How To Revert Hypervitaminosis A?

JerkyPerky

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I've come to the conclusion that I'm suffering from hypervitaminosis A, given my reaction to foodstuffs such as liver, eggs, sweet potatoes, spinach, etc. as well as elevated ALT. Eating any of these foods or others with high amounts of any sort of vitamin A worsens my symptoms. It's come to the point where I can't sleep on my left side as my lower-right quadrant is too tight and makes breathing difficult.

What are the nutrients necessary to mobilize retinol from liver tissue?

From what I've gathered, zinc is THE major component to consider, given that it increases the activity of RBP - retinol-binding-protein. If one were to have both supplemental zinc and copper in supply, what amounts and ratio ought to be used?

Are there any other minerals or vitamins to keep track of to drive out all of the excess retinyl esters making my life hell???
 
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JerkyPerky

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Are there any supplements to lower the toxicity of accumulated retinyl esters as I work on depleting them? I've read that vitamin C might have some merit in this area.
 
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JerkyPerky

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Living in Sweden, I've been making sure to take in 2k IE vitamin D daily. Kolekalciferol(D3)

I've always eaten 300-500g broccoli daily so vitamin K it probably not an issue, do you think I could've gotten too much vitamin K?

Vitamin E is something I've never really kept track of or tested for.
 

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JerkyPerky

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Might as well add this to further the legitmacy and interest for the thread, my latest ALT values were almost twice the upper limit of the acceptable ALT.
 

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meatbag

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"For about a month, I took 30-40k IUs daily vitamin a. Might that account for some eye troubles and very dry skin? I read a chinese paper that taurine and zinc help hypervitaminosis a, do you know of anything else, and would transthyretin saturation by A interfere with supplemental t4? As with all of us, i appreciate your dedication and humanity ineffably."

Ray:
"Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/page-11#post-124431
 
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JerkyPerky

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saw this, maybe helpful;
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...tive-against-hypervitaminosis-a-in-rats.9652/

How much supplemental A were you using? Eating liver as well?

That vitamin D level seems kinda high, what all supplements you've been using?

Thanks, taurine seems interesting. I'll look into it.

2k IU vitamin D-3 from Topformula | D-vitamin 50ug, 60 tab
This in addition to smaller amounts from >300 g dairy products(yogurt/milk).

I've always been eating lots of eggs and dairy products, 3-6 eggs daily all my life and also 300-500 g broccoli plus some carrots. Over a period of many, many years this has accumulated I suppose.
What had me really look into this problem was when I tried eating chicken liver, 100g each day for about a week...this really made my life hell and I've just started eliminating all VA from my diet. Hopefully this works.
 
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JerkyPerky

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"For about a month, I took 30-40k IUs daily vitamin a. Might that account for some eye troubles and very dry skin? I read a chinese paper that taurine and zinc help hypervitaminosis a, do you know of anything else, and would transthyretin saturation by A interfere with supplemental t4? As with all of us, i appreciate your dedication and humanity ineffably."

Ray:
"Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/page-11#post-124431


So oxidation is part of the toxicity? What form of Vitamin E is prefered if I were to try this out you think? Seems like vitamin E is pretty complex.

Would vitamin C help as well you think?
 

meatbag

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upload_2018-7-17_18-19-40.png

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100g of chicken liver is only 13,328 IU of vitamin A, so if you did that every day for a week its 93,296 IU. I really do not think this would cause an issue, I know that vitamin A if over consumed can interfere with thyroid function from what I've read from Peat but I'm not sure the amount you're consuming would do that. It seems like vitamin e helps to protect the oxidation of an excessive amount of vitamin a, but I'm not sure there's evidence that the amount you consumed were excessive. Was ALT the only elevated enzyme on the liver panel?

Was it industrial chicken liver? Was it fully cooked? If you're having pain you're lower right side it sounds like it could be an intestinal problem, what symptoms make you think it's a vitamin A issue?

