Hypothyroidism In Relation To Digestion

[Maverick]

I have seen a lot of studies that show a correlation between hypothyrodism and maldigestion or indigestion. What do you guys think, how do you solve them both?

 

[redsun]

I have seen a lot of studies that show a correlation between hypothyrodism and maldigestion or indigestion. What do you guys think, how do you solve them both?

Hypothyroidism and hypochlorhydria(low stomach acid) are synonymous. Its not just a coincidence they are mentioned a lot together, hypo can directly cause indigestion(through low stomach acid). Low T3 leads to poor stomach acid secretion which leads to SIBO, indigestion, poor motility, etc...

 

[Andy316]

Is there a successful way to increase stomach acid for Hypothyroid people redsun?

Hypothyroidism and hypochlorhydria(low stomach acid) are synonymous. Its not just a coincidence they are mentioned a lot together, hypo can directly cause indigestion(through low stomach acid). Low T3 leads to poor stomach acid secretion which leads to SIBO, indigestion, poor motility, etc...

 

[Cirion]

Kate deering (a discipline of Ray Peat) I recall said something about how she used to prescribe HCL to her clients, because it did temporarily improve symptoms, but she said she no longer recommends that. I'm trying to recall what she said she recommends now to fix digestion long term, I have been seeking this quote because I'm also suffering digestion woes. It's clear though that she recommends Bone broth and gelatin for protein, just like I'm now finding out for myself, and drastically reducing muscle meat intake. Supplementing HCL I can absolutely see how it can help, but it's a Band-Aid. Somehow you need to make your body generate its own HCL again, otherwise you're stuck on supplementing HCL for life.

 

[Andy316]

Same boat Cirion, frustrating. Im just tired of all these restrictions to cure myself...cutting so many foods out, Nofap, no mobile phones..it would have been better if I just leave earthly matters and become a monk in a buddhist monastery.

Kate deering (a discipline of Ray Peat) I recall said something about how she used to prescribe HCL to her clients, because it did temporarily improve symptoms, but she said she no longer recommends that. I'm trying to recall what she said she recommends now to fix digestion long term, I have been seeking this quote because I'm also suffering digestion woes. It's clear though that she recommends Bone broth and gelatin for protein, just like I'm now finding out for myself, and drastically reducing muscle meat intake.

 

[redsun]

Is there a successful way to increase stomach acid for Hypothyroid people redsun?

Yes, the general recommended approach by the veteran members is B-complex supplementation with the required cofactors to make them work. Magnesium, manganese, etc. Its important to eat a nutrient dense diet high in all micronutrients but especially minerals which will work with the B-complex to improve digestion as well as stomach acid.

SIBO, Gut Motility, Constipation. What Is Really Going On? I Will Tell You

SIBO, GERD, LPR, IBS, & Colitis Could Be Vitamin B3 Deficiency - "Niacin Treats Digestive Problems"

Niacin likely also improves stomach acid secretion indirectly because it raises histamine levels:

"Even a dose of 100mg niacinamide decreases betaine by ∼15% and significantly increases serotonin by ∼65% and histamine by ∼27%. (22)" -Hans Amato

7 amazing benefits of Niacinamide. #4 is boosting brain capacity

The study he referenced:

Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels. - PubMed - NCBI

I have yet to try this myself, but I have seen some reviews of those taking L-histidine(histamine precursor) and it helped their digestion a lot. I will be attempting it myself in a few days.

 

[Cirion]

Those are great threads and lots of good info. However personally thus far I have been supplementing B vitamins virtually every day to seemingly no effect personally, sadly. Either I am severely deficient (certainly possible) or I'm just effed lol. Not to scare the guy off, I do think it's worth trying because the science does seem to be there. Personally, I'm the poster child for incurable hypothyroid around these parts, so feel free to ignore me LOL.

 

[redsun]

Those are great threads and lots of good info. However personally thus far I have been supplementing B vitamins virtually every day to seemingly no effect personally, sadly. Either I am severely deficient (certainly possible) or I'm just effed lol. Not to scare the guy off, I do think it's worth trying because the science does seem to be there. Personally, I'm the poster child for incurable hypothyroid around these parts, so feel free to ignore me LOL.

Apparently niacin deficiency can take months to correct(I think charlie mentions that in one of the threads). After all, you don't become B3 deficient in a week. It takes months of either suboptimal intake and/or increased depletion of niacin to lead to such a predicament. And of course cofactors, cofactors, cofactors.

