Hungry Yet Gaining Weight

Kelj

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Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
299
Hello, everyone.

So in an attempt to lose some weight (I've gained a lot since I started "Peating"), I'm trying a very low fat diet. I'm mainly drinking sugared skim milk, lots of coffee, eating a couple pieces of fruit, few tbsps of gelatin, gummy bears, a carrot or two, and sometimes a bowl of cereal (low fat, PUFA-free) at night if hunger pangs are too much. Cronometer has me at around 5g of fat, if I remember correctly, and just over 2,000 calories. I've stopped taking aspirin and niacinamide so I don't inhibit fat release.

I've been doing this for a week and I'm still gaining weight, tired, and worse yet - I'm starving all day. If I consume more, I don't feel hungry, but I gain faster. I'm 6 foot, 206 lbs. Pulse is generally 80 bpm, temps could be higher but always over 98°. I've always been very fit but was willing to sacrifice that for a time while healing. I feel like I'm close to that now but can't shed the weight. No matter what I try, I just keep gaining.

Any advice?
Weight gain is the natural consequence of what you are doing. You do not say what your diet was before you were "peating", but it is obvious (to me) you improved your diet in quality and quantity. You still have what seems to be a good metabolic rate. And the weight gain is a sign your body finally has, at least some days, enough calories to store. Starving all day is a sure fire way to store fat the next time you eat any surplus of calories. Research and personal experience has shown me the way to be able to eat anything I want in the amount I want and lose weight ( when I needed to) and stay at a normal weight all the time. Here is what I did: 1. Listened to my body about what to eat. 2. Made no rules about what to eat, how much to eat, or when to eat. 3. Didn't try to "burn" any calories. Here's what happened: I gained weight (50 pounds, or so) over an eight month period. I knew my body was doing this to protect itself from the future famine I had taught it was likely. After that period, during which I ate as much as and anything I wanted, made myself comfortable and reassured myself it was normal to gain weight under the circumstances and the body is rational, I started to lose weight slowly but surely. Keep in mind, I'm still eating anything I want. I am getting more and more well all the time, even when I was gaining weight. The body does not need to store weight when food, especially carbs, are coming in on a regular basis. There are those who say this is not possible, but I did it. It is a well-known result among those who have completely recovered from disordered eating. The edinstitute website will tell you that 2000 calories is not enough for anyone. Also, read about the Minnesota Starvation experiment for some context.
 

Runenight201

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Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
1,942
Weight gain is the natural consequence of what you are doing. You do not say what your diet was before you were "peating", but it is obvious (to me) you improved your diet in quality and quantity. You still have what seems to be a good metabolic rate. And the weight gain is a sign your body finally has, at least some days, enough calories to store. Starving all day is a sure fire way to store fat the next time you eat any surplus of calories. Research and personal experience has shown me the way to be able to eat anything I want in the amount I want and lose weight ( when I needed to) and stay at a normal weight all the time. Here is what I did: 1. Listened to my body about what to eat. 2. Made no rules about what to eat, how much to eat, or when to eat. 3. Didn't try to "burn" any calories. Here's what happened: I gained weight (50 pounds, or so) over an eight month period. I knew my body was doing this to protect itself from the future famine I had taught it was likely. After that period, during which I ate as much as and anything I wanted, made myself comfortable and reassured myself it was normal to gain weight under the circumstances and the body is rational, I started to lose weight slowly but surely. Keep in mind, I'm still eating anything I want. I am getting more and more well all the time, even when I was gaining weight. The body does not need to store weight when food, especially carbs, are coming in on a regular basis. There are those who say this is not possible, but I did it. It is a well-known result among those who have completely recovered from disordered eating. The edinstitute website will tell you that 2000 calories is not enough for anyone. Also, read about the Minnesota Starvation experiment for some context.

I think while you have some good points, it’s important to be careful about how one goes about re-feeding. What I believe to have happen in your case and something that you touched upon and I believe to be the most important factor in getting healthy and maintaining a healthy weight, is that you learned to listen to your body, which led to you tending towards a diet that is supportive of your health. Over the course of the 8 months, through much trial and error, you essentially learned when a certain quantity of any particular type of food was enough, and rotated and combined different foods as needed to maintain health and moods.