The only supplement you've been taking is Vitamin D? Your level seems pretty high, I remember Peat had mentioned ~50 ng/dL was probably high enough but on a herb doctors episode a higher level might help in some situations.

"
Vitamin D
I use Carlson's, and I think most of the informed people are recommending about 2,000 units per day. John Cannell's site, 'the vitamin D council,' has a newsletter, and is a good way to keep up with the vitamin D research.

I think getting enough vitamin D increases the ability to tan.

During the winter for a couple of months 10,000 units of D should be safe, but it's better to increase calcium and vitamin K, keeping the vitamin D a little lower unless you have the blood level checked occasionally.

Usually 2000 i.u. during the winter will make up for no sunlight. Some people need 5000 iu according to their blood tests, to keep it in the middle of the range.

[Blood test] I think 50 ng/ml is a good goal. The point at which it lowers parathyroid hormone would be the right amount.

[Causes of low vitamin D] I’ve seen some quick improvements from serious symptoms with a supplement of it. I think low thyroid could increase the need for it. It takes lots of summer sun direct exposure of a lot of skin to make enough vitamin D."
>>>https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges#Vitamin_D

Vitamin A
[Soybean oil in supplements] The small amount of oil in a capsule doesn't matter much. Any capsule should have the highest potency in the smallest size, to minimize the junk.

Yes, it's definitely hard to get them coordinated when there's an imbalance in one direction or the other. For several years, when I had an extremely high metabolic rate, I needed 100,000 units per day during sunny weather to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, but when I moved to a cloudy climate, suddenly that much was too much, and suppressed my thyroid. The average person is likely to be hypothyroid, and to need only 5,000 units per day. Avoiding large amounts of carotene, and getting plenty of vitamin B12 to be able to convert any carotene that's in your food, helps to use vitamin A efficiently.

Yes, vitamin A and estrogen are antagonistic, and while estrogen promotes keratinization (shedding of skin cells), vitamin A opposes it. Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid, so it has to be balanced with the thyroid; the combination is effective for increasing progesterone and decreasing estrogen, slowing the turnover of skin cells, and making the skin cells function longer before flaking off. Plugged pores, combined with a local shift toward synthesizing inflammatory substances, foster bacterial infection. Bright light stimulates the production of steroids, and consumes vitamin A very quickly, but when the balance is right, the acne clears up in just a day or two. Cream, butter, eggs, and liver are good sources of vitamin A. When people supplement thyroid and eat liver once or twice a week, their acne and dandruff (and many other problems) usually clear up very quickly. It was acne and dandruff that led me into studying the steroids and thyroid, and in the process I found that they were related to constipation and food sensitivity.

I found that I had an extremely high vitamin A requirement, increased by stress or bright light, and that it related to thyroid function. Usually, thyroid and vitamin A are the supplements that stop acne.

I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same. I use halibut liver oil-derived vitamin A, or retinyl palmitate.

A solution of aspirin in water on the skin helps with the inflammation, and is mildly germicidal.

Estrogen causes the oil glands to atrophy, so the skin doesn't support bacterial growth so well. Topical sulfur's germicidal effect can help, and topical aspirin and caffeine are antiseptic as well as antiinflammatory. One function of vitamin A is to increase progesterone in the skin, and it has to be in balance with thyroid to do that. Another function is to differentiate the skin cells, reducing keratin plugging of the glands.

For several years, I had a similar need to take 100,000 i.u. daily to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, so I read a lot about its effects. The toxic effects of extremely big doses, such as 500,000 to a million i.u., seem to be from either oxidative processes (rancidity) that are prevented by adequate vitamin E, or by antithyroid effects. I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

[Are vitamin A supplements inherently allergenic or are they allergenic just because of modern production processes?] It's something in the manufactured product that's not in the natural.

[Do you know of a good product by the way] I use Nutrisorb-A on my skin.

[On this study] I think it would have been possible for any one of those six co-authors to write an equally worthless paper. The amount of "water-miscible, emulsified, and solid preparations" would have been about 40,000 i.u. per day for an average sized person, but there was no clear definition of what they mean by chronic hypervitaminosis A.