 

[Cirion]

Apparently niacin deficiency can take months to correct(I think charlie mentions that in one of the threads). After all, you don't become B3 deficient in a week. It takes months of either suboptimal intake and/or increased depletion of niacin to lead to such a predicament. And of course cofactors, cofactors, cofactors.

So this is my problem in the health world. We are always talking time frame of weeks, months, even years. How does one know they are on the right track? Even if let's say 3 months down the road I start to feel better. Can I honestly backtrack it to a single factor like B-vitamins? This is not necessarily to complain (There is that too =P) but just an honest question/observation. And then, even if you know you have a B3 deficiency (Just an example), how do you know what dosage to get? How do you know you're getting too little, too much? There are literally so many parameters you can spend your whole life trying to fix things and not get them fixed.

Without extensive actual testing/data, it seems like many strategies here are just a somewhat random dart throw, hoping that one will hit the board. We definitely see some people get "Lucky" and throw the darts just right, while others like me can never hit the board lol. Some things are indeed noticeable right away via bodytemp/pulse etc. I guess at the end of the day, that's about all you can do as far as every-day measurements go. Just essentially go about things as I have been (Improving temp/pulses/body weight) and just make sure I'm aware of what factors have changed along the way, and from my plots deduce which parameters caused the effects.

 

[redsun]

So this is my problem in the health world. We are always talking time frame of weeks, months, even years. How does one know they are on the right track? Even if let's say 3 months down the road I start to feel better. Can I honestly backtrack it to a single factor like B-vitamins? This is not necessarily to complain (There is that too =P) but just an honest question/observation.

Without extensive actual testing/data, it seems like many strategies here are just a somewhat random dart throw, hoping that one will hit the board. We definitely see some people get "Lucky" and throw the darts just right, while others like me can never hit the board lol. Some things are indeed noticeable right away via bodytemp/pulse etc. I guess at the end of the day, that's about all you can do as far as every-day measurements go. Just essentially go about things as I have been (Improving temp/pulses/body weight) and just make sure I'm aware of what factors have changed along the way, and from my plots deduce which parameters caused the effects.

I mean months is the time table but I don't know if it takes 3 months to see improvement, or rather to completely eliminate the deficiency, which is not the same as saying how quickly does it take to start seeing increased stomach acid(and therefore reduced GI issues) from 500mg niacinamide per meal. Have you ever done 500mg B3 per meal? B3 seems to directly play a role in raising H-word levels in the blood, and seeing how H-word is needed for gastric acid secretions... it is no longer surprising to me why niacin is recommended for hypochlorydia. But we don't talk about H here. It's a swear word now

"Dr. Prousky suggests that patients who suffer the symptoms of low stomach acid production can markedly improve their condition by supplementing with 200-500 mg of niacinamide with every meal. For more severe cases betaine hydrochloride and 500-1000 mg of niacin per meal may be required. This regimen may also help to eradicate a Helicobacter pylori infection."

SIBO, GERD, LPR, IBS, & Colitis Could Be Vitamin B3 Deficiency - "Niacin Treats Digestive Problems"

 

[Cirion]

1000mg niacin wow that's a lot. Lol. That's 200 drops of Energin

 

[redsun]

1000mg niacin wow that's a lot. Lol. That's 200 drops of Energin

What? No, 100mg niacinamide was in the study. Thought I made a typo... Unless you're talking about the quote which I see now, then yeh that is a lot and is used for more extreme cases.

 

[BigChad]

Hypothyroidism and hypochlorhydria(low stomach acid) are synonymous. Its not just a coincidence they are mentioned a lot together, hypo can directly cause indigestion(through low stomach acid). Low T3 leads to poor stomach acid secretion which leads to SIBO, indigestion, poor motility, etc...

@Cirion But how do you resolve the cause of the low stomach acid and the cause of the hypothyroidism itself? there must be a way to resolve this without needing to consume thyroid gland or take supplements? there's a lot of supplements that can worsen it as well, overdoing it on b vitamins, maybe c, and the minerals and iodine can cause hypothyroidism as well...

 

[redsun]

@Cirion But how do you resolve the cause of the low stomach acid and the cause of the hypothyroidism itself? there must be a way to resolve this without needing to consume thyroid gland or take supplements? there's a lot of supplements that can worsen it as well, overdoing it on b vitamins, maybe c, and the minerals and iodine can cause hypothyroidism as well...