While liberating oneself from any preconceived notion of what’s healthy and what’s not healthy is needed to eventually reach higher health states and a good weight, it certainly is not ideal to blindly eat whatever one wants without paying attention to how foods affect weight, energy, and conscious states. For the average person, I believe any type of excessive fat gain to be unoptimal, and an indication of poor dietary choices.
 

Kelj

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Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
299
In my experience of refeeding and the experience of many others, including the scientists and subjects of the Minnesota Starvation experiment, if you are careful about refeeding you are not recovering. The ideal is never to have restricted carbohydrates and calories in your whole life. In that case, your metabolism would never be suppressed, and your body would never have to store fat. Your body would use the excess energy on a daily basis to remodel, as Ray says, all the cells in your body that need remodeling and all body functions would remain normal. The body does not store fat under these circumstances, because storing excess fat is not optimal.
If this has not been an individual's life, there are only two other options, both of which must involve fat storage at some point:
1. The person has been chronically undereating every day, for some length of time, either because there is no food in their environment; they are personally too poor to ensure food security, there is food shortage due to famine or government mismanagement and they are starving (All starving people lose weight if the caloric restriction is constant.) OR the other category of starving people are portion control advocates and those with eating disorders who restrict calories. Anyone daily eating under the calories required to operate basic body functions AND provide enough energy to remodel is starving. In the Minnesota Starvation experiment, the starvation level of calories which caused them all trouble was 1,560.

2. The individual intermittently undereats calories. Some can't help it. There is food insecurity. Some days, weeks, months they have more food than others. Other individuals create this environment in the midst of plenty. They start calorie restrictive diets and then give up because the body needs more calories and is demanding them. Someone decides to "be good" and eat a salad today because yesterday they went to the all-you-can-eat buffet. There are myriad ways our culture has influenced our population to try to cut or "burn" calories when our bodies need an abundance.
The point at which those who make up group #1 will store fat is when they begin to take in more calories than their suppressed metabolisms are using. This is unavoidable. Every starving person who begins to eat more puts on weight (fat and muscle). The subjects of the Minnesota Starvation experiment all put on more weight than they had before the restriction period.
Group #2 will store fat every time they give up their restriction, however briefly. The more they cycle through restricting, then eating normally again, the fatter they become.
The body will always store fat for the famine around the corner. To break out of the fat storage metabolism will always involve further TEMPORARY fat gain. The men in the Minnesota Starvation experiment all lost their excess fat storage, in time, through unrestricted eating. The experimenters found that any restriction of calories during recovery did not result in health restoration. Giving vitamins and minerals did nothing unless the subjects were eating an abundance of calories, in some cases 11,000 calories in a day.
We cannot manipulate and override our bodies protective response of fat storage and become, forever, our normal weight and be well. Continued constant restriction is the only way not to store fat temporarily. This person can never achieve complete wellness and freedom from fear of fat gain. I respect Ray's point that lipolysis creates some negative symptoms. I have felt them in my recovery, as do others. However, in the context of calorie abundance, the body organizes its recovery in a rational way. Ray says there are two ways the body can eliminate fat:
1. Oxidation
2. Detoxification in the liver
In my recovery I have experienced both. Without manipulating my carb intake, at all, always keeping a high carb intake, I have felt the symptoms of ketogenesis alternating with the effects of fat being detoxified in my liver. Sometimes neither one was happening. My body progressed my fat loss, plus the loss of all cellulite, slowly to reduce the effects of estrogen liberation, as much as possible. Throughout the whole process, I was feeling and looking better, even during the fat gain. Ray says the organism is rational and I, now, know it's true.
I learned to listen to my body, and I still do. If it tells me to eat bread, I eat bread. If it tells me to drink a Pepsi, I drink a Pepsi. If it tells me to eat a cucumber salad, I do that. I eat until I don't want anymore. I never let myself be hungry. That is how I achieved a slim and well body. Others have found the same experience in essentials, though the damage that must be healed varies with the person, so details vary, too.
 

