I Don't Think I Can Recover, Suicidal| Mental Health Log

redsun

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Im not ignoring the other replies, just in a particularly rough spot right now and cant handle much more info . Ive been trying Niacin and im going to work my way up to hoffer doses.

Nothing to worry about man. In the end, we are posting here because we want to help you feel better. That's what its all about. Take your time and update when you are ready to. I have to ask just to be sure it is not timed-release and/or flush free right? You want regular flush niacin(its called niacin on a supplement bottle or nicotinic acid) that is not timed release.
 

postman

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I have validated this myself through data gathering and plots vs. temp and pulse and bodyweight. This is truth here as such. I don't do well on pure starch, nor do I do well on pure sugar, I do well with a little more sugar than starch, but it ends up that in the long run its something like 33% fructose 67% glucose so at least 50% sugar and maybe the rest starch (50% of carb intake I mean).
That's interesting, it's cool to have it backed up by data. Personally for me I do best on maybe 85% starch and 15% sugar, at the moment.
 

mrchibbs

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I think pastries are good if they're not baked with vegetable oils. In my experience the combination of starch + sugar is more anti-stress than either of those by themselves.

yeah French type pastries like croissants or chocolatines are typically made with white flour and loads of butter. Can't see anything wrong with that if you crave them.
 

Cirion

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That's interesting, it's cool to have it backed up by data. Personally for me I do best on maybe 85% starch and 15% sugar, at the moment.

85% starch or 85% glucose? (not the same since sugar is 50% glucose but starch is 100% glucose). 85% starch would mean 92.5% glucose 7.5% fructose, definitely not that many fructose grams. But maybe theres something to it, there';s a lot of posts lately suggesting too much fructose may be detrimental in high amounts.
 
OP
SuperStressed

SuperStressed

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Nothing to worry about man. In the end, we are posting here because we want to help you feel better. That's what its all about. Take your time and update when you are ready to. I have to ask just to be sure it is not timed-release and/or flush free right? You want regular flush niacin(its called niacin on a supplement bottle or nicotinic acid) that is not timed release.
Thanks man. Yes I had 50mg nicotonic acid laying around and im up to 250mg (5 pills) after a meal and still no effect at all (no flush either).
Its interesting because I remember from last time that 50mg on an empty stomach made me flush. Eating with food makes a big difference to that.

I ordered this for the bigger doses

solgar_niacin_500mg_vegicaps_100.jpg


it says nicotonic acid on the back.
 

mrchibbs

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eating purely based on cravings is my fall back when things get extremely intense - with no limits at all. What sometimes happens when I do that for weeks is my stress goes down a level. I think its partly because theres nothing to think about and analysis to trigger stress, anxiety and OCD. Im simply eating what I want and thats it and I get consistantly high calories. The trouble is that the lower stress level is still really bad and once I get to that slightly better place I get tempted to make other changed which just stresses me out and the pattern restarts. Im not going to get better eating Pastries though am I lol? the stuff I crave isnt nutritious so I do need to put some thought into things im eating, but the thought of this is so stressful. ******* nightmare.

As long as you find food alternatives that don't contain PUFAs or loads of grains, you can indulge all you want I think.
Finding a few of your staple 'emotional support' foods might be essential. Pastries are delicious, if they're made with butter or coconut oil.
I would also research simple dessert recipes. I remember making amazing gluten free brownies with coconut oil when I was sick and I was amazed how easy dessert recipes can be and you can make a ***t ton and just always have them handy. There's something about that chocolate-coconut oil-starch-sugar combination that will massively sooth stressful periods.

Personally, finding sweet oranges and drinking fresh sweet OJ regularly brightens up my mood like nothing else, it's so delicious!
 

redsun

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Thanks man. Yes I had 50mg nicotonic acid laying around and im up to 250mg (5 pills) after a meal and still no effect at all (no flush either).
Its interesting because I remember from last time that 50mg on an empty stomach made me flush. Eating with food makes a big difference to that.

