Hungry Yet Gaining Weight

[Kelj]

You said to trust your body and ignore any rules related to eating. Do you mean in the context of real food? If I crave donuts, it's not donuts I should eat, but something else that's not deep fried in pufa oil, but has the same macro split/food composition that satisfies that craving? Or should I just happily eat donuts and ignore the pufa, gluten etc?

So literally eat whatever I crave, or eat whatever I crave, but choose healthier alternatives?

Being formerly orthorexic, I had a lot of nervousness to overcome where food ingredients were concerned. I was especially concerned about PUFA and considered it a victory when I stopped reading labels for it. However, my experience with listening to my body keeps reinforcing the science of Ray's research. I have heard the disordered eating recovery stories of many people, and those who have truly ended the restrictive behavior and achieved complete health have all eaten "junk" food to do it when their bodies asked for it. I have stopped calling that food "junk" since I discovered how therapeutic it can be.
The processed foods I have eaten during my recovery include: Snickers, Oreos, any kind of icecream and icecream bars, Entenmann's donuts, French crullers, apple pastries, potato chips (fried in various oils) and I have drunk every kind of soda. I think it is insane to call pizza and French fries "junk", so I don't include them here, though I ate plenty of them. Let me make it clear, I ate these things when my body wanted them, and I achieved healing, followed by complete wellness and slimness doing it.
Nevertheless, I think as my body became more well, the desire shifted away from these foods. I still eat them whenever they seem delicious to me, but I think the body always regulates the various nutrients in your diet by increasing your desire for one food or another and shutting off your desire for others. I never make a rule anymore about what I will and will not eat. At the moment, only homemade cookies seem delicious to me and lemonade instead of Pepsi (sometimes with club soda), and homemade cake. At one time, I didn't eat many vegetables except onion, garlic, tomatoes and potatoes. Then, I suddenly wanted raw vegetables and pickles. These experiences have taught me that the body truly is driving the wellness process. When I apply rules to override that process I harm myself. I think the recent shift from store-bought foods to homemade is my body saying I've had enough PUFA, that being the main difference between store-bought and homemade. If my body asks for anything like that in the future, I will simply have it. The processed foods are calorie dense and therefore, therapeutic when it is calories you need to recover. And everybody needs calories to recover. Calorie restriction is the driver behind nutrient deficiency, food sensitivities, and chronic illness. I used to be allergic to dairy and couldn't eat gluten, but now I do every day. These things can be accomplished by following the body's desire for food all of the time.

 

[Kelj]

Yes, it doesn't really matter what I eat, the resulting discomfort or pain is almost the same. There are some differences in symptoms depending on the food, but overall I always feel bad. Thanks anyway.

"Gastroparesis is a life-saving maneuver on the part of the gastrointestinal system to attempt to maximize accessibility of nutrients when a person is starving. Gastroparesis is delayed emptying of the contents of the stomach into the small intestine. Pulverizing and disintegrating the food longer in the stomach increases the chance that more nutrients can be absorbed through the gut lining of the small intestine. For those with eating disorders, gastroparesis can essentially double the time during which food remains in the stomach. In fact motility throughout the entire gastrointestinal tract is slowed to maximize nutrient absorption. 9 Problematically, it makes the person feel very full. For most patients gastroparesis resolves with continued re-feeding in a matter of weeks. Feeding in smaller doses on a more constant basis, using a heating pad (or ice packs if that feels better) around the abdomen, and consuming ultra-processed, calorie-dense, and easily digestible foods can all help to resolve the slowed motility. 10"
Phases of Recovery From An Eating Disorder Part 5

 

[opson123]

Thanks.

How should the messed up hunger signals be handled? I can always tell that my body needs energy, but I have zero appetite and zero clue what my body wants.

 

[sweetpeat]

My problem is that no matter what I eat, I feel bad and regret eating it. So it's a choice between feeling really bad and a bit less bad.

Everything just sits in my stomach for hours. It feels like it takes more energy to digest and move the food forward than what I get out of it. It's also really difficult to eat much when what you ate for breakfast is still sitting in your upper gut 4-6 hours later. If you eat more, it just keeps building up and eventually you're so full you can't breathe, because you can't expand your diaphragm.

I guess calorie density is one of the reasons milk chocolate works a bit better for me. Lots of calories and low volume. Boiled starches just aren't dense enough. Even baked starches aren't dense enough.

