How To Reduce Serotonin

[Constatine]

I'm trying to compile a relatively complete list of ways to reduce serotonin along with each way's effectiveness. What are all the ways of reducing serotonin you know of and how effective do you believe the method to be?

 

[Ron J]

I want to know as well. I've read that when you lower serotonin, the receptors become more sensitive to compensate for the reduction. Perhaps altering the receptors is a better way. Or ways to increase dopamine, although, I don't know if increasing dopamine might decrease the sensitivity of dopamine receptors.

 

[sladerunner69]

Personally i d9nt fully understand the prescripton to lower serotonin when there is so much research to suggest that serotonin is the "happy" chemical. My friend qho uses 5htp to increase serotonin production says he feels great all day. I think stress hormones may contribute to degenerative conditions when being consistently relied upon, but generally are useful because they play a role in human psychology that gives us emotional drive and energy and important feelings and sensations. When i follow low serotonin protocol I will feel sometimes very borred and emotionless, like nothing in the world matters to me at all.

If serotonin was simply a bad thing, then why wouod it exist at all? It has to serve a purpose physiologically, towards the maintenence of good health.

 

[Pointless]

Oftentimes lowering serotonin also lowers dopamine, and raising serotonin raises dopamine. This can explain a lot of the benefits that people receive from serotonergic therapies. Keep in mind that stuff like 5-htp is very hit or miss and can be a disaster for some people. I used to get hypomanic and very euphoric from 5-htp but it doesnt affect me like that anymore (it gives me abdominal pain).

I think the best anti-serotonin therapies would maintain decent levels of dopamine without any withdrawals or receptor up/down regulation. These would be Cyproheptadine (debatable but works great for me) and maybe lysine. Ritanserin's also works great but gives me headaches. I still use it occasionally if I need a little bit more.

BCAAs are great but cause lethargy and lack of motivation. Possibly can be combined with other aminos to prevent lowering dopamine.

Methylene blue, Lisuride, vitex are some dopaminergic therapies that could reduce serotonin for some, but for someone with endotoxin or other serotonin overload issues, these are likely to make it worse. I believe that Lisuride has caused me some dopamine downregulation or serotonergic effects.

I'm still testing the waters on Metergoline. I have no reason to experiment with it much right now, but this is worth a look.

Riboflavin and activated charcoal can lower endotoxin which can reduce serotonin. But I haven't experimented much with that.

Of course thyroid is essential.

Psychological therapies or relaxation are definitely worth a closer look. Not very effective for someone with serious serotonergic depression or bowel issues, but reducing learned helplessness and providing an enriching and supportive environment are essential adjuncts to any medicine. Meditation OTOH usually gives me gut pain which I associate with higher serotonin. Studies are ambivalent about meditation's effect on serotonin.

 

[prank]

Personally i d9nt fully understand the prescripton to lower serotonin when there is so much research to suggest that serotonin is the "happy" chemical. My friend qho uses 5htp to increase serotonin production says he feels great all day. I think stress hormones may contribute to degenerative conditions when being consistently relied upon, but generally are useful because they play a role in human psychology that gives us emotional drive and energy and important feelings and sensations. When i follow low serotonin protocol I will feel sometimes very borred and emotionless, like nothing in the world matters to me at all.

If serotonin was simply a bad thing, then why wouod it exist at all? It has to serve a purpose physiologically, towards the maintenence of good health.

haiduit speculated in a recent post that aging may be socially mediated, and perhaps this could be extended to say that raising serotonin is desirable/socially mediated when creativity and higher mechanisms of intelligence have become superfluous.
Simplify the system for a less volatile state of wellbeing at the expensive of generative potential.
I guess antagonizing serotonin is like turning on expert mode--everything becomes consequential.

 

[Constatine]

Personally i d9nt fully understand the prescripton to lower serotonin when there is so much research to suggest that serotonin is the "happy" chemical. My friend qho uses 5htp to increase serotonin production says he feels great all day. I think stress hormones may contribute to degenerative conditions when being consistently relied upon, but generally are useful because they play a role in human psychology that gives us emotional drive and energy and important feelings and sensations. When i follow low serotonin protocol I will feel sometimes very borred and emotionless, like nothing in the world matters to me at all.

If serotonin was simply a bad thing, then why wouod it exist at all? It has to serve a purpose physiologically, towards the maintenence of good health.