Resolving hypo "naturally" usually entails treating nutrition deficiencies and liver dysfunction among other things. Inadequate niacin in the body can cause hypochlorydia as well as other Bs and some minerals playing a role in stomach acid. I don't know by how much, but likely the effects of niacin on increasing histamine levels is one of the ways it helps with stomach acid. Parietal cells use acetylcholine, gastrin, PGE2(Prostaglandin E2), and histamine to secrete acid.

This is a nice graphic that lists a lot of the main factors in thyroid function but is not exhaustive:

There is of course a way, but to put it into one post is impossible. The gist is providing adequate proteins, fats, and carbohydrates in the form of foods that do not disrupt the gut and that are also nutrient dense while minimizing stress, inflammation, and treating dysfunction in the organs of the body. Often times nutritional supplements(like niacin and others Bs, minerals) are required to help recover the metabolism at a speedier pace.

 

[Andy316]

+1000 for the question, I have been thinking about the same for the past year. I have found no permanent solution apart from "cutting" trigger foods (Calcium, Copper, High VitA, Fibre, fructose, Tryptophan) but the underlying problem still remains (TSH was 4.7 a year ago now 3.1 but very hard to get below 1 and have very low stomach acid). Synthetic supplements caused me more harm than good. I use sea salt (for increasing stomach acid during protein meals), castor oil sparingly (to ease my bowels), amla (indian gooseberry for VitC) and sunlight as my goto natural supplements now. I have just recently started exercising (45 mins steady state cardio and 15mins light weights) as my waistline has balooned to 42" while the rest of me looks pretty lean.

@Cirion But how do you resolve the cause of the low stomach acid and the cause of the hypothyroidism itself? there must be a way to resolve this without needing to consume thyroid gland or take supplements? there's a lot of supplements that can worsen it as well, overdoing it on b vitamins, maybe c, and the minerals and iodine can cause hypothyroidism as well...

 

[Maverick]

Still having bad digestion, has anybody who have had bad digestion recovered? What regimen did you follow?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@redsun Taking a B complex did absolutely nothing to my digestion.

 

[redsun]

@redsun Taking a B complex did absolutely nothing to my digestion.

Your not the first one that did not fix digestion with just Bs. A lot of things are related when optimizing stomach acid and digestive enzymes. As my post here showed you have neurotransmitters involved, and optimal T3 levels. Then there's also hydration and adequate electrolytes (chloride being the big one but Na, K, etc are also needed).

Probably the hardest thing to do (and the one that will fix most things) is raising T3 levels because there are many reasons for low T3. Strong thyroid will help retain minerals, it also raises histamine and CO2 levels (which are used in carbonic anhydrase enzyme in the stomach to secrete H+ ions). Also the fact that carbonic anhydrase is dependent on zinc (and of course water, so dehydration would mess with this). That's why zinc deficiency can cause digestive problems.

I will say in my experience digestion from a particular meal goes a lot better when the meal naturally has a lot of salt in the foods or I eat salty things with it(pickles).

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@redsun I reckon my Sodium intake has been quite low. Around 2g daily, possibly more if I account the salty cheeses. I remember I did not favor heavy salted foods in my childhood.
Still, much less Sodium than I was intaking as a Carnivore.
Also, my thyroid could definitely benefit from a boost. But then again, I am young, fit, have no idea why my throid is not in peak state.

Can fixing SIBO boost / unleash the thyroid? It'd be fantastic.

 

[redsun]

@redsun I reckon my Sodium intake has been quite low. Around 2g daily, possibly more if I account the salty cheeses. I remember I did not favor heavy salted foods in my childhood.
Still, much less Sodium than I was intaking as a Carnivore.
Also, my thyroid could definitely benefit from a boost. But then again, I am young, fit, have no idea why my throid is not in peak state.

Can fixing SIBO boost / unleash the thyroid? It'd be fantastic.

SIBO gets fixed when T3 levels and digestion gets fixed. People (especially evident here) take all kinds of things to try to sterilize the gut like meds, herbs, etc... Never permanent because it doesnt fix the underlying issue. Strong acids and secretions made by the body are supposed to sterilize the gut.

Yeh its low and if you have issues with retaining sodium that's not doing you any favor. Usually pickles go well with most meals and provide quite a bit of salt. Extra salt will improve digestion probably, wont fix it 100%.


Exhaustive list of ***t that can cause T3 to decrease:
Low T3 / Euthyroid Sick Syndrome Causes and Treatment - SelfHack