Have you tried digestive enzymes or HCl (hydrochloric acid) capsules? When a person's metabolism is slow, digestion is slow too. I have used these to help improve digestion while working on increasing calories and metabolism.

 

[opson123]

Have you tried digestive enzymes or HCl (hydrochloric acid) capsules? When a person's metabolism is slow, digestion is slow too. I have used these to help improve digestion while working on increasing calories and metabolism.

Yes. Never noticed any benefits. I always wondered why I never even felt any burn from the hcl capsules. I worked up to 15x 650mg capsules and took them for a while, but never felt anything. When my bottle was running out I took one last 25g dose, but still nothing. No burn. All I felt was a bit more bloated.

 

[Kelj]

Like ipeat, who started this thread, I was paleo, keto, and an intermittent faster before I started researching Dr. Peat's findings. My appetite was totally gone, too, and there were very few foods that made me feel well. Doctor Peat's research on sugar was invaluable. It helped me conquer the phobia of sugar that I'd been nurturing since I was a teenager.
So, when I had no appetite, but knew I had to eat something, I kept in mind that digesting food takes energy. The most easily- converted-to-glucose foods are liquid sugars. Little energy is required to turn them into energy. Peat's milk and orange juice recommendations fell into step with my requirements. I don't like drinking milk straight, so I made Orange Julius. A blend of equal milk and orange juice with sugar and vanilla extract to flavor ( in case you're not familiar). But. It doesn't have to be orange juice, it could be any juice you like. Think about how sheep, cows, deer live. Can you picture them doing anything but eating? Rarely. We have many other interests in life, hopefully, but we must realize how normal it is to eat something more often than we do. So, I started with regular drinks of milk and juice, then to be sure I had all the nutrients, eggs prepared however I liked. This began to give me more energy for repairs and digestion. I would allow myself any processed food I thought I might like, the more "highly palatable", the better. It took a while for a recognizable feeling of hunger to appear, but the thought of foods I felt like eating began to appear sooner than that. That is really the signal to go get some food. It will happen, even if it feels a little like work, at first.

 

[opson123]

Did you sip the julius whenever you had a thought of food or just prepared a new one and chugged it down?

And during your recovery phase, did you do any exercise? Walks or light gyms sessions or bodyweight exercises or whatever floats one's boat.

 

[Vinny]

Like ipeat, who started this thread, I was paleo, keto, and an intermittent faster before I started researching Dr. Peat's findings. My appetite was totally gone, too, and there were very few foods that made me feel well. Doctor Peat's research on sugar was invaluable. It helped me conquer the phobia of sugar that I'd been nurturing since I was a teenager.
So, when I had no appetite, but knew I had to eat something, I kept in mind that digesting food takes energy. The most easily- converted-to-glucose foods are liquid sugars. Little energy is required to turn them into energy. Peat's milk and orange juice recommendations fell into step with my requirements. I don't like drinking milk straight, so I made Orange Julius. A blend of equal milk and orange juice with sugar and vanilla extract to flavor ( in case you're not familiar). But. It doesn't have to be orange juice, it could be any juice you like. Think about how sheep, cows, deer live. Can you picture them doing anything but eating? Rarely. We have many other interests in life, hopefully, but we must realize how normal it is to eat something more often than we do. So, I started with regular drinks of milk and juice, then to be sure I had all the nutrients, eggs prepared however I liked. This began to give me more energy for repairs and digestion. I would allow myself any processed food I thought I might like, the more "highly palatable", the better. It took a while for a recognizable feeling of hunger to appear, but the thought of foods I felt like eating began to appear sooner than that. That is really the signal to go get some food. It will happen, even if it feels a little like work, at first.

Kelj,

What u share in ur posts is absolutely mind blowing. It sounds very reasonable too.
I wonder, however, about these MORBIDLY OBESED people we can see everywhere in the world now. Haven,t they beem eating WITHOUT restrictions and for years? How come they never reach the point when the body gets repaired and starts to burn the fat? They only tend to get worse. How is this possible?

 

[Cirion]

Kelj,

What u share in ur posts is absolutely mind blowing. It sounds very reasonable too.
I wonder, however, about these MORBIDLY OBESED people we can see everywhere in the world now. Haven,t they beem eating WITHOUT restrictions and for years? How come they never reach the point when the body gets repaired and starts to burn the fat? They only tend to get worse. How is this possible?

