"Huge" Sleepiness After Eating Meat Of Sugar

[Astolfo]

I ate a few hundred grams of chicken, nearly a half hour ago. Now, I'm barely keep my eyes open. A sudden sleepiness and fatigue appears every time when I eat something sugary or high in protein. What do you think?

Note:

I also have some serious gut problems like bloating, noise and excessive gas production etc.

 

[Cirion]

Protein heavy meals especially in the absence of carbs is a well known way to induce fatigue/lethargy, RP has written extensively on this. I have found that if the meal was too protein heavy, that I pretty much can't counter the oncoming fatigue even with a lot of carbs. Chicken is one of the lowest quality protein you can get IMO. I never eat chicken any more. There is nothing redeemable in it IMO. Personally I find beef to be the "safest" meat but even that, I try not to over do it. Beef has a lot more favorable nutrient profile than chicken. I've found for me personally, 120 gram or so of protein a day is the sweet spot. Any less and I start to feel off, was starting to get some weird aches and pains, any more and I get incessant fatigue.

Regarding sugar, I have personally found one should not rely exclusively on sugar for carbs as a similar problem can occur. I opt more towards glucose/starch these days for carbs with still a respectable amount of sugar, but not using sugar as my main carb source anymore. Even fruit which is the best sugar source you can get, can be over-done I've found.

 

[Astolfo]

Protein heavy meals especially in the absence of carbs is a well known way to induce fatigue/lethargy, RP has written extensively on this. I have found that if the meal was too protein heavy, that I pretty much can't counter the oncoming fatigue even with a lot of carbs. Chicken is one of the lowest quality protein you can get IMO. I never eat chicken any more. There is nothing redeemable in it IMO. Personally I find beef to be the "safest" meat but even that, I try not to over do it. Beef has a lot more favorable nutrient profile than chicken.

Regarding sugar, I have personally found one should not rely exclusively on sugar for carbs as a similar problem can occur. I opt more towards glucose/starch these days for carbs with still a respectable amount of sugar, but not using sugar as my main carb source anymore. Even fruit which is the best sugar source you can get, can be over-done I've found.

Thanks so much. May you prefer one of the good carb sources you're consuming these days?

 

[Cirion]

From what I recall, you were having some gut issues right? the drawback of starch is that it could be bad if one has gut problems. But, these days I have white rice, potatoes, oatmeal, pasta (made from rice or quinoa). Am thinking of adding in sprouted grain items like maybe bagels, tortillas, bread (like Ezekiel bread) etc just to add some more variety. Wheat can be tolerated for some people but that's something to be very cautious of, especially if it is fortified with things like iron. Fruit, maple syrup are still always good and I have them often, just not as the main souce.

I do think the gut is one of the keys to health now. I also have some gut problems but not the extreme that you do. But there are foods I can't tolerate and I'm having my own health issues. I think it's a combination of gut microbiome, gut lining health (avoiding "leaky gut" problems), parasites in your gut. These three seem to be the key. But fixing all that, I haven't yet fully solved, this to be quite honest seems to be the hardest part of the health puzzle to solve.

A happy gut is a happy body that's for sure. So I want to figure it out. I believe it was Haidut that said virtually all serotonin is formed in the gut, so fix the gut, fix arguably every health problem down the line. Once the gut is healed you can tolerate a lot more foods it seems and not only that, more foods becoming healing rather than harmful.

 

[somuch4food]

I ate a few hundred grams of chicken, nearly a half hour ago. Now, I'm barely keep my eyes open. A sudden sleepiness and fatigue appears every time when I eat something sugary or high in protein. What do you think?

I would look into insulin resistance and balancing blood sugar. Proteins and sugar both create insulin spikes. I am not an expert on this though and can't provide much, but that's what I would research. There's probably something with B vitamins as well if you tolerate well something like potatoes, but have more trouble with table sugar.

I had something similar going on this week and I took a B multi today and felt better this morning.

 

[Cirion]

I would look into insulin resistance and balancing blood sugar. Proteins and sugar both create insulin spikes. I am not an expert on this though and can't provide much, but that's what I would research. There's probably something with B vitamins as well if you tolerate well something like potatoes, but have more trouble with table sugar.