Serotonin is not simply a bad thing and does have its function but just in the same way cortisol has its function. Serotonin does not itself create emotions at all. Emotions are more complicated than specific neurotransmitter levels. Rather serotonin is a dulling agent to the senses (and thoughts). It is heavily involved in learned helplessness, punishment, avoidance behavior, and other such things. Serotonin is very bad for one's health and longevity and in ideal conditions should be kept low. SSRI's and other pro serotonin drugs help people through other mechanisms, serotonin increases are an undesirable side effect. Also ever been in a very stressful situation for a very long time and noticed that your emotions and senses went dull...thats serotonin at work. It is a defensive mechanism. One way I like to think of it is having high serotonin is like watching your life through a movie while having low serotonin is like...well living your life. So in a way serotonin has an inverse relationship with immersion. Note this last claim is just my opinion, I don't have a lot of evidence to back it up.

 

[member 2106]

SSRI's and other pro serotonin drugs help people through other mechanisms, serotonin increases are an undesirable side effect.

Do you think taking SSRIs would be safer if one were to strive to keep serotonin down at the same time, by supplementing lysine for example? That would you'd get the good effects and not too much of an increase in serotonin.

 

[Constatine]

Do you think taking SSRIs would be safer if one were to strive to keep serotonin down at the same time, by supplementing lysine for example? That would you'd get the good effects and not too much of an increase in serotonin.

I would never recommend SSRI's to anyone as they are notoriously dangerous and I don't think you can naturally compensate for the increased serotonin. If you are facing depression my advice is to focus on increasing neurosteroids and dopamine receptor density- dopamine levels. In my experience the best thing for mood is increased androgens.

 

[Sucrates]

On the effects of serotonin on mood and energetic metabolism I’d suggest reading this paper

Is serotonin an upper or a downer? The evolution of the serotonergic system and its role in depression and the antidepressant response

From my notes:

“In rodent models of shock there is an increase in serotonin, if and when this shock stimulus is escaped by the animal the transmission of serotonin will be interrupted and no depressive symptoms will be observed. However in cases where rodents were subjected to inescapable shock this serotonin transmission is not interrupted and depressive symptoms are generated. There is some debate about what is going on in the case of inescapable shock learned helplessness, while some might interpret it as a solely degenerative or incapacitating effect on the organism, this paper sees it as an adaptive attempt to escape the environmental stress by altering brain metabolism.



The paper makes a number of different arguments for serotonin and energy homeostasis effects on various parts of the brain correlating to symptoms of melancholia in humans and animals. The shrinkage of the part of the brain called the hippocampus during depression could be an example of this energetic modulation, that the resources are allocated to problem-solving and literal brain growth and regeneration is energetically limited. The final point I’ll mention from this article is the statement that antidepressant medications are seen to only reduce symptoms to the degree that they induce a response by the brain which suppresses the allocation of energy devoted to cognition.”

--

To lower serotonin’s effects without blocking it you would need to (1) lower production in the GU tract (where it’s picked up by platelets), (2) lower release by platelets (via “stress”), inhibit the inflammatory cascade (see 50% of supplement threads on this forum), and/or interrupt shock or learned helplessness states.



http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674%2815%2900248-2

This list was posted to one of the facebook groups a while back:

 

[member 2106]

I don't think you can naturally compensate for the increased serotonin.

I don't see why this wouldn't in theory be possible.

I'm still undecided about SSRIs. Anecdotally, I know a lot of people who have found them very helpful, bit they definitely have a bad reputation on here. I guess I need to see more studies confirming why they are so bad, and what they are doing to make things so bad. Although clearly nobody had a complete understanding of how they work.

 

[lollipop]

Can lower serotonin:
Thyroid/t3
Aspirin
Caffeine
Charcoal
Carrots
Bamboo shoots
Salt
Sugar
Progesterone
Antibiotics
Dopamine
Phenylalanine
Taurine
Glycine/gelatin
Tyrosine
Cyproheptadine/ periactin
Tianeptine
Bromocriptine
Vit d
Calcium
Pregnenolone 30-50mg a day
Phenibut
BCAA's
Ondansetron/ zofran
Lysine
Ginger
LSD
Niacinamide
Benadryl
Agmatine
Co2
Methylene Blue
Adequate protein
Acetazolamide
DMT
L-theanine
Black tea
Psilocybin mushrooms
Lisuride
Zinc
Medium and short chain fatty acids