I wonder this too. The only thing I can figure myself is like I say, I think most peoples' eating instincts are horribly broken. I know mine probably is, which is why I cannot rely upon it. The whole "eat without restrictions" style of eating sounds a lot like Matt Stone, but unfortunately most people who follow Matt stone just get fat. Absolutely, if you can recover your proper innate instincts I'd agree that's definitely ideal. But we must also remember that diet is only a part of the picture. I don't think it's possible to recover while living a high stress high octane life no matter how perfect your diet is, other factors must be addressed as well. On the other hand, eating freely is much more likely to succeed when the rest of your life is very low stress. We see that a lot with people who go on vacation and find they feel great even just eating whatever they feel like. Another poster here had a compromise - what he did was he did not want to give up pizza, bread, donuts etc... but he also didn't want to eat bad quality food - so he made his own. There are things you can do. Such as use unbleached flour (It turns out, most people are NOT gluten intolerant, they are intolerant to the horrible bleached flour that is used!) But the king Arthur brand apparently is safe. I bought some, but I haven't used it yet since I am not good at baking LOL but will try eventually.

 

[LUH 3417]

I wonder this too. The only thing I can figure myself is like I say, I think most peoples' eating instincts are horribly broken. I know mine probably is, which is why I cannot rely upon it. The whole "eat without restrictions" style of eating sounds a lot like Matt Stone, but unfortunately most people who follow Matt stone just get fat. Absolutely, if you can recover your proper innate instincts I'd agree that's definitely ideal. But we must also remember that diet is only a part of the picture. I don't think it's possible to recover while living a high stress high octane life no matter how perfect your diet is, other factors must be addressed as well. On the other hand, eating freely is much more likely to succeed when the rest of your life is very low stress. We see that a lot with people who go on vacation and find they feel great even just eating whatever they feel like. Another poster here had a compromise - what he did was he did not want to give up pizza, bread, donuts etc... but he also didn't want to eat bad quality food - so he made his own. There are things you can do. Such as use unbleached flour (It turns out, most people are NOT gluten intolerant, they are intolerant to the horrible bleached flour that is used!) But the king Arthur brand apparently is safe. I bought some, but I haven't used it yet since I am not good at baking LOL but will try eventually.

This is very true. I have a voracious appetite whenever I am on vacation and want to eat everything and anything. My digestion improves significantly. I am also only thinking about the immediate present and very near future for the most part. When I return home my appetite and digestion immediately slow and I notice that I am plagued my long term worries regarding major life decisions. Maybe I should pretend everyday is a vacation.

 

[Cirion]

This is very true. I have a voracious appetite whenever I am on vacation and want to eat everything and anything. My digestion improves significantly. I am also only thinking about the immediate present and very near future for the most part. When I return home my appetite and digestion immediately slow and I notice that I am plagued my long term worries regarding major life decisions. Maybe I should pretend everyday is a vacation.

"Everyday is a vacation"... a man (or woman in this case) can dream right? This is my goal one day. I have started reading financial books like "Rich dad poor dad" to try to free myself from the "Employee" mindset, because like the author, I have come to realize the "Employee" life is just not for me. It is sad that most people nowadays can only feel "Free" one or two weeks a year, during vacations. The healthiest person I have ever known, man did he know how to vacation. I remember he took like a 3 month vacation to Australia one year or something.

 

[LUH 3417]

"Everyday is a vacation"... a man (or woman in this case) can dream right? This is my goal one day. I have started reading financial books like "Rich dad poor dad" to try to free myself from the "Employee" mindset, because like the author, I have come to realize the "Employee" life is just not for me. It is sad that most people nowadays can only feel "Free" one or two weeks a year, during vacations. The healthiest person I have ever known, man did he know how to vacation. I remember he took like a 3 month vacation to Australia one year or something.

Yea it really does something to just be able to live in the moment. I think a scarcity mindset literally makes my stomach shrivel. When I’m worried about work, money, striving I really can’t even dream of eating. It’s very sad what even thoughts are scarcity do to people. Lately I’ve been trying to imagine abundance. I live in a wealthy city and look at very wealthy people and think to myself if there is enough for them there must be enough for me too. Wishful thinking I suppose.

 

[somuch4food]

This is very true. I have a voracious appetite whenever I am on vacation and want to eat everything and anything. My digestion improves significantly. I am also only thinking about the immediate present and very near future for the most part. When I return home my appetite and digestion immediately slow and I notice that I am plagued my long term worries regarding major life decisions. Maybe I should pretend everyday is a vacation.