Yes, that's what I was referring to in my previous post (albeit indirectly). RP has stated that protein can powerfully lower blood sugar, especially the muscle meats, so without an appropriate balancing of carbohydrate can cause problems. I am personally finding I do best on VERY VERY high carb:protein ratios (as high as 8-10:1). Certainly I probably wouldn't go lower than 4-6:1. Once you start to get lower than 4:1 is when (in my experience) the negative symptoms really start to creep in and the research supports this also that androgens drop as you go below 3-4:1 (I can post the study later if I remember)

Also, I have recently discovered that fats are extremely problematic as well for one who is hypothyroid like myself. The randle cycle is a MAJOR problem and is to be avoided at all costs which means I tend to go into "Carbosis" (opposite of ketosis if you will) which basically means I eat virtually zero fat nowadays. You might not need to go that extreme, but I caused a lot of damage to myself in terms of the randle cycle and the resulting insulin resistance that the randle cycle causes. That's where mainstream medicine got everything wrong regarding insulin resistance. Mixing carbs with fats is what causes insulin resistance, in a nutshell, not carbs in-and-of-themselves. In fact eating carbs in the absence of fats is what cures insulin resistance. FFA's cause insulin resistance because they interfere with the cellular uptake of glucose. Unfortunately because I'm fat, I am going to fight a huge uphill battle to regain my glucose sensitivity - since even though I no longer eat much fat, I have a huge store of body fat that keeps FFA's floating around anyway.

If you must eat a fatty meal, best to eat it away from carbs. My mom told me she used to do "food combining" which was doing exactly this - not avoiding fats, but not eating it with carbs either. Keep them as separate meals. I am personally finding lately that any meat I have, I like to eat around lunch time, and reserve morning and evenings for carb heavy meals. Morning to replenish glycogen, and evening to store glycogen for the nightly fast.

 

[somuch4food]

It looks like the energy I felt from the multi was not really all that positive. I realised this when I woke up wired during the night unable to go back to sleep for hours... I can say I was strangely energic during the evening. I definately reacted to my phone screen which was not the case the day before.

Once again, I'm reminded that supplements are not the answer.

 

[Yi at LDT]

Try some bitter melon extract for insulin/blood sugar. Seriously strong stuff coming from a bonified sugar addict who knows that fatigue very well. The difference was super noticeable for me. You can also try 'stone lotus' (you can probably find it in your neighbors garden sinocrassula indica), Ceylon cinnamon and brewer yeast. Hope that helps!

You are in sugar land, be wary ; )

 

[Cirion]

The word "sugar addiction" I admit is somewhat of a triggering term for me - because there's no such thing as it. Our bodies run off of primarily carbohydrates / sugar so of course we have a natural desire to have them. Suppressing this desire is actually what is unnatural. That said, sugar in my experience tends to deplete nutrients quickly so I tend to go more towards starch than sugars. And I do agree with brewer's or nutritional yeast because they contain a lot of B vitamins.

Starting off on a peat inspired diet can seen unnerving to some people because they notice their appetite increase. That's a good thing, the appetite will have been suppressed for a long time by avoiding carbs. Many calorie restriction advocates love ways to natural reduce appetite to make calorie reducing easier. I have been on diets that let me eat less than 2000 calories and not be hungry. But I also felt like dog s***. They are not healthful. Meanwhile now I eat 4500+ calories a day while sedentary and not only have stopped gaining weight, even seem to start losing it now. So, I'm not all about that "curbing carb addiction" or "curbing appetite" anymore =P

If you still want to blame addiction, shift the blame towards dietary fat addiction and stress addiction. I DO believe in both of those addictions, as I've had them, and those are truly to blame for fat gain and metabolic disorders.

Carbs DO have a tendency to increase appetite - that is because it is revving the metabolism! So people blame carbs for making people fat, but in reality, its eating carbs with excess fats that is the primary blame (especially if said fats are PUFA).

@somuch4food yep on supplements. I'm still taking no supplements at all except T3, but even T3 I'm not 100% sure I'm gonna keep it in my stack or not, that remains to be seen.

 

[somuch4food]

yep on supplements. I'm still taking no supplements at all except T3, but even T3 I'm not 100% sure I'm gonna keep it in my stack or not, that remains to be seen.

Since I'm pregnant, I'm being advised to take a multivitamin. I haven't been regular with it because I don't like supplements and with this experience I'm ruling it out. I tried since I felt tired most days, it helped but a bit too much. At least, I know Bs are the answer. I will have to elaborate a diet that can fit my needs without supplements, with lots of carbs of course!

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

Man, I have been off this forum for a while, but I'm seeing Cirion with BS comments everywhere. Dude, you are the definition of cult purveyor. Stop it already. Your advice is garbage and misleading. I agree fats and carbs shouldn't be combined, but get off Peat's **** already. Eating 4500 calories in a sedentary lifestyle is horrible advice. You are going to die like a pig. You should be banned from this forum for spouting your garbage.

Diets are individualized frameworks. They must challenge the body. Just like exercise should. If you aren't keeping the body on its toes by changing things up, then you're going to be a metabolic disaster. Cirion is obviously a metabolic disaster who shouldn't be issuing any advice. Dude, do you how difficult it to zap your glycogen stores without exercise? Really difficult. The reason you're fat is because your glycogen stores never deplete, yet you keep topping off your stores that aren't empty. Stop eating carbs and exercise! Good lord, shoot me already. Where is Haidut or a moderator to get this shilly troll off this forum.