LUH 3417

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Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,990
In my experience of refeeding and the experience of many others, including the scientists and subjects of the Minnesota Starvation experiment, if you are careful about refeeding you are not recovering. The ideal is never to have restricted carbohydrates and calories in your whole life. In that case, your metabolism would never be suppressed, and your body would never have to store fat. Your body would use the excess energy on a daily basis to remodel, as Ray says, all the cells in your body that need remodeling and all body functions would remain normal. The body does not store fat under these circumstances, because storing excess fat is not optimal.
If this has not been an individual's life, there are only two other options, both of which must involve fat storage at some point:
1. The person has been chronically undereating every day, for some length of time, either because there is no food in their environment; they are personally too poor to ensure food security, there is food shortage due to famine or government mismanagement and they are starving (All starving people lose weight if the caloric restriction is constant.) OR the other category of starving people are portion control advocates and those with eating disorders who restrict calories. Anyone daily eating under the calories required to operate basic body functions AND provide enough energy to remodel is starving. In the Minnesota Starvation experiment, the starvation level of calories which caused them all trouble was 1,560.

2. The individual intermittently undereats calories. Some can't help it. There is food insecurity. Some days, weeks, months they have more food than others. Other individuals create this environment in the midst of plenty. They start calorie restrictive diets and then give up because the body needs more calories and is demanding them. Someone decides to "be good" and eat a salad today because yesterday they went to the all-you-can-eat buffet. There are myriad ways our culture has influenced our population to try to cut or "burn" calories when our bodies need an abundance.
The point at which those who make up group #1 will store fat is when they begin to take in more calories than their suppressed metabolisms are using. This is unavoidable. Every starving person who begins to eat more puts on weight (fat and muscle). The subjects of the Minnesota Starvation experiment all put on more weight than they had before the restriction period.
Group #2 will store fat every time they give up their restriction, however briefly. The more they cycle through restricting, then eating normally again, the fatter they become.
The body will always store fat for the famine around the corner. To break out of the fat storage metabolism will always involve further TEMPORARY fat gain. The men in the Minnesota Starvation experiment all lost their excess fat storage, in time, through unrestricted eating. The experimenters found that any restriction of calories during recovery did not result in health restoration. Giving vitamins and minerals did nothing unless the subjects were eating an abundance of calories, in some cases 11,000 calories in a day.
We cannot manipulate and override our bodies protective response of fat storage and become, forever, our normal weight and be well. Continued constant restriction is the only way not to store fat temporarily. This person can never achieve complete wellness and freedom from fear of fat gain. I respect Ray's point that lipolysis creates some negative symptoms. I have felt them in my recovery, as do others. However, in the context of calorie abundance, the body organizes its recovery in a rational way. Ray says there are two ways the body can eliminate fat:
1. Oxidation
2. Detoxification in the liver
In my recovery I have experienced both. Without manipulating my carb intake, at all, always keeping a high carb intake, I have felt the symptoms of ketogenesis alternating with the effects of fat being detoxified in my liver. Sometimes neither one was happening. My body progressed my fat loss, plus the loss of all cellulite, slowly to reduce the effects of estrogen liberation, as much as possible. Throughout the whole process, I was feeling and looking better, even during the fat gain. Ray says the organism is rational and I, now, know it's true.
I learned to listen to my body, and I still do. If it tells me to eat bread, I eat bread. If it tells me to drink a Pepsi, I drink a Pepsi. If it tells me to eat a cucumber salad, I do that. I eat until I don't want anymore. I never let myself be hungry. That is how I achieved a slim and well body. Others have found the same experience in essentials, though the damage that must be healed varies with the person, so details vary, too.
What if you absolutely did not have an appetite on some days? Would you force yourself to eat or follow appetite?
 