So, true. Make everyday a vacation (as a mindset since I still have to work). I think more and more that thinking too much is one of the most detrimental things to health. Thinking as a whole seems to be stressful to the organism. Creative thinking is different though, it seems to be more rewarding.

"Everyday is a vacation"... a man (or woman in this case) can dream right? This is my goal one day. I have started reading financial books like "Rich dad poor dad" to try to free myself from the "Employee" mindset, because like the author, I have come to realize the "Employee" life is just not for me. It is sad that most people nowadays can only feel "Free" one or two weeks a year, during vacations. The healthiest person I have ever known, man did he know how to vacation. I remember he took like a 3 month vacation to Australia one year or something.

I have periods when I feel like this, too. But then, I have others when I am grateful to have a secure and not too stressful desk job that provide me with enough money to sustain my modest lifestyle. I think a depressed metabolism is more inclined to feel locked down by the employee status where as when one is healthy, the focus is more on opportunities vs restrictions. Desk job don't do much for metabolism though, so it can be hard to reconcile those two.

 

[Cirion]

Yea it really does something to just be able to live in the moment. I think a scarcity mindset literally makes my stomach shrivel. When I’m worried about work, money, striving I really can’t even dream of eating. It’s very sad what even thoughts are scarcity do to people. Lately I’ve been trying to imagine abundance. I live in a wealthy city and look at very wealthy people and think to myself if there is enough for them there must be enough for me too. Wishful thinking I suppose.

Wealth is not wishful thinking. It's hard to imagine when you don't have it though. Fear of the unknown is strong for many people, including myself, especially myself even since I tend to be perfectionist. And people get extremely protective when it comes to money, not willing to take the risks necessary to succeed. I get it, we need money to survive so it can be easy to get overly conservative with it. One thing I am thinking of trying is playing with "Fake money" in the stock market for a while just to build up some confidence. It doesn't help too that we are trained from an early age to be docile good employees, and not taught how to be business owners and/or successful investors. Investing apparently can net some serious gains. Most people play it safe though and settle for the slow 6% gains. Anyone can be wealthy. It's just a matter of both knowledge, and an action mindset, and also a willingness to fail sometimes. At face value Thomas Edison was one of the biggest failures of all time... he failed hundreds of times in his quest to make a light bulb work, but guess what? Most people don't even remember the fact he failed a lot, they remember that he invented the light bulb, because ultimately the one success overshadows all his failures.

 

[LUH 3417]

Wealth is not wishful thinking. It's hard to imagine when you don't have it though. Fear of the unknown is strong for many people, including myself, especially myself even since I tend to be perfectionist. And people get extremely protective when it comes to money, not willing to take the risks necessary to succeed. I get it, we need money to survive so it can be easy to get overly conservative with it. One thing I am thinking of trying is playing with "Fake money" in the stock market for a while just to build up some confidence. It doesn't help too that we are trained from an early age to be docile good employees, and not taught how to be business owners and/or successful investors. Investing apparently can net some serious gains. Most people play it safe though and settle for the slow 6% gains. Anyone can be wealthy. It's just a matter of both knowledge, and an action mindset, and also a willingness to fail sometimes. At face value Thomas Edison was one of the biggest failures of all time... he failed hundreds of times in his quest to make a light bulb work, but guess what? Most people don't even remember the fact he failed a lot, they remember that he invented the light bulb, because ultimately the one success overshadows all his failures.

The problem is having money to start with. Even a tiny bit of inherited wealth makes it much easier to grow wealth. Something as small as 10k sets you far ahead of someone starting at -10k. But it’s possible to grow wealth, i definitely agree with you

 

[Cirion]

That's true to a degree, but I think most people don't know how to live within their means. I do make a decent income now, but I would make many many changes if I didn't. Being rich takes a mindset change from being victim to having control. I saved $5000 in just a yr or two back when I lived in Atlanta (Not a cheap city to live in) and made just barely above $20,000 a year. It can be done. I'd actually argue people who inherit have a much worse time, because they don't have to work for their money in the first place, they neither appreciate their money nor know how to take it and make it grow further properly. Being poor is a hidden blessing because you learn to appreciate money, live in your means, and really learn how to make what you do have, grow. I was very poor until I graduated grad school, so when I finally started to get decent paychecks, I had a great appreciation for it, and saved most of it, being able to do things like payoff my brand new car in just 2 yrs. I actually wouldn't even own a car or at least not use it much if I lived close enough to work to bike to it.