I ordered this for the bigger doses

solgar_niacin_500mg_vegicaps_100.jpg


it says nicotonic acid on the back.

Yeh too low doses may not create flush and post-meal supplementation also reduces chance of flush because the niacin is absorbed more slowly in a meal, naturally. The higher doses will end up causing flush once you reach them.
 

mrchibbs

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Thanks man. Yes I had 50mg nicotonic acid laying around and im up to 250mg (5 pills) after a meal and still no effect at all (no flush either).
Its interesting because I remember from last time that 50mg on an empty stomach made me flush. Eating with food makes a big difference to that.

I ordered this for the bigger doses

it says nicotonic acid on the back.

It's really interesting that you're not flushing with such large doses of niacin.
You might really have a deep need for vitamin B3.

Abram Hoffer used to treat schizophrenia, anxiety, depression etc. very successfully with large doses of niacin.
He was from the orthomolecular school of medecine.

If you don't flush, I would try to get at least 3000 mg daily or as much as you can until you flush, or 1000mg with every meal that was the therapeutic dose Hoffer used.

I've attached a file you might like to read!

Keep it up buddy!
 

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  • Hoffer (2006) - Schizophrenia Its biochemistry, psychology and treatment.pdf
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redsun

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It's really interesting that you're not flushing with such large doses of niacin.
You might really have a deep need for vitamin B3.

Abram Hoffer used to treat schizophrenia, anxiety, depression etc. very successfully with large doses of niacin.
He was from the orthomolecular school of medecine.

If you don't flush, I would try to get at least 3000 mg daily or as much as you can until you flush, or 1000mg with every meal that was the therapeutic dose Hoffer used.

I've attached a file you might like to read!

Keep it up buddy!

Yeh usually everyone flushes at those doses, you think he has a very bad B3 dependency/deficiency that has worsened all this time? He has said he is building up the doses to Hoffer's recommendations, so we will wait and see until then.
 

lampofred

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Im not ignoring the other replies, just in a particularly rough spot right now and cant handle much more info . Ive been trying Niacin and im going to work my way up to hoffer doses.

How much time do you spend on the computer/phone? I think screens can raise cortisol. Do you feel better if you completely avoid screens and stimuli and do nothing but just lay in bed?
 

lampofred

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Yeh usually everyone flushes at those doses, you think he has a very bad B3 dependency/deficiency that has worsened all this time? He has said he is building up the doses to Hoffer's recommendations, so we will wait and see until then.

It might just be that he has low prostaglandins from all the cortisol exposure. Peat said the niacin flush is caused by serotonin/prostaglandin and cortisol inhibits prostaglandin formation.
 

charlie

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Im not ignoring the other replies, just in a particularly rough spot right now and cant handle much more info . Ive been trying Niacin and im going to work my way up to hoffer doses.
Hoping the best for you and also watching this with interest because I have been zeroing in on niacin and Hoffers work along with the other b vitamins.
If you don't flush, I would try to get at least 3000 mg daily or as much as you can until you flush, or 1000mg with every meal that was the therapeutic dose Hoffer used.
I have been watching the niacin forums and they suggest working up to those doses over time, not to start out at those doses.
Yeh usually everyone flushes at those doses, you think he has a very bad B3 dependency/deficiency that has worsened all this time? He has said he is building up the doses to Hoffer's recommendations, so we will wait and see until then.
I think many people are suffering from niacin and other b vitamin deficiencies. It will leave you in a complete stressed out state, not able to relax, just a dreadful bad feeling. For some that first dose of niacin can lift the whole world off their shoulders.
 

postman

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85% starch or 85% glucose? (not the same since sugar is 50% glucose but starch is 100% glucose). 85% starch would mean 92.5% glucose 7.5% fructose, definitely not that many fructose grams. But maybe theres something to it, there';s a lot of posts lately suggesting too much fructose may be detrimental in high amounts.
Second one. If I eat more sugar than what I have a hunger for I don't feel good at all.
 

redsun

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I think many people are suffering from niacin and other b vitamin deficiencies. It will leave you in a complete stressed out state, not able to relax, just a dreadful bad feeling. For some that first dose of niacin can lift the whole world off their shoulders.