[Eye trouble and very dry skin] Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."


Check out this post, it would seem to suggest that about 10k IU of vitamin A daily would be a good mix with your dose of vitamin D
Vitamin A Blocks The Hypercalcemia From Vitamin D
 

InChristAlone

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View attachment 9924
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100g of chicken liver is only 13,328 IU of vitamin A, so if you did that every day for a week its 93,296 IU. I really do not think this would cause an issue, I know that vitamin A if over consumed can interfere with thyroid function from what I've read from Peat but I'm not sure the amount you're consuming would do that. It seems like vitamin e helps to protect the oxidation of an excessive amount of vitamin a, but I'm not sure there's evidence that the amount you consumed were excessive. Was ALT the only elevated enzyme on the liver panel?

Was it industrial chicken liver? Was it fully cooked? If you're having pain you're lower right side it sounds like it could be an intestinal problem, what symptoms make you think it's a vitamin A issue?

The only supplement you've been taking is Vitamin D? Your level seems pretty high, I remember Peat had mentioned ~50 ng/dL was probably high enough but on a herb doctors episode a higher level might help in some situations.

"
Vitamin D
I use Carlson's, and I think most of the informed people are recommending about 2,000 units per day. John Cannell's site, 'the vitamin D council,' has a newsletter, and is a good way to keep up with the vitamin D research.

I think getting enough vitamin D increases the ability to tan.

During the winter for a couple of months 10,000 units of D should be safe, but it's better to increase calcium and vitamin K, keeping the vitamin D a little lower unless you have the blood level checked occasionally.

Usually 2000 i.u. during the winter will make up for no sunlight. Some people need 5000 iu according to their blood tests, to keep it in the middle of the range.

[Blood test] I think 50 ng/ml is a good goal. The point at which it lowers parathyroid hormone would be the right amount.

[Causes of low vitamin D] I’ve seen some quick improvements from serious symptoms with a supplement of it. I think low thyroid could increase the need for it. It takes lots of summer sun direct exposure of a lot of skin to make enough vitamin D."
>>>https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges#Vitamin_D

Vitamin A
[Soybean oil in supplements] The small amount of oil in a capsule doesn't matter much. Any capsule should have the highest potency in the smallest size, to minimize the junk.

Yes, it's definitely hard to get them coordinated when there's an imbalance in one direction or the other. For several years, when I had an extremely high metabolic rate, I needed 100,000 units per day during sunny weather to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, but when I moved to a cloudy climate, suddenly that much was too much, and suppressed my thyroid. The average person is likely to be hypothyroid, and to need only 5,000 units per day. Avoiding large amounts of carotene, and getting plenty of vitamin B12 to be able to convert any carotene that's in your food, helps to use vitamin A efficiently.

Yes, vitamin A and estrogen are antagonistic, and while estrogen promotes keratinization (shedding of skin cells), vitamin A opposes it. Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid, so it has to be balanced with the thyroid; the combination is effective for increasing progesterone and decreasing estrogen, slowing the turnover of skin cells, and making the skin cells function longer before flaking off. Plugged pores, combined with a local shift toward synthesizing inflammatory substances, foster bacterial infection. Bright light stimulates the production of steroids, and consumes vitamin A very quickly, but when the balance is right, the acne clears up in just a day or two. Cream, butter, eggs, and liver are good sources of vitamin A. When people supplement thyroid and eat liver once or twice a week, their acne and dandruff (and many other problems) usually clear up very quickly. It was acne and dandruff that led me into studying the steroids and thyroid, and in the process I found that they were related to constipation and food sensitivity.

I found that I had an extremely high vitamin A requirement, increased by stress or bright light, and that it related to thyroid function. Usually, thyroid and vitamin A are the supplements that stop acne.

I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same. I use halibut liver oil-derived vitamin A, or retinyl palmitate.

A solution of aspirin in water on the skin helps with the inflammation, and is mildly germicidal.