opson123

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
327
In my experience of refeeding and the experience of many others, including the scientists and subjects of the Minnesota Starvation experiment, if you are careful about refeeding you are not recovering. The ideal is never to have restricted carbohydrates and calories in your whole life. In that case, your metabolism would never be suppressed, and your body would never have to store fat. Your body would use the excess energy on a daily basis to remodel, as Ray says, all the cells in your body that need remodeling and all body functions would remain normal. The body does not store fat under these circumstances, because storing excess fat is not optimal.
If this has not been an individual's life, there are only two other options, both of which must involve fat storage at some point:
1. The person has been chronically undereating every day, for some length of time, either because there is no food in their environment; they are personally too poor to ensure food security, there is food shortage due to famine or government mismanagement and they are starving (All starving people lose weight if the caloric restriction is constant.) OR the other category of starving people are portion control advocates and those with eating disorders who restrict calories. Anyone daily eating under the calories required to operate basic body functions AND provide enough energy to remodel is starving. In the Minnesota Starvation experiment, the starvation level of calories which caused them all trouble was 1,560.

2. The individual intermittently undereats calories. Some can't help it. There is food insecurity. Some days, weeks, months they have more food than others. Other individuals create this environment in the midst of plenty. They start calorie restrictive diets and then give up because the body needs more calories and is demanding them. Someone decides to "be good" and eat a salad today because yesterday they went to the all-you-can-eat buffet. There are myriad ways our culture has influenced our population to try to cut or "burn" calories when our bodies need an abundance.
The point at which those who make up group #1 will store fat is when they begin to take in more calories than their suppressed metabolisms are using. This is unavoidable. Every starving person who begins to eat more puts on weight (fat and muscle). The subjects of the Minnesota Starvation experiment all put on more weight than they had before the restriction period.
Group #2 will store fat every time they give up their restriction, however briefly. The more they cycle through restricting, then eating normally again, the fatter they become.
The body will always store fat for the famine around the corner. To break out of the fat storage metabolism will always involve further TEMPORARY fat gain. The men in the Minnesota Starvation experiment all lost their excess fat storage, in time, through unrestricted eating. The experimenters found that any restriction of calories during recovery did not result in health restoration. Giving vitamins and minerals did nothing unless the subjects were eating an abundance of calories, in some cases 11,000 calories in a day.
We cannot manipulate and override our bodies protective response of fat storage and become, forever, our normal weight and be well. Continued constant restriction is the only way not to store fat temporarily. This person can never achieve complete wellness and freedom from fear of fat gain. I respect Ray's point that lipolysis creates some negative symptoms. I have felt them in my recovery, as do others. However, in the context of calorie abundance, the body organizes its recovery in a rational way. Ray says there are two ways the body can eliminate fat:
1. Oxidation
2. Detoxification in the liver
In my recovery I have experienced both. Without manipulating my carb intake, at all, always keeping a high carb intake, I have felt the symptoms of ketogenesis alternating with the effects of fat being detoxified in my liver. Sometimes neither one was happening. My body progressed my fat loss, plus the loss of all cellulite, slowly to reduce the effects of estrogen liberation, as much as possible. Throughout the whole process, I was feeling and looking better, even during the fat gain. Ray says the organism is rational and I, now, know it's true.
I learned to listen to my body, and I still do. If it tells me to eat bread, I eat bread. If it tells me to drink a Pepsi, I drink a Pepsi. If it tells me to eat a cucumber salad, I do that. I eat until I don't want anymore. I never let myself be hungry. That is how I achieved a slim and well body. Others have found the same experience in essentials, though the damage that must be healed varies with the person, so details vary, too.

Is this "eat all you want, as much as you want" approach only relevant to people recovering from undereating, but without any serious gut issues? Or also for people with gut issues which results in undereating?

People with gut issues like, gastritis, gastroparesis, SIBO, IBS, Chron's etc. tend to undereat, because you just can't eat enough anything without feeling awful, eating more just makes symptoms worse, you get symptoms on top of symptoms. I forced myself to eat over 4000kcal for a month and I just had to stop, because I felt so bad.