 

[Cirion]

Man, I have been off this forum for a while, but I'm seeing Cirion with BS comments everywhere. Dude, you are the definition of cult purveyor. Stop it already. Your advice is garbage and misleading. I agree fats and carbs shouldn't be combined, but get off Peat's **** already. Eating 4500 calories in a sedentary lifestyle is horrible advice. You are going to die like a pig. You should be banned from this forum for spouting your garbage.

Diets are individualized frameworks. They must challenge the body. Just like exercise should. If you aren't keeping the body on its toes by changing things up, then you're going to be a metabolic disaster. Cirion is obviously a metabolic disaster who shouldn't be issuing any advice. Dude, do you how difficult it to zap your glycogen stores without exercise? Really difficult. The reason you're fat is because your glycogen stores never deplete, yet you keep topping off your stores that aren't empty. Stop eating carbs and exercise! Good lord, shoot me already. Where is Haidut or a moderator to get this shilly troll off this forum.

You speak of trolls, and then spout off the biggest troll-bait post I have seen in a while. But, I'm not taking the bait, because I got better things to do. I have an answer to just about all of what you say that the very people you want to ban me would also tell you, but since I know you will ignore it, I'm not gonna bother.

What I will say though is if you are truly interested in learning with an open mind, take a look at my evidence based post here based upon my own data:

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

I recently cracked the code on how to get 85+ bpm waking Pulses, the last piece of the code is cracking a 98.6F waking temp every day, and I'm very close to that as well.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

I am self-banning myself from this forum. What is your experience bro? Have you ever worked with a real client? Or are you just spouting and parroting a bunch of crap you've read. I've been at this nutrition game a long time and watched people suffer with eating disorders, gut dysbiosis, thryoid disasters, you name it. Internet fighting is weak. I'm losing my mind reading your horseshit comments spread out all over this site. You are giving people garbage advice over and over as you eat your "stack" with meds, 4500 calories, and keep up a sedentary lifestyle. Do you ever consider why you're cold at that calorie load? Because you keep raising your body's set point. The code is 98.6F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? No it's not. You have zero science to back that up. Some people are perfectly healthy at low temps. Where is that temp coming from? A thermometer in your mouth? Do you know how inaccurate a body thermometer is? There is no correlation between a mouth thermometer and thyroid activity.

I'm banning myself. Apparently, no one is moderating this forum because you're allowed to roam, offer unsolicited advice, and support nothing with real science or client work. Cirion, you exemplify why people are so confused and frustrated. I'm out.

 

[Cirion]

Internet fighting is weak

Well, on that we can both agree. I just offered that thread as an olive branch to get some genuine discourse going, but it's cool man if you don't wish to look at it, was just a thought. Ray has repeatedly said that 85 bpm+ is the mark of ideal metabolism (higher IQ's) and 98.6F, well, that's the body's ideal temperature. I am sorry you feel so angry about me, but I'm not sorry for aggressively pursuing my theories. I clearly have a disclaimer in my signature, as a reminder to anyone who might be reading my posts that no matter how passionate I may be, at the end of the day a lot of what I say is indeed my opinion, but often based upon what I've learned here.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

Ray Peat is a punk who pushes garbage. He pushes "mechanisms". You could study every ounce of the human body for a million years and never understand it. Ray Peat, no more than you or I, will ever have 0.00000001% understanding of the complexities of the human body. It's not about diets, or insulin, or Randle cycles or Cori Cycles or Krebs cycles. That is people studying a few variables drawing correlations. Nobel Prize winners have discovered nothing.

All diets will work for a short time for everyone. Change the calendar year and that same diet will fail that person. Our gut flora wants status quo. Disease wants status quo. Hell, cancer can flourish on sugar or fat depending on the person. The only answer is hormesis, but guess what, hormesis won't sell a supplement or a pharmaceutical or a YouTube guru's book. Change is the only constant of life. It's about living in the present and not worrying about your past ills or future illusions.

Cirion, I urge you to leave the matrix. Mis and Disinformation is everywhere. I'm creating my logbook to show everyone that they're wrong (just as I am wrong). I'm wrong constantly. Health is about n=1. There is no randomized controlled metabolic ward study that will fit everyone's dogma. There are a ton of smart people on here, but all are dumb as f*** because they are blinded by their brilliance. People must let go of the science. Start sleeping. Start eating like normal people (without omega 6s/combining fats and starches). Put down the electronics. Turn off your wifi. Go camping. Be with your family. Talk to your neighbors. Play a game. Jump in a cold lake. Intermittent fast. Interval train. Laugh. Die with a legacy.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

sorry if I attacked you. I truly despise the internet. It's a beautiful curse that I have left behind. It's destroying lives through politics and porn. It's divide and conquer and our controllers laugh at us constantly because we join a tribe and strike our neighbors. Take care. May you find peace and health in this life. This will be my last post on this forum.