Estrogen causes the oil glands to atrophy, so the skin doesn't support bacterial growth so well. Topical sulfur's germicidal effect can help, and topical aspirin and caffeine are antiseptic as well as antiinflammatory. One function of vitamin A is to increase progesterone in the skin, and it has to be in balance with thyroid to do that. Another function is to differentiate the skin cells, reducing keratin plugging of the glands.

For several years, I had a similar need to take 100,000 i.u. daily to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, so I read a lot about its effects. The toxic effects of extremely big doses, such as 500,000 to a million i.u., seem to be from either oxidative processes (rancidity) that are prevented by adequate vitamin E, or by antithyroid effects. I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

[Are vitamin A supplements inherently allergenic or are they allergenic just because of modern production processes?] It's something in the manufactured product that's not in the natural.

[Do you know of a good product by the way] I use Nutrisorb-A on my skin.

[On this study] I think it would have been possible for any one of those six co-authors to write an equally worthless paper. The amount of "water-miscible, emulsified, and solid preparations" would have been about 40,000 i.u. per day for an average sized person, but there was no clear definition of what they mean by chronic hypervitaminosis A.

[Eye trouble and very dry skin] Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."


Check out this post, it would seem to suggest that about 10k IU of vitamin A daily would be a good mix with your dose of vitamin D
Vitamin A Blocks The Hypercalcemia From Vitamin D
We need these quotes over on the ''vitamin a elimination diet" threads! Good post!
 
OP
J

JerkyPerky

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
20
View attachment 9924
View attachment 9925

100g of chicken liver is only 13,328 IU of vitamin A, so if you did that every day for a week its 93,296 IU. I really do not think this would cause an issue, I know that vitamin A if over consumed can interfere with thyroid function from what I've read from Peat but I'm not sure the amount you're consuming would do that. It seems like vitamin e helps to protect the oxidation of an excessive amount of vitamin a, but I'm not sure there's evidence that the amount you consumed were excessive. Was ALT the only elevated enzyme on the liver panel?

Was it industrial chicken liver? Was it fully cooked? If you're having pain you're lower right side it sounds like it could be an intestinal problem, what symptoms make you think it's a vitamin A issue?

The only supplement you've been taking is Vitamin D? Your level seems pretty high, I remember Peat had mentioned ~50 ng/dL was probably high enough but on a herb doctors episode a higher level might help in some situations.

"
Vitamin D
I use Carlson's, and I think most of the informed people are recommending about 2,000 units per day. John Cannell's site, 'the vitamin D council,' has a newsletter, and is a good way to keep up with the vitamin D research.

I think getting enough vitamin D increases the ability to tan.

During the winter for a couple of months 10,000 units of D should be safe, but it's better to increase calcium and vitamin K, keeping the vitamin D a little lower unless you have the blood level checked occasionally.

Usually 2000 i.u. during the winter will make up for no sunlight. Some people need 5000 iu according to their blood tests, to keep it in the middle of the range.

[Blood test] I think 50 ng/ml is a good goal. The point at which it lowers parathyroid hormone would be the right amount.

[Causes of low vitamin D] I’ve seen some quick improvements from serious symptoms with a supplement of it. I think low thyroid could increase the need for it. It takes lots of summer sun direct exposure of a lot of skin to make enough vitamin D."
>>>https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges#Vitamin_D

Vitamin A
[Soybean oil in supplements] The small amount of oil in a capsule doesn't matter much. Any capsule should have the highest potency in the smallest size, to minimize the junk.

Yes, it's definitely hard to get them coordinated when there's an imbalance in one direction or the other. For several years, when I had an extremely high metabolic rate, I needed 100,000 units per day during sunny weather to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, but when I moved to a cloudy climate, suddenly that much was too much, and suppressed my thyroid. The average person is likely to be hypothyroid, and to need only 5,000 units per day. Avoiding large amounts of carotene, and getting plenty of vitamin B12 to be able to convert any carotene that's in your food, helps to use vitamin A efficiently.