Can increase serotonin;
Hypothyroidism
PUFAs
Starches and fibres
Too much b6
Wheat based foods
Anything that irritates bowels
Sunburn
Long term starvation
Endotoxin/ inflammation of intestine
Bananas, tomatoes, pineapple
Light deficiency
High Tryptophan
Low testosterone
High Nitric Oxide levels
Elevated cortisol
Protein deficiency
Too much water
MDMA
Whey protein
Estrogen

Signs of high serotonin;
Loose bowels
Autism
IBS
Lots of sweating
Anxiety
Nauseousness
Insomnia
Teeth grinding
Reduced appetite for salt
Asthma
Anorexia
Depression
High blood pressure
Irritability
Aggression

Nice post @watersoluble

 

[Ron J]

Can lower serotonin:
Thyroid/t3
Aspirin
Caffeine
Charcoal
Carrots
Bamboo shoots
Salt
Sugar
Progesterone
Antibiotics
Dopamine
Phenylalanine
Taurine
Glycine/gelatin
Tyrosine
Cyproheptadine/ periactin
Tianeptine
Bromocriptine
Vit d
Calcium
Pregnenolone 30-50mg a day
Phenibut
BCAA's
Ondansetron/ zofran
Lysine
Ginger
LSD
Niacinamide
Benadryl
Agmatine
Co2
Methylene Blue
Adequate protein
Acetazolamide
DMT
L-theanine
Black tea
Psilocybin mushrooms
Lisuride
Zinc
Medium and short chain fatty acids

Can increase serotonin;
Hypothyroidism
PUFAs
Starches and fibres
Too much b6
Wheat based foods
Anything that irritates bowels
Sunburn
Long term starvation
Endotoxin/ inflammation of intestine
Bananas, tomatoes, pineapple
Light deficiency
High Tryptophan
Low testosterone
High Nitric Oxide levels
Elevated cortisol
Protein deficiency
Too much water
MDMA
Whey protein
Estrogen

Signs of high serotonin;
Loose bowels
Autism
IBS
Lots of sweating
Anxiety
Nauseousness
Insomnia
Teeth grinding
Reduced appetite for salt
Asthma
Anorexia
Depression
High blood pressure
Irritability
Aggression

I've been taking B6 to increase dopamine; I think Ray Peat wrote that 10 mg is a big dose, but what's the most you can take before it starts to increase serotonin?

 

[Sucrates]

I've been taking B6 to increase dopamine; I think Ray Peat wrote that 10 mg is a big dose, but what's the most you can take before it starts to increase serotonin?

It was I who posted those, logged in with an old account that was locked by accident, that list was posted on one of the RP facebook groups. I'm not sure at what point B6 becomes a problem, sorry.

 

[lollipop]

It was I who posted those, logged in with an old account that was locked by accident, that list was posted on one of the RP facebook groups. I'm not sure at what point B6 becomes a problem, sorry.

Then, great post @Sucrates

 

[Constatine]

Can lower serotonin:
Thyroid/t3
Aspirin
Caffeine
Charcoal
Carrots
Bamboo shoots
Salt
Sugar
Progesterone
Antibiotics
Dopamine
Phenylalanine
Taurine
Glycine/gelatin
Tyrosine
Cyproheptadine/ periactin
Tianeptine
Bromocriptine
Vit d
Calcium
Pregnenolone 30-50mg a day
Phenibut
BCAA's
Ondansetron/ zofran
Lysine
Ginger
LSD
Niacinamide
Benadryl
Agmatine
Co2
Methylene Blue
Adequate protein
Acetazolamide
DMT
L-theanine
Black tea
Psilocybin mushrooms
Lisuride
Zinc
Medium and short chain fatty acids

Can increase serotonin;
Hypothyroidism
PUFAs
Starches and fibres
Too much b6
Wheat based foods
Anything that irritates bowels
Sunburn
Long term starvation
Endotoxin/ inflammation of intestine
Bananas, tomatoes, pineapple
Light deficiency
High Tryptophan
Low testosterone
High Nitric Oxide levels
Elevated cortisol
Protein deficiency
Too much water
MDMA
Whey protein
Estrogen

Signs of high serotonin;
Loose bowels
Autism
IBS
Lots