Hyperammonemia!

[Captain_Coconut]

Protein restriction should help improve kidney function, and autophagy which is thought to help lower ammonia levels. Switching to dairy / vegetable proteins vs meat for a while could be beneficial as well. I went through a period where eating eggs or protein heavy meals in the morning would knock me out. I started to have a very low protein breakfast, essentially restricting protein every day for about 14 hours... after a month or two of this I felt a lot better. Now I can eat eggs for breakfast and feel fine.

Protein restriction in hepatic encephalopathy is appropriate for selected patients: a point of view

 

[magnesiumania]

Nutritional yeast is not the same. It dont have much amino acids except smaaall amounts of tryptophan (i dont think its significant 28mg in 1+1/2 tablespoon)
. About estrogen is that specific to BY or in both?

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Prostate Cancer



Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging



Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease

@tankasnowgod @magnesiumania

I really don't get the rationale for restricting protein, or supplementing it.

For example:



Multiple sclerosis, protein, fats, and progesterone

Seems restricting normal balanced food protein would aggravate problems.

Supplementing protein amino acids always seems to make problems as Peat has stated.

Lithium and antibiotics would be better interventions.

Lithium is awesome. I am on 20mg via lithium chloride a day now, and feel great when I take it. Much better than the lithium aspartate I was taking before which for whatever reason gave me a tired feeling if I took it daily. Lithium is another autophagy enabler IIRC.

 

[kyle]

Nutritional yeast is not the same. It dont have much amino acids except smaaall amounts of tryptophan (i dont think its significant 28mg in 1+1/2 tablespoon)
. About estrogen is that specific to BY or in both?

The brand I've used was Solgar brewer's yeast. Not sure about the difference TBH.

 

[magnesiumania]

Protein restriction should help improve kidney function, and autophagy which is thought to help lower ammonia levels. Switching to dairy / vegetable proteins vs meat for a while could be beneficial as well. I went through a period where eating eggs or protein heavy meals in the morning would knock me out. I started to have a very low protein breakfast, essentially restricting protein every day for about 14 hours... after a month or two of this I felt a lot better. Now I can eat eggs for breakfast and feel fine.

Protein restriction in hepatic encephalopathy is appropriate for selected patients: a point of view

Very interesting, thanks. I go with how i feel and right now potatoes tasted good. Yesterday i had fish and i made me feel awful. How about taurine? I take magnesium taurate...its kind of an amino acid but not really. So im not sure it contributes significantly to ammonia. I do think it helps balance my electrolytes, which glycine probably messed up.

 

[magnesiumania]

Lithium is awesome. I am on 20mg via lithium chloride a day now, and feel great when I take it. Much better than the lithium aspartate I was taking before which for whatever reason gave me a tired feeling if I took it daily. Lithium is another autophagy enabler IIRC.

I did have 5mg lithium orotate a week ago and i felt very good. But next day it did not work, probably my thyroid dont supply enough energy. It balances all neurotransmitters including glycine and glutamate so obviously it was the right thing to do at that moment. But i dont want to take any lithium at the moment as my thyroid is impaired.

 

[magnesiumania]

Next up. Fats!

Fats provide energy, is important for neuronal signaling and also make myelin. A side effect of hyperammonemia is demyelination. So would fats as an energy source and substance for new myelin be a good idea or does it potentiate any of my harmful processes? By the way, thank you all so much for your responses. Im in a tricky situation and i dont really understand how i can even formulate a sentence after my experience. Hopefully ill understand now that i have more material that satisfy as explaination for whats going on.

 

[magnesiumania]

Muscle wasting from lack of protein can raise ammonia (acidosis) - where ammonia is actually trying to protect and keep you alive.

But yes, it is dangerous when the body can't restore normal function!

The body will liberate amino acids from muscle tissue so even if you don't eat proteins and not in an ideal way either:





I know people on the forums have promoted different amino acid supps - in my experience with them, they've all been negative.

Peat doesn't have anything positive WRT amino acid supps, correct me I'm wrong if he said something good about ornithine or something. I don't have much knowledge about it specifically.



As for the edema issue, balanced protein from broth for example would be beneficial alongside sodium. Glycine/proline are safe for this. I know some people have supp'd isolated forms but I think powdered gelatin is better for the balanced quantities and Peat has also said isn't that harmful if you can't make broth.

I'd pick out the quotes but the entire article is pertinent here:

Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

As hyperammonia stimulates NMDA activity and excitotoxicity i imagine im an exception. Glycine can also be excitatory AND increase the dangers of glutamate. But i feel this is a delicate topic where quantity matters a lot.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Very interesting, thanks. I go with how i feel and right now potatoes tasted good. Yesterday i had fish and i made me feel awful. How about taurine? I take magnesium taurate...its kind of an amino acid but not really. So im not sure it contributes significantly to ammonia. I do think it helps balance my electrolytes, which glycine probably messed up.