Yes, vitamin A and estrogen are antagonistic, and while estrogen promotes keratinization (shedding of skin cells), vitamin A opposes it. Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid, so it has to be balanced with the thyroid; the combination is effective for increasing progesterone and decreasing estrogen, slowing the turnover of skin cells, and making the skin cells function longer before flaking off. Plugged pores, combined with a local shift toward synthesizing inflammatory substances, foster bacterial infection. Bright light stimulates the production of steroids, and consumes vitamin A very quickly, but when the balance is right, the acne clears up in just a day or two. Cream, butter, eggs, and liver are good sources of vitamin A. When people supplement thyroid and eat liver once or twice a week, their acne and dandruff (and many other problems) usually clear up very quickly. It was acne and dandruff that led me into studying the steroids and thyroid, and in the process I found that they were related to constipation and food sensitivity.

I found that I had an extremely high vitamin A requirement, increased by stress or bright light, and that it related to thyroid function. Usually, thyroid and vitamin A are the supplements that stop acne.

I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same. I use halibut liver oil-derived vitamin A, or retinyl palmitate.

A solution of aspirin in water on the skin helps with the inflammation, and is mildly germicidal.

Estrogen causes the oil glands to atrophy, so the skin doesn't support bacterial growth so well. Topical sulfur's germicidal effect can help, and topical aspirin and caffeine are antiseptic as well as antiinflammatory. One function of vitamin A is to increase progesterone in the skin, and it has to be in balance with thyroid to do that. Another function is to differentiate the skin cells, reducing keratin plugging of the glands.

For several years, I had a similar need to take 100,000 i.u. daily to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, so I read a lot about its effects. The toxic effects of extremely big doses, such as 500,000 to a million i.u., seem to be from either oxidative processes (rancidity) that are prevented by adequate vitamin E, or by antithyroid effects. I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

[Are vitamin A supplements inherently allergenic or are they allergenic just because of modern production processes?] It's something in the manufactured product that's not in the natural.

[Do you know of a good product by the way] I use Nutrisorb-A on my skin.

[On this study] I think it would have been possible for any one of those six co-authors to write an equally worthless paper. The amount of "water-miscible, emulsified, and solid preparations" would have been about 40,000 i.u. per day for an average sized person, but there was no clear definition of what they mean by chronic hypervitaminosis A.

[Eye trouble and very dry skin] Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."


Check out this post, it would seem to suggest that about 10k IU of vitamin A daily would be a good mix with your dose of vitamin D
Vitamin A Blocks The Hypercalcemia From Vitamin D


Hey again. Thanks a lot for your detailed and thorough response.


____________SAD TIMES____________
I'm mid 20's and my liver is basically failing due to what I think is a hepatic accumulation of X over a period of about 10 years.

Due to the liver complications it's very hard to try and differentiate symtoms from each other. It's gotten to the point where any period of prolonged fasting kills me. A couple of weeks ago I had to come in for a blood sample. By the time I was getting out of there, I had been fasted for around 11 hours. Walking home made the pain in my lower rightt side unbearable. It gets so fkin incredibly sore if I go longer periods without carbs or if the section gets cold - that aches as well.

If I work out too hard and eat a lot of protein, I get parkinson's symtoms with 0 energy and shaky hands due to what I think is ammonia building up. Blood vessels also rupture on tongue and face so that's not fun either. Thrombocytopenia sucks.
________________________________

I'm just adding all the data I have for you guys.
 

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JerkyPerky

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My theory as to what the fk is going on:

I've always had a diet of lots of eggs and broccoli; during my early gym-meathead-days as a student I ate about 10 eggs a day because of it being cheap protein. That's a lot of vitamin A over many years, so that's why my mind goes to that. My family has no history of hemachroma* and my iron intake has not been that high imo.

I've supplemented with various amount of zinc(20-50 mg) constantly for a period of 10 years without balancing with copper since..."HEY, ZINC IS GREAT FOR TEST RIGHT?!".

My diet has been very poor in copper all my life, not a lot of oats, nuts, potatoes or the like, much more protein-rich and fatty foods.