 

[Cirion]

Ray Peat is a punk who pushes garbage. He pushes "mechanisms". You could study every ounce of the human body for a million years and never understand it. Ray Peat, no more than you or I, will ever have 0.00000001% understanding of the complexities of the human body. It's not about diets, or insulin, or Randle cycles or Cori Cycles or Krebs cycles. That is people studying a few variables drawing correlations. Nobel Prize winners have discovered nothing.

All diets will work for a short time for everyone. Change the calendar year and that same diet will fail that person. Our gut flora wants status quo. Disease wants status quo. Hell, cancer can flourish on sugar or fat depending on the person. The only answer is hormesis, but guess what, hormesis won't sell a supplement or a pharmaceutical or a YouTube guru's book. Change is the only constant of life. It's about living in the present and not worrying about your past ills or future illusions.

Cirion, I urge you to leave the matrix. Mis and Disinformation is everywhere. I'm creating my logbook to show everyone that they're wrong (just as I am wrong). I'm wrong constantly. Health is about n=1. There is no randomized controlled metabolic ward study that will fit everyone's dogma. There are a ton of smart people on here, but all are dumb as f*** because they are blinded by their brilliance. People must let go of the science. Start sleeping. Start eating like normal people (without omega 6s/combining fats and starches). Put down the electronics. Turn off your wifi. Go camping. Be with your family. Talk to your neighbors. Play a game. Jump in a cold lake. Intermittent fast. Interval train. Laugh. Die with a legacy.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. I already pretty much have left the matrix. I became my own coach, and while I do like a lot of Ray's idea, I ultimately think for myself. In fact the ONLY reason I believe in the whole pulse+temps thing is because of my own experiences, and not what anyone says (Including Ray) I have been logging my data for almost four months now, and virtually every day that I woke up with 98.6F temp and 85+ bpm pulses (or at least close) also corresponded to being well rested, feeling great. My best day logged in four months was March 31 of this year, and I had incredible motivation more than any other day this whole year so far. 98.6F temp and 90 bpm pulse. Literally that one day was enough to convince me, but I've had other days almost that good as well with similar conditions.

I absolutely agree that the mechanisms of the body are super complex and I definitely make no bones about understanding all the inner workings. That's in fact why I try to reduce it to parameters I DO understand which is - Do I feel good? Do I have good libido? Do I have good motivation? And is there a way I can link those to actual biometrics (in this case pulse and temps?) From what I've seen so far - the answer is yes, it looks like I can, at least to some degree. I'd also like to track CO2 levels for more fun, but capnographs are $1000's. One day I plan to own one though. Basically I treat the body as a Black Box that I don't understand, but I can understand Inputs and Outputs. Inputs - foods I put in the body, exercise, sunlight etc. Outputs - energy, motivation, libido, weight loss or gain, pulses/temps, CO2, etc. Even if you throw out pulses and temps as a factor if you don't believe in them, we can still reduce things to -- Does it make me feel more energetic? Does it make me feel more rested? ETC. I think we can all agree that at the end of the day, those are what people truly care about (myself included). Pulses and temps are just what I use as a middle man to help me get to that point.

 

[Cirion]

sorry if I attacked you. I truly despise the internet. It's a beautiful curse that I have left behind. It's destroying lives through politics and porn. It's divide and conquer and our controllers laugh at us constantly because we join a tribe and strike our neighbors. Take care. May you find peace and health in this life. This will be my last post on this forum.

Lol, all good.

I can't blame you. When I finally cure myself, I'm probably signing off these forums too. Not because I hate anyone necessarily, but I've already wasted enough of my life being hypothyroid, that when I'm finally healed, I plan to live life to the fullest and not spend it on web forums LOL =P

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

Ray Peat is a punk who pushes garbage

Lol Ray is like the nicest, humblest, non-pushiest dude ever.

. People must let go of the science. Start sleeping. Start eating like normal people (without omega 6s/combining fats and starches). Put down the electronics. Turn off your wifi. Go camping. Be with your family. Talk to your neighbors. Play a game. Jump in a cold lake. Intermittent fast. Interval train. Laugh. Die with a legacy.

Sounds like hell, rather be on internet drinking a coke #livinmybestlife

 

[tara]

The word "sugar addiction" I admit is somewhat of a triggering term for me - because there's no such thing as it.

The way I see it, any harmful habit can be addictive. For some people, excessive refined sugar can be compulsive and harmful. And at other times for other people sugars in various forms are a nourishing part of a nutritious diet. Depends on our state, and the balance of other nutrition in our diet, as well as our ability to pay attention and act on our needs.