How/why Does Eating Muffins Made With SFA Cause Visceral Fat Gain, But Not With PUFA?

[Mr. God of Cars]

You're right. PUFA may promote lean tissue (which probably refers to muscle or something) ALONG with fat gain.

 

[Kartoffel]

You're right. PUFA may promote lean tissue (which probably refers to muscle or something) ALONG with fat gain.

Show me one study which shows that PUFA promote lean tissue except this useless piece of junk science.

 

[tankasnowgod]

You're right. PUFA may promote lean tissue (which probably refers to muscle or something) ALONG with fat gain.

Again, even this study shows that most of the SFA group gained lean tissue, as well.

 

[Mr. God of Cars]

Show me one study which shows that PUFA promote lean tissue except this useless piece of junk science.

How do you know this is junk science? (genuine question here.)

 

[Mr. God of Cars]

Again, even this study shows that most of the SFA group gained lean tissue, as well.

So what about the study I mentioned in the comments, showing that PUFA increases 11β-HSD1 much less than saturated fats, which increases 11β-HSD1 much less than trans fats? (11β-HSD1 activates cortisol and, therefore, promotes metabolic syndrome [insulin resistance and central obesity].)

This shouldn't be this way, because Ray Peat claimed coconut oil (which is essentially saturated fat) has anti-glucocorticoid (or anti-11β-HSD1, right?) properties, which I think should be because of saturated fats.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

So what about the study I mentioned in the comments, showing that PUFA increases 11β-HSD1 much less than saturated fats, which increases 11β-HSD1 much less than trans fats? (11β-HSD1 activates cortisol and, therefore, promotes metabolic syndrome [insulin resistance and central obesity].)

This shouldn't be this way, because Ray Peat claimed coconut oil (which is essentially saturated fat) has anti-glucocorticoid (or anti-11β-HSD1, right?) properties, which I think should be because of saturated fats.

Short term effects of stressors are quite often the opposite of their long term effects.

 

[ExCarniv]

Well I don't know about the study but I know lots of people who eat lots of pufa, margerine rapeseed oil etc. And they are muscular and lean while my fats primary come from saturated I try to avoid pufa as much as possible but I have quite a big belly .

Because calories still matters, if you eat at calories maintenance even if you eat PUFAs, you won't gain fat.

I'd avoid Pufas for health reasons, but if you want to lose fat you need to eat below you calories maintenance, don't listen to people here saying that being obese is healthy

 

[Jing]

Because calories still matters, if you eat at calories maintenance even if you eat PUFAs, you won't gain fat.

I'd avoid Pufas for health reasons, but if you want to lose fat you need to eat below you calories maintenance, don't listen to people here saying that being obese is healthy

Yh but even on a calorie deficit these people keep there muscle and lose fat easily, but on a calorie deficit I lose muscle easy and keep the fat easy.
Couple years ago before I found out about peat, I used to not care what I ate , crisps with pufa , mayonnaise, up to 5 grams of fish oil, and I would bulk up and only gain muscle and very minimal fat, since avoiding pufa I find it hard to add muscle without gaining lots of fat.

 

[Mr. God of Cars]

Because calories still matters, if you eat at calories maintenance even if you eat PUFAs, you won't gain fat.

I'd avoid Pufas for health reasons, but if you want to lose fat you need to eat below you calories maintenance, don't listen to people here saying that being obese is healthy

But eating more than you normally burn can increase the metabolic rate by increasing active thyroid hormone, especially if you eat lots of carbs (preferentially sucrose), selenium-, saturated fats (or no fats at all) -, and animal protein-containing foods, besides adding sodium.

 

[Mr. God of Cars]

Short term effects of stressors are quite often the opposite of their long term effects.

Source?

 

[ExCarniv]

But eating more than you normally burn can increase the metabolic rate

It depends of general health, which foods you eat, type of movement you do everyday, no quite true for every person, people here saying "eat lots of junk food, gain 50lbs then you magically will lose that and more because of metabolism"
it won't be obese people if that true.

 

[baccheion]

Yh but even on a calorie deficit these people keep there muscle and lose fat easily, but on a calorie deficit I lose muscle easy and keep the fat easy.
Couple years ago before I found out about peat, I used to not care what I ate , crisps with pufa , mayonnaise, up to 5 grams of fish oil, and I would bulk up and only gain muscle and very minimal fat, since avoiding pufa I find it hard to add muscle without gaining lots of fat.

Is this a deficit with enough protein (1g/lb LBM)?

 

[Jing]

Is this a deficit with enough protein (1g/lb LBM)?

Yh

 

[tankasnowgod]

So what about the study I mentioned in the comments, showing that PUFA increases 11β-HSD1 much less than saturated fats, which increases 11β-HSD1 much less than trans fats? (11β-HSD1 activates cortisol and, therefore, promotes metabolic syndrome [insulin resistance and central obesity].)

This shouldn't be this way, because Ray Peat claimed coconut oil (which is essentially saturated fat) has anti-glucocorticoid (or anti-11β-HSD1, right?) properties, which I think should be because of saturated fats.

What about it? Every study should be looked at on it's own. There's many issues you could break down with the initial study posted in this thread, my only comments are the the results of the study don't even support some of the claims that have been made (including the title of this thread).

I don't even know what second study you are referring to, nor if the results of that study support the conclusions you stated in your comment.

 

[bk_]

I had originally thought something is wrong with this study but I think they may be onto something. I began going through references 16-21 and found this study:
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It studied low-fat (LF), high-fat lard (HF-L), and high-fat safflower (HF-S) oil diets during weeks of re-feeding (after calorie restriction). The rats on the lard diet gained the most fat, the safflower oil was in the middle, and the high carb-diet the least (also with the least PUFA storage). Shocking right?

What’s interesting is the affect on the mitochondria, specifically the omega-6 oil causing proton leakage across the mitochondrion of the hepatic (liver) tissue, thus explaining why the omega-6 oils does not cause as much fat gain:

Basically the authors are showing uncoupling and thermogenesis in the liver occurring with the safflower oil vs lard. Not sure what to make of this...

 

[baccheion]

I had originally thought something is wrong with this study but I think they may be onto something. I began going through references 16-21 and found this study:
Error - Cookies Turned Off

It studied low-fat (LF), high-fat lard (HF-L), and high-fat safflower (HF-S) oil diets during weeks of re-feeding (after calorie restriction). The rats on the lard diet gained the most fat, the safflower oil was in the middle, and the high carb-diet the least (also with the least PUFA storage). Shocking right?

What’s interesting is the affect on the mitochondria, specifically the omega-6 oil causing proton leakage across the mitochondrion of the hepatic (liver) tissue, thus explaining why the omega-6 oils does not cause as much fat gain:

View attachment 15940

Basically the authors are showing uncoupling and thermogenesis in the liver occurring with the safflower oil vs lard. Not sure what to make of this...

Least lipid peroxidation with HF-S?

 

[tankasnowgod]

How do you know this is junk science? (genuine question here.)

Because the researchers didn't make any effort whatsoever to study the actual diet of the participants. Not a metabolic ward study, nor a semi ward. They didn't even ask participants to keep a food diary. Just, "Here, eat these muffins in addition to whatever you normally eat." It doesn't appear they even made sure the participants ate all the muffins they were given.