Modification of vitamin A metabolism in rats fed a copper-deficient diet. - PubMed - NCBI

"We have observed in the liver of the rats fed a copper-deficient diet a significantly higher mean level of retinyl esters (148 +/- 37 micrograms/g of liver) and retinol (3.3 +/- 1.4 micrograms/g of liver) compared to the mean concentration of the retinyl esters (53 +/- 8.5 micrograms/g of liver) (p less than 0.01) and retinol (1.4 +/- 0.5 micrograms/g of liver) (p less than 0.01) in controls."


My theory is simply that due to the zinc:copper antagonism I've acquired a copper deficiency causing a hepatic accumulation of either or both iron and retinyl esters.

I don't care which of these it is but I plan to go on a low iron, low VA-diet keeping a zinc:copper-ratio of 10:2 for a while and hope this gets better.

I just want to get better, so does this sound reasonable?
 
Last edited:

sunraiser

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2017
Messages
549
My theory as to what the fk is going on:

I've always had a diet of lots of eggs and broccoli; during my early gym-meathead-days as a student I ate about 10 eggs a day because of it being cheap protein. That's a lot of vitamin A over many years, so that's why my mind goes to that. My family has no history of hemachroma* and my iron intake has not been that high imo.

I've supplemented with various amount of zinc(20-50 mg) constantly for a period of 10 years without balancing with copper since..."HEY, ZINC IS GREAT FOR TEST RIGHT?!".

My diet has been very poor in copper all my life, not a lot of oats, nuts, potatoes or the like, much more protein-rich and fatty foods.

Modification of vitamin A metabolism in rats fed a copper-deficient diet. - PubMed - NCBI

"We have observed in the liver of the rats fed a copper-deficient diet a significantly higher mean level of retinyl esters (148 +/- 37 micrograms/g of liver) and retinol (3.3 +/- 1.4 micrograms/g of liver) compared to the mean concentration of the retinyl esters (53 +/- 8.5 micrograms/g of liver) (p less than 0.01) and retinol (1.4 +/- 0.5 micrograms/g of liver) (p less than 0.01) in controls."


My theory is simply that due to the zinc:copper antagonism I've acquired a copper deficiency causing a hepatic accumulation of either or both iron and retinyl esters.

I don't care which of these it is but I plan to go on a low iron, low VA-diet keeping a zinc:copper-ratio of 10:2 for a while and hope this gets better.

I just want to get better, so does this sound reasonable?

Having a high zinc intake doesn't mean your zinc will be astronomically high while your copper stays low. The body regulates, always. A forum member called DouglasEk had something similar and his ceruloplasmin/copper were low, but so was his zinc. Raising his copper level meant his body allowed his zinc level to raise, too.

There are self regulating mechanisms in place to balance everything in the body so nobody should ever be in too much of a quagmire. Obviously it can feel that way, though!

Before doing anything crazy and trying to outscience your intuitive eating patterns, try adding some iodine as a kelp tablet.

A week of 225mcg~ and observe any changes then report back. For me, eating greens like broccoli or kale (also goitrogens) seem to use up iodine, and so can other vitamin A rich foods. If I supplement iodine then i crave greens basically every day.

The iodine won't immediately make everything better but you can see if small things change over the week - you might find you feel significantly different.

NB: GO SLOW with iodine. You will **** yourself up in a bad way if you're not patient with it. 225mcg is unlikely to cause issues if you have normal selenium intake but if you feel awful on that much then stop taking it and eat some brazil nuts to see if you feel better. You should be fine with your egg intake. Eat how you always have while trying this.
 
Last edited:
OP
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JerkyPerky

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
20
Having a high zinc intake doesn't mean your zinc will be astronomically high while your copper stays low. The body regulates, always. A forum member called DouglasEk had something similar and his ceruloplasmin/copper were low, but so was his zinc. Raising his copper level meant his body allowed his zinc level to raise, too.

