I Can't Sleep And My Physiatrist Wants Me On A SSRI

biggirlkisss

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I'm seeing a physiatrist because they are looking for me for placement for a living place. I can't sleep at all I'm up all night my group home took rasipan I'm able to sleep but they wont give it to me. I know that a maoi can increase dopimine which reduces serotonin. I want to give him something that proves that sssri's are dangerous like a study if anyone has something I can print out to help me get a maoi instead of rasipan that would be great.
 

Blossom

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You might be able to get the psychiatrist to compromise and give you a tricyclic antidepressant? I think doctors mostly avoid maoi drugs these days because of the food interactions. I was able to get a tricyclic years ago before I knew about Peat and just told the doctor that SSRI meds had never worked for me. I used Elavil at night and it does help with sleep. It will still effect serotonin though. If you're going to be required to take something to comply with doctors orders so you can have a place to live it might be a little bit better option. I think a couple people here on the forum have tried Remeron as well so that might be worth exploring as an another option. The tricyclic drugs are similar in structure to cyproheptadine and do have some redeeming anticholinergic properties at least. Just throwing a couple ideas out there for you to research and talk to your doc about if you'd like. I wish you the best biggirlkisss.
 

Blossom

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I get the impression she is being forced to take an antidepressant to qualify for housing assistance.
 

DaveFoster

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@Blossom Ah, I see. Well, there's always the toilet for those kind of drugs.

You're not going to prove anything to a psychiatrist. Maybe you could insist? Doctors do need to be attentive to patient needs.
 

Blossom

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If it's a group home they often insist on watching the person swallow the pills.
 

postman

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Tianeptine is approved in some countries. It is hard to get prescribed if it isn't approved. It wouldn't help with sleep, but I doubt any SSRI would help with sleep either.
 

tara

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I'm not particularly recommending them, but I've tried all these drugs for other reasons (neither depression nor sleep) and they have all tended to make me sleep more easily or longer even at quite small doses:
cyproheptadine (1mg enough to make me sleep more), diphenhydramine, amitriptaline (sp? I was prescribed 10 mg, told that antidepressenant dose was 75-150mg, slept soundly with 3mg), nortriptaline.
I would guess that any of these would probably be safer for most people than the 'SSRI's.

If you haven't already considered breathing, do you know if you sleep with your mouth open or shut? If open, you may get significant improvement by keeping it closed, which can be done with a chinstrap or light tape (just 1-2 cm wide strip down middle or to one side, not sealing your whole mouth). If this is an issue, changing it can potentially have other good effects too.

Are you getting a bit of regular sunlight and movement? That seems to make a difference to me too.

I guess you've read this article of Peat's on serotonin? Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.
I don't necessarily think it can be relied on to get through to your psychiatrist, but you could take a look at his long list of references at the end, and see if you can find something useful there?

I believe there may be studies showing increased risks of various things, including suicide, from SSRI's, but I don't have particular studies to point to.

Don't know if psychiatrists pay attention to Breggins - he's been onto the SSRIs for decades. Eg
Psychiatric Drug Facts with Dr. Peter Breggin - The Proven Dangers of Antidepressants

Good luck.
 

Blossom

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Just for clarification in the U.S. one of the trade names mirtazapine is Remeron and Elavil is the trade name for amitriptyline.
 

DavidGardner

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Trazodone....

Works for me. It's inexpensive, and it's an SARI, not an SSRI. That means it blocks the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, while simultaneously antagonizing serotonin receptor sites. I do perceive an increase in serotonin with it, but nothing like Prozac or 5-htp. No side effects in my experience.
 

nomoreketones

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If possible, find a new doctor. You shouldn't have to prove to a doctor that a medication is dangerous. The doctor should explain the risks and let you make the decision.
 
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Gray Ling

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I think you're asking for permission to dismiss your physiatrist(a tribe leader no less!). But you have other options.
Look at this topseller at Medicoherbs (Sorry if you don't find it elsewhere).
If you enjoy drinking tea then I would recommend you ask someone about the tea version (1% dried material in regular tea).
Fact is bigggirlskiss you can sip on some tea rather than pop those pills.
This plant loves people in my opinion. If I'd describe it's character I'd say it's like Squirtle.
images_2.jpg
 
OP
biggirlkisss

biggirlkisss

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the ssri seems to help with sleep and im more calm so i going to keep taking it.
 
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biggirlkisss

biggirlkisss

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ray takes about paxil having benefits and problems prehaps i'm also experiencing this with the ssri
 

Blossom

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Yeah, I'm not sure about the specific benefits and drawbacks to Paxil myself I just know that it's an SSRI. No one seems to completely understand how they work. If Paxil doesn't end up working out for you for some reason you could ask your doctor for Mirtazapine (Remeron). Meatbag emailed Peat about it.
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
I realize you were in a difficult situation so I'm really glad you are starting to sleep better and I hope you will continue to let us know how things are going for you.
 

DaveFoster

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Trazodone....

Works for me. It's inexpensive, and it's an SARI, not an SSRI. That means it blocks the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, while simultaneously antagonizing serotonin receptor sites. I do perceive an increase in serotonin with it, but nothing like Prozac or 5-htp. No side effects in my experience.
Trazodone works great for insomnia. Its
"dirty" metabolite meta-Chlorophenylpiperazine (mCPP) acts as a serotonin agonist, but its effects seem to be relatively marginal. The mCPP molecule likely contributes to nightmares people often experience while taking trazodone, and its effects likely increase as the trazodone dosage increases with higher dosages of trazodone having greater serotonergic effects in the central nervous system (CNS.)

Trazodone's also not a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA,) so it can be combined with amitriptyline (Elavil,) mirtazapine (Remeron,) tianeptine (Stablon) and other TCAs without a fear of any interference with the same enzymes (so overdose becomes less likely.)

Trazadone has been shown to be almost as effective as bupropion (Wellbutrin) in treating depression, and although bupropion lowers anxiety after the first two to three weeks of administration, it can dramatically increase anxiety during the first few weeks. For bupropion, using a minuscule starting dosage and then slowly titrating up over a couple weeks could theoretically minimize side effects within the acclimatization period, but trazodone acts as a sedative, so there's very little chance of it aggravating anxiety disorders.
 
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