I can confirm the incredible relaxation and chilled out feeling the first time. Is there a reason I only get the sunburning and severe reddening in certain areas of the body and not others? Usually all sun exposed areas, arms, neck area, I am assuming damage from the sun can cause more blood flow to those areas?
 

mrchibbs

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Yeh usually everyone flushes at those doses, you think he has a very bad B3 dependency/deficiency that has worsened all this time? He has said he is building up the doses to Hoffer's recommendations, so we will wait and see until then.

I suspect it might be the case. Not flushing at upwards of 500mg is a clear sign of a deep deficiency, or a dependancy according to Orthomolecular terminology. OP might need to sustain this dose long-term to be free of symptoms.

Vitamin B3 is fundamentally involved in making energy from glucose and since the brain needs so much energy, it's no wonder Hoffer used to see such radical improvements from mental symptoms with his 3x1000g dose. Of course I see no problem in working up to that point, I think the moment you flush means your tissues are saturated and you don't need more.

I personally dislike the flush feeling. And I know Ray has said that he thinks its safer to use Niacinamide instead of Niacin. Even Hoffer would use Niacinamide also, it's just as good, if not better I think, he would only mention that it didn't have the cholesterol-lowering effect of Niacin.
 

postman

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If you repeatedly take a dose that used to make you flush at first it will stop making you flush. You have to always increase the dose if you want to keep flushing, or, not take it everyday. The flush is a prostaglandin thing, I don't think it's healthy but it could be therapeutic. It can have an anxiolythic effect, when I took niacin it was very calming at first but that effect disappeared after a couple of days/weeks.
 

mrchibbs

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If you repeatedly take a dose that used to make you flush at first it will stop making you flush. You have to always increase the dose if you want to keep flushing, or, not take it everyday. The flush is a prostaglandin thing, I don't think it's healthy but it could be therapeutic. It can have an anxiolythic effect, when I took niacin it was very calming at first but that effect disappeared after a couple of days/weeks.

That was my experience too, but Niacinamide has been consistently soothing.
 

Collden

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eating purely based on cravings is my fall back when things get extremely intense - with no limits at all. What sometimes happens when I do that for weeks is my stress goes down a level. I think its partly because theres nothing to think about and analysis to trigger stress, anxiety and OCD. Im simply eating what I want and thats it and I get consistantly high calories. The trouble is that the lower stress level is still really bad and once I get to that slightly better place I get tempted to make other changed which just stresses me out and the pattern restarts. Im not going to get better eating Pastries though am I lol? the stuff I crave isnt nutritious so I do need to put some thought into things im eating, but the thought of this is so stressful. ******* nightmare.
You really should check out the work of Gwyneth Olwyn, eating based on cravings is the best you can do. Actually you are lucky to still have clear cravings to follow, many people are so thoroughly damaged by orthorexic neuroticisms that they don't even know what they actually want to eat anymore.

Your reptile brain knows infinitely better than your intellect what you truly need, having been fine-tuned through billions of years of evolution. There's nothing wrong with eating nothing but pastries if thats what you really want, they are high in energy, low in toxins and very easily digestible. I'd try to stop analyzing things as much as possible and just eat what you want for now.
 
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mrchibbs

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You really should check out the work of Gwyneth Olwyn, eating based on cravings is the best you can do. Actually you are lucky to still have clear cravings to follow, many people are so thoroughly damaged by orthorexic neuroticisms that they don't even know what they actually want to eat anymore.

Your reptile brain knows infinitely better than your intellect what you truly need, having been fine-tuned through billions of years of evolution. There's nothing wrong with eating nothing but pastries if thats what you truly want, they are high in energy, low in toxins and very easily digestible. I'd try to stop analyzing things as much as possible and just eat what you want for now.

Yeah, Ray has written a couple times that in the short-term, the PUFAs aren't as problematic, and getting the important nutrients and calories like vitamin A, protein, carbs etc at first is more important.
 

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