Taurine may help. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214750016300336

Taurine in hepatic encephalopathy. - PubMed - NCBI

Ammonia-induced mitochondrial dysfunction and energy metabolism disturbances in isolated brain and liver mitochondria, and the effect of taurine administration: relevance to hepatic encephalopathy treatment

 

[magnesiumania]

Thank you so much. Taurine has always seemed to help me and ive used it for about 7-8 months, every day. Im not really sure about dosage tho.

So much valuable info in that last article.

"It has been reported that taurine effectively mitigated astrocyte swelling in an in vitro system"

 

[olive]

Just a warning since aspirin is so prevelant on this forum; it messes with the urea cycle and can lead to high ammonia.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Thank you so much. Taurine has always seemed to help me and ive used it for about 7-8 months, every day. Im not really sure about dosage tho.

So much valuable info in that last article.

"It has been reported that taurine effectively mitigated astrocyte swelling in an in vitro system"

Yeah good stuff. Reading that has convinced me to up my dose to 4 grams a day.

 

[magnesiumania]

Thanks Olive, ive never used aspirin and came across that detail in my research last night.

 

[magnesiumania]

So... there is many nutrient that are part of my daily regimen. Tell me if you KNOW any of this will infere with elimination of ammonia or ammonium, enhance its absorption into the blood, or in anyway make my sitaution worse.

Bee pollen (i take that for vit B6 and copper), it has SOME amino acids.
Gotu kola, seem to stabilize me in the past but now it doesent do ***t..
Vitamin C, i do no more than 400mg of whole food vit C. I suppose its a good think as oxidative damage is part of this.
Rice bran
Electrolytes (potassium gluconate, sodium as pink salt, any reason to restrict on calsium?)
Boron 3mg (i use it as a cofactor to magnesium)

And recently ive started the raw carrot salad after finding this forum, but i use refined cocnut oil. I know there are many kinds and some have very toxic chemicals, this one however i think only lack some of the good stuff but still has some antibacterial properties, brand name Green Choice)

 

[magnesiumania]

Also I think you might be on the right track @magnesiumania.

But with any issue, there's no substitute for a simple balanced diet.

Any issue has very specific qualities that may require very specific treatment. But as im not sure whats going on entrily, i stick with a well balanced diet.

 

[magnesiumania]

True, all these substances have been discussed on the forum before, and they have been shown to lower ammonia. Also, the amino acid Ornithine can also help. It's usually the limiting factor in the Urea cycle.

If you suspect brain edema, you may also want to look into supplemental Urea. Edema, and specifically brain edema, is one of the conditions mentioned on the KMUD broadcast where Ray Peat was talking about theraputic uses of Urea.

Any dosage recommendations or potential side effects using Ornithine. Not sure where i can get Urea around here....

 

[tankasnowgod]

Any dosage recommendations or potential side effects using Ornithine. Not sure where i can get Urea around here....

I just got some Ornithine, and am using 2 grams, 1 in the am, 1 in the evening. In doses of 6-10 grams a day, it has been known to cause nausea. Otherwise, don't think there are any other side effects to be concerned with. As a bonus, it should increase Urea as it lowers ammonia.

Also, if you ever have questions on any substance (but especially substances discussed on this forum), Dan Wich's site Toxinless is a great resource- Directory of foods and supplements without questionable additives - Toxinless

 

[magnesiumania]

I just got some Ornithine, and am using 2 grams, 1 in the am, 1 in the evening. In doses of 6-10 grams a day, it has been known to cause nausea. Otherwise, don't think there are any other side effects to be concerned with. As a bonus, it should increase Urea as it lowers ammonia.

Also, if you ever have questions on any substance (but especially substances discussed on this forum), Dan Wich's site Toxinless is a great resource- Directory of foods and supplements without questionable additives - Toxinless

Ok, thanks. But its not like lysine is considered toxic either but it triggered delirium and excitoxicity.

Something specific comes to mind. If you supply ornithine and you lack the enzyme to convert it further in the cycle, doesent it cause trouble somhow?

 

[Astolfo]

Did you take any blood ammonia test? I was also suspecting about hyperammonia because of my serious cognitive impairment and parkinson’s like symptoms.

But however, my blood ammonia level came as 34 umol/L (15-60). I wonder if this is a prove that my problem is not hyperammonia.

 

[magnesiumania]

Did you take any blood ammonia test? I was also suspecting about hyperammonia because of my serious cognitive impairment and parkinson’s like symptoms.

But however, my blood ammonia level came as 34 umol/L (15-60). I wonder if this is a prove that my problem is not hyperammonia.

Well good question cause im as dumb as the doctors. To me it makes perfect sense to just make a simple blood test to reveal blood ammonia levels but no he did a test on my liver........Cause he was convied every ammonia problem is due to dysfunctional liver. Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure i found a study where the patients liver was fine but still he had high ammonia. The enzymes in the Urea Cycle is not part of my test-resault....What a mess...