Do you think I just didn't keep it up long enough? My issues are gut related, inflammation and indigestion, various related symptoms. I'm not fat, I didn't gain any fat from that 4k stint, I'm a pretty short 166cm guy, so 4000kcal is a massive amount of food for me. My usual daily amont is 1100-1650kcal.
 

Cirion

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Sep 1, 2017
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St. Louis, Missouri
Yeah the problem I've recently come to accept is that over-eating can actually be quite detrimental, but it took me 90 lbs of weight gain to realize. If you can't digest the foods you are eating, and create massive endotoxic responses, then all you're doing is not only getting fat, but moving your hormones in the wrong direction (excess estrogens). There's a fine line between fat gain and excess estrogen gain. If you're gaining several lbs a day, you need to re-consider your eating habits. (This was happening to me on the "eat everything in sight" diet). Excess estrogen and endotoxin results in excess bloat which is a negative feedback loop - bloat promotes estrogen and further weight gain, further weight gain and bloat and estrogen promotes more buildup of the former. Food that isn't digesting well and causing endotoxic responses are absolutely NOT healing your body.

I now realize the answer is balance. Do not starve yourself 100% agree but don't stuff yourself either. I seem to need roughly 3-3.5k calories a day, and I eat too much more I bloat up like a balloon, but if I eat less I feel bad. Eat what you truly need, but not more than that. It seems like people always take things to extremes - either people promote forced caloric restriction or people recommend eating 10,000 calories a day. I'm done being an extremist. The recommendations of 10,000 calories might apply if you're severely underweight, but someone who is already fat has no business eating 10,000 calories a day.

One should listen to their gut, in this case literally. If you think you're gaining too much weight, you probably are. I should have listened to my gut but I ignored it. if I continued to ignore it, I'd probably be 300 lbs and still rising.
 
Last edited:

opson123

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Dec 11, 2018
Messages
327
Yeah, and with messed up gut, digestion, metablism etc. and the resulting stress, if it goes on long enough, that shitty state becomes your new baseline. Getting out of it is really difficult. Your hunger signals also become messed up, you're no longer able to tell what your body needs. I haven't felt genuine hunger for many years now.
 

Cirion

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Yeah, and with messed up gut, digestion, metablism etc. and the resulting stress, if it goes on long enough, that shitty state becomes your new baseline. Getting out of it is really difficult. Your hunger signals also become messed up, you're no longer able to tell what your body needs. I haven't felt genuine hunger for many years now.

Yeah see that's the problem with intuitive eating. Don't get me wrong it's fantastic if you have a good intuition, but many of our intuitions are broken. If I listened to my cravings I'd be eating papa john's pizza, Wendy's, ice cream, donuts etc... Most people do listen to their "cravings" and this is precisely the standard American diet...
 
OP
iPeat

iPeat

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Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
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Weight gain is the natural consequence of what you are doing. You do not say what your diet was before you were "peating", but it is obvious (to me) you improved your diet in quality and quantity. You still have what seems to be a good metabolic rate. And the weight gain is a sign your body finally has, at least some days, enough calories to store. Starving all day is a sure fire way to store fat the next time you eat any surplus of calories. Research and personal experience has shown me the way to be able to eat anything I want in the amount I want and lose weight ( when I needed to) and stay at a normal weight all the time. Here is what I did: 1. Listened to my body about what to eat. 2. Made no rules about what to eat, how much to eat, or when to eat. 3. Didn't try to "burn" any calories. Here's what happened: I gained weight (50 pounds, or so) over an eight month period. I knew my body was doing this to protect itself from the future famine I had taught it was likely. After that period, during which I ate as much as and anything I wanted, made myself comfortable and reassured myself it was normal to gain weight under the circumstances and the body is rational, I started to lose weight slowly but surely. Keep in mind, I'm still eating anything I want. I am getting more and more well all the time, even when I was gaining weight. The body does not need to store weight when food, especially carbs, are coming in on a regular basis. There are those who say this is not possible, but I did it. It is a well-known result among those who have completely recovered from disordered eating. The edinstitute website will tell you that 2000 calories is not enough for anyone. Also, read about the Minnesota Starvation experiment for some context.