There are self regulating mechanisms in place to balance everything in the body so nobody should ever be in too much of a quagmire. Obviously it can feel that way, though!

Before doing anything crazy and trying to outscience your intuitive eating patterns, try adding some iodine as a kelp tablet.

A week of 225mcg~ and observe any changes then report back. For me, eating greens like broccoli or kale (also goitrogens) seem to use up iodine, and so can other vitamin A rich foods. If I supplement iodine then i crave greens basically every day.

The iodine won't immediately make everything better but you can see if small things change over the week - you might find you feel significantly different.

NB: GO SLOW with iodine. You will **** yourself up in a bad way if you're not patient with it. 225mcg is unlikely to cause issues if you have normal selenium intake but if you feel awful on that much then stop taking it and eat some brazil nuts to see if you feel better. You should be fine with your egg intake. Eat how you always have while trying this.

The latest change I've made to my diet was a couple of weeks ago trying to add eggs back in.
I eat 100g of a type of cod (Alaska Pollock) Näringsinnehåll för alaska pollock both in the morning and before bed.
I swapped both portions of cod out for 2 eggs which worsened my symptoms, I'm not sure if it was due to liver stress from the cholesterol/high fat content or vitamin A. I'd rather not try eggs again, 4 a day was very bad for me.

I use iodized salt daily and get some iodine from the cod too I suppose. There's quite a bit of selenium in the fish aswell.

I'm pretty much just eating cod, potatoes, some non-VA-fortified yoghurt and walnuts coupled with either beans or lentils at the moment. I've also been eating sweet potatoes, carrots and broccoli up until now but I'm cutting those out for a while and seeing what happens.

I really don't want to try eggs again, the brazil nuts you mentioned on the other hand could be something to add.
 
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sunraiser

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The latest change I've made to my diet was a couple of weeks ago trying to add eggs back in.
I eat 100g of a type of cod (Alaska Pollock) Näringsinnehåll för alaska pollock both in the morning and before bed.
I swapped both portions of cod out for 2 eggs which worsened my symptoms, I'm not sure if it was due to liver stress from the cholesterol/high fat content or vitamin A. I'd rather not try eggs again, 4 a day was very bad for me.

I use iodized salt daily and get some iodine from the cod too I suppose. There's quite a bit of selenium in the fish aswell.

I'm pretty much just eating cod, potatoes, some non-VA-fortified yoghurt and walnuts coupled with either beans or lentils at the moment. I've also been eating sweet potatoes, carrots and broccoli up until now but I'm cutting those out for a while and seeing what happens.

I really don't want to try eggs again, the brazil nuts you mentioned on the other hand could be something to add.

You're changing too much at a time in my opinion. How on earth are you going to find a comfortable and healthy status quo while you're micromanaging and guessworking your diet to a high degree.

Did you eat the broccoli and eggs because you enjoyed them? If you did then I promise they were doing you some good. Cod is an okay source of iodine but often times you need more. There is sometimes a higher iodine need be it due to infection or chlorine exposure during a time of undereating or low iodine intake.

All I can share are my own experiences which can succinctly be put in two points:

1. Your dietary theorising and fear based approach almost always leads to deeper metabolic problems. Even if short term symptomatic relief is found. Cravings and intuition with some minimal supplementation will get you far closer to something akin to sustainable health.

2. For me, iodine needs are occasionally higher (I'm guessing because of periods of undereating combined with tons of chlorinated water... Years of this). Your diet right now is not sustainable. Greens and vitamin A mean I sometimes need more iodine. Organic dairy is lower in iodine, also so that might be a factor.
If you do nothing else then just remove the broccoli for a week and eat how you used to!! I'm sure you'll feel better.

This forum is full of sick and orthorexic people. Don't forget that. It does not discount their humanity and intelligence but it certainly skews the view of what's healthy with regard to diet and lifestyle - sickness aligns to a fear based approach sadly. Health does not.
 
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sunraiser

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Also, aside from broccoli where is your dietary calcium coming from?!

***eta nvm just read your other message
 
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