Though this is kinda getting off topic haha =P Feel free to PM if you wanna discuss more though.

 

[Kelj]

Did you sip the julius whenever you had a thought of food or just prepared a new one and chugged it down?

And during your recovery phase, did you do any exercise? Walks or light gyms sessions or bodyweight exercises or whatever floats one's boat.

I tend to be a sipper, but I just kept them coming.
The really surprising thing to me, during my recovery was how much muscle I gained without purposely exercising. I had lost a lot of muscle during keto/paleo dieting. It was very noticable. I had lost weight, but was flabby and deflated looking. When I started eating anything I wanted, I knew there was no point in taking in more energy to repair my body, if I was only going to waste those hard-won calories by unnecessary activity. I still lived my life, did chores, walked where I had to, but I didn't go to the gym, cycle or play tennis or hike like I used to. This allowed all my calories to be used for repair and normal function and guess what? My muscle came back. The body rebuilds it's normal physique without extraordinary measures. I tend to be mesomorph, so quite a bit of muscle is normal to me, but I had exchanged muscle for fat doing paleo, since I ate low carb and my body was using muscle for glucose. It is important to lay off the exercise to recover from calorie restriction. I completely recovered and achieved an improved physicality without discretionary exercise.

 

[iPeat]

Yes. Never noticed any benefits. I always wondered why I never even felt any burn from the hcl capsules. I worked up to 15x 650mg capsules and took them for a while, but never felt anything. When my bottle was running out I took one last 25g dose, but still nothing. No burn. All I felt was a bit more bloated.

I was in your position. What helped my digestion was a round Peat's flowers-of-sulfur protocol (in case it was SIBO) followed by making sure I ate a carrot every single day, away from other food. Also, I didn't do well on milk so I used an eggshell calcium supplement (I use a really good one from Amazon but now it's not available for some reason). The calcium is really important for digestion. Also, I would only eat bulky foods once a day (dinner). Now I have transit time of about 10 hours or less. I just can't seem to lose weight so take my words with a grain of salt (pun intended, I'm seeing nice improvement by having 10g of salt per day).

I also saw a boost in my health when I used high dose vitamin D (20k IUs) for a month. I'm assuming I was deficient or have some infection blocking absorption.

 

[iPeat]

I was in your position. What helped my digestion was a round Peat's flowers-of-sulfur protocol (in case it was SIBO) followed by making sure I ate a carrot every single day, away from other food. Also, I didn't do well on milk so I used an eggshell calcium supplement (I use a really good one from Amazon but now it's not available for some reason). The calcium is really important for digestion. Also, I would only eat bulky foods once a day (dinner). Now I have transit time of about 10 hours or less. I just can't seem to lose weight so take my words with a grain of salt (pun intended, I'm seeing nice improvement by having 10g of salt per day).

I also saw a boost in my health when I used high dose vitamin D (20k IUs) for a month. I'm assuming I was deficient or have some infection blocking absorption.

Organic Calcium & Vitamin D3 (240 Caplets); Organic; GMO Free; Vegetarian https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018RBL4YE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_5AX0CbSJC2F00

That's the calcium supplement I use. I don't know why it's unavailable. I just bought some not too long ago. Maybe just out of stock right now.

 

[opson123]

I tend to be a sipper, but I just kept them coming.
The really surprising thing to me, during my recovery was how much muscle I gained without purposely exercising. I had lost a lot of muscle during keto/paleo dieting. It was very noticable. I had lost weight, but was flabby and deflated looking. When I started eating anything I wanted, I knew there was no point in taking in more energy to repair my body, if I was only going to waste those hard-won calories by unnecessary activity. I still lived my life, did chores, walked where I had to, but I didn't go to the gym, cycle or play tennis or hike like I used to. This allowed all my calories to be used for repair and normal function and guess what? My muscle came back. The body rebuilds it's normal physique without extraordinary measures. I tend to be mesomorph, so quite a bit of muscle is normal to me, but I had exchanged muscle for fat doing paleo, since I ate low carb and my body was using muscle for glucose. It is important to lay off the exercise to recover from calorie restriction. I completely recovered and achieved an improved physicality without discretionary exercise.