Hello. I thought I mentioned it but I forget. I was Paleo for 2 years then 3 years of Keto/IF. I strictly adhered to those diets and never under ate. I was constantly amazed that I could stay in good shape (by appearance) while eating whatever I wanted. Then I found Peat. For the first month I felt like Superman. It's been slowly getting worse since then (over a year now). I've only been trying to lose the extra weight for the last few months and just keep gaining. I'm convinced something about my sugar metabolism is seriously broken.
 

Kelj

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Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
299
What if you absolutely did not have an appetite on some days? Would you force yourself to eat or follow appetite?
The only reason for even thinking in terms of calories is to re-educate ourselves about what is enough food, but ultimately, a healthy body will drive us to eat more on one day and less on another. We just shouldn't say no. People, like me, who had been on very low carb diets, all report loss of hunger signals. Low calorie, too, may eventually produce this. The reason is the adaptation of the body to burn fat and keep it in that state through the brain's selection of insulin resistance to prevent the other cells from using the limited glucose supply. The body's fat, muscles, nerves, bone, etc. are providing the body's needs for energy in a steady stream. Why would you be hungry? But, you are becoming increasingly damaged. To turn this around we have to eat, but may not feel hungry at first. Don't think of hunger as stomach growling. By the time that happens, you are low blood sugar. Think of hunger as the thought of food. Eat within twenty minutes of the thought of food. Repeatedly ask yourself if you could eat anything in the world what would you most want. Eat as close to that ideal as possible. Eat small amounts frequently. Doing this will gradually make normal desire for food reappear. You will want to eat a lot of carbs and this will eventually stop the gluconeogenesis which is making hunger signals unnecessary.
 

Kelj

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Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
299
Is this "eat all you want, as much as you want" approach only relevant to people recovering from undereating, but without any serious gut issues? Or also for people with gut issues which results in undereating?

People with gut issues like, gastritis, gastroparesis, SIBO, IBS, Chron's etc. tend to undereat, because you just can't eat enough anything without feeling awful, eating more just makes symptoms worse, you get symptoms on top of symptoms. I forced myself to eat over 4000kcal for a month and I just had to stop, because I felt so bad.

Do you think I just didn't keep it up long enough? My issues are gut related, inflammation and indigestion, various related symptoms. I'm not fat, I didn't gain any fat from that 4k stint, I'm a pretty short 166cm guy, so 4000kcal is a massive amount of food for me. My usual daily amont is 1100-1650kcal.
Eating what and how much my body was asking for is how I cured my gut issues. As Cirion replied here, "eat what you truly need". That is exactly right. But, who knows what you truly need? Your intellect doesn't know. Making rules about food consumption is the American diet. When people didn't know about macros, micros and calories they were slim and well as long as their food supply was secure. Americans increasingly restrict in hundreds of ways and we have become sicker through the decades we have been devising new ways to lower calorie intake. The body knows what it needs. We need to wake up and listen to it and stop making up rules. Bowel troubles are a result of not enough energy to make repairs to the intestinal tract. How do we ever expect to heal it? I used to have colitis and diverticulitis symptoms. Now, I have none. It takes energy from calories and glucos/ fructose to heal the gut. In recovery I gained weight. Anyone else who has ever recovered gained weight. You will gain weight. In recovery, I lost all the excess weight by continually eating NOT everything in sight, but everything my body wanted. I am not the only person who has ever experienced full physical recovery from gut issues doing this. You can, too. Your body knows what you need to eat to heal. You will experience bloating as I did. It is part of the repair process. You will experience the effects of estrogen being released from fat stores, as I did. These are unavoidable processes of repair and fat elimination, but the brain guides the process and makes it as gentle as possible. There is also pain as some things repair. Pain is always a result of repairs being made. What this is, is trust that your body isn't trying to defeat you, but wants to make you well. This is not about giving your body anything it does not want either in amount or type of food, but you can't make up rules about eating and force those, intellectually, on your body, either. It will end badly.
 

somuch4food

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Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,281
Eating what and how much my body was asking for is how I cured my gut issues. As Cirion replied here, "eat what you truly need". That is exactly right. But, who knows what you truly need? Your intellect doesn't know. Making rules about food consumption is the American diet. When people didn't know about macros, micros and calories they were slim and well as long as their food supply was secure. Americans increasingly restrict in hundreds of ways and we have become sicker through the decades we have been devising new ways to lower calorie intake. The body knows what it needs. We need to wake up and listen to it and stop making up rules. Bowel troubles are a result of not enough energy to make repairs to the intestinal tract. How do we ever expect to heal it? I used to have colitis and diverticulitis symptoms. Now, I have none. It takes energy from calories and glucos/ fructose to heal the gut. In recovery I gained weight. Anyone else who has ever recovered gained weight. You will gain weight. In recovery, I lost all the excess weight by continually eating NOT everything in sight, but everything my body wanted. I am not the only person who has ever experienced full physical recovery from gut issues doing this. You can, too. Your body knows what you need to eat to heal. You will experience bloating as I did. It is part of the repair process. You will experience the effects of estrogen being released from fat stores, as I did. These are unavoidable processes of repair and fat elimination, but the brain guides the process and makes it as gentle as possible. There is also pain as some things repair. Pain is always a result of repairs being made. What this is, is trust that your body isn't trying to defeat you, but wants to make you well. This is not about giving your body anything it does not want either in amount or type of food, but you can't make up rules about eating and force those, intellectually, on your body, either. It will end badly.

The most difficult part I find in refeeding is getting rid of my brain's control. Each post I read from you brings me ever closer to your path.

As a modern society, we are thinking too much about everything instead of being guided by our soul. We have been endoctrinated with rules and are losing touch with ourselves. Getting our instincts back is essential to a stress free life since I think any form of active directed thinking is a stress signal to the body.
 

Kelj

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Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
299
The most difficult part I find in refeeding is getting rid of my brain's control. Each post I read from you brings me ever closer to your path.

As a modern society, we are thinking too much about everything instead of being guided by our soul. We have been endoctrinated with rules and are losing touch with ourselves. Getting our instincts back is essential to a stress free life since I think any form of active directed thinking is a stress signal to the body.
You are so right. Every animal knows how to feed itself. What is our problem?
 

Cirion

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St. Louis, Missouri
You are so right. Every animal knows how to feed itself. What is our problem?

I think it would help a lot if grocery stores actually sold food instead of all the adulterated products that pass for "food" nowadays.

Animals don't need to worry about checking labels for organic or in-organic, refined or unrefined, or added carrageenan gum or whatever...
 

somuch4food

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Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,281
I think it would help a lot if grocery stores actually sold food instead of all the adulterated products that pass for "food" nowadays.

Animals don't need to worry about checking labels for organic or in-organic, refined or unrefined, or added carrageenan gum or whatever...

Yeah, processed food is designed to be addictive to sell more of it and play tricks with our brains. But, even then it's not truly what the body wants, it's the brain getting addicted. I think marketing is highly responsible for our addiction to those foods.

As @Kelj mentions, it's the thought of eating a food that should be followed. It shouldn't come from an outer influence.

The only thing I would still mostly avoid even with intuition is products made with PUFA vegetable oils. I can enjoy bread with butter or olive oil, but canola oil, soybean oil, they don't taste good.

Even bread, now that I compare taste and how it feels instead of eating it because it's heavily marketed and cheaper, I see that presliced breads are garbage compared to freshly baked ones, even store bought.
 

