up regularly to avoid suddenly rebounding to higher serotonin. IIRC, he was talking primarily about amino acids etc, but also mentioned coffee in this context. A sudden surge of serotonin could be part of the problem too.

For some people, low blood sugar could add to the problem. But I don't think that has been the case mostly for me this last year and a half.

 

[tara]

Haidut has a thread suggesting some subbstances that can be used to increase metabolism instead of thyroid supplements. Caffeine is one of them. Some people seem to find it works well - so the hypothetical mechanism I speculate about above maybe doesn't always happen.

 

[milk_lover]

I put "over-producing" between parenthesis because it's my interpretation :) but I think Ray Peat mentioned in one of his articles that coffee drinkers have less thyroid diseases overall. So coffee could raise serotonin? Did Ray comment on that? Or is there a study? Maybe coffee beans could be irritating to some people's intestines, thus raising serotonin.

 

[jb116]

I drink what the OP has listed all the time as well, expect for the cocoa and coffee. Coffee doesn't agree with me so I don't ever really drink it any way.

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95481/ I put "over-producing" between parenthesis because it's my interpretation :) but I think Ray Peat mentioned in one of his articles that coffee drinkers have less thyroid diseases overall. So coffee could raise serotonin? Did Ray comment on that? Or is there a study? Maybe coffee beans could be irritating to some people's intestines, thus raising serotonin.

I don't think I've seen any suggestions that 'resting' the thyroid by having it produce less hormone is commonly helpful. My hypothesis for my own trouble with coffee would not be a situation of producing less thyroid hormone - what I described would be consistent with the thyroid gland continuing to produce the same amounts of T3 and T4 continuously (though perhaps not quite enough, in my case). I think the theory is that the liver converts T4 to T3 faster in the presence of caffeine. For people who have enough T4, but impaired conversion to the more active T3 by the liver, this could be really helpful.

Have you read Peat's article on coffee and caffeine?
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/caffeine.shtm
And his articles on thyroid?
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/th ... ties.shtml
(also mentioned in many other articles on his site)