opson123

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Eating what and how much my body was asking for is how I cured my gut issues. As Cirion replied here, "eat what you truly need". That is exactly right. But, who knows what you truly need? Your intellect doesn't know. Making rules about food consumption is the American diet. When people didn't know about macros, micros and calories they were slim and well as long as their food supply was secure. Americans increasingly restrict in hundreds of ways and we have become sicker through the decades we have been devising new ways to lower calorie intake. The body knows what it needs. We need to wake up and listen to it and stop making up rules. Bowel troubles are a result of not enough energy to make repairs to the intestinal tract. How do we ever expect to heal it? I used to have colitis and diverticulitis symptoms. Now, I have none. It takes energy from calories and glucos/ fructose to heal the gut. In recovery I gained weight. Anyone else who has ever recovered gained weight. You will gain weight. In recovery, I lost all the excess weight by continually eating NOT everything in sight, but everything my body wanted. I am not the only person who has ever experienced full physical recovery from gut issues doing this. You can, too. Your body knows what you need to eat to heal. You will experience bloating as I did. It is part of the repair process. You will experience the effects of estrogen being released from fat stores, as I did. These are unavoidable processes of repair and fat elimination, but the brain guides the process and makes it as gentle as possible. There is also pain as some things repair. Pain is always a result of repairs being made. What this is, is trust that your body isn't trying to defeat you, but wants to make you well. This is not about giving your body anything it does not want either in amount or type of food, but you can't make up rules about eating and force those, intellectually, on your body, either. It will end badly.

You said to trust your body and ignore any rules related to eating. Do you mean in the context of real food? If I crave donuts, it's not donuts I should eat, but something else that's not deep fried in pufa oil, but has the same macro split/food composition that satisfies that craving? Or should I just happily eat donuts and ignore the pufa, gluten etc?

So literally eat whatever I crave, or eat whatever I crave, but choose healthier alternatives?
 

somuch4food

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Aug 23, 2018
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You said to trust your body and ignore any rules related to eating. Do you mean in the context of real food? If I crave donuts, it's not donuts I should eat, but something else that's not deep fried in pufa oil, but has the same macro split/food composition that satisfies that craving? Or should I just happily eat donuts and ignore the pufa, gluten etc?

So literally eat whatever I crave, or eat whatever I crave, but choose healthier alternatives?

Personally, when I get craving for those kinds of foods, I make them myself if I have the time. If not possible, I try to find other less harmful calorie dense foods. Those foods are usually craved for their high energy content.

Sometimes, I just indulge and try to tune into my whole body more after eating it to record how I felt. If my body learns that the food does not feel good, the craving won't come back. The trick I find is to focus on the whole body reaction not just how it feels in the mouth or on the brain. When I was younger, I pretty much ate whatever I wanted because it tasted good and was available and not because I felt I needed it. I think that's how I got my issues. I also had a tendency to overeat to finish my plate.
 

opson123

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Dec 11, 2018
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My problem is that no matter what I eat, I feel bad and regret eating it. So it's a choice between feeling really bad and a bit less bad. o_O

Everything just sits in my stomach for hours. It feels like it takes more energy to digest and move the food forward than what I get out of it. It's also really difficult to eat much when what you ate for breakfast is still sitting in your upper gut 4-6 hours later. If you eat more, it just keeps building up and eventually you're so full you can't breathe, because you can't expand your diaphragm.

I guess calorie density is one of the reasons milk chocolate works a bit better for me. Lots of calories and low volume. Boiled starches just aren't dense enough. Even baked starches aren't dense enough.
 

somuch4food

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Aug 23, 2018
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My problem is that no matter what I eat, I feel bad and regret eating it. So it's a choice between feeling really bad and a bit less bad. o_O

Everything just sits in my stomach for hours. It feels like it takes more energy to digest and move the food forward than what I get out of it. It's also really difficult to eat much when what you ate for breakfast is still sitting in your upper gut 4-6 hours later. If you eat more, it just keeps building up and eventually you're so full you can't breathe, because you can't expand your diaphragm.

I guess calorie density is one of the reasons milk chocolate works a bit better for me. Lots of calories and low volume. Boiled starches just aren't dense enough. Even baked starches aren't dense enough.

Have you tried mainly eating soups and stews? Those are the kind of dishes I find easiest to digest. Adding some specific herbs and spices can also improve digestability.
 

opson123

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Dec 11, 2018
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327
Yes, it doesn't really matter what I eat, the resulting discomfort or pain is almost the same. There are some differences in symptoms depending on the food, but overall I always feel bad. Thanks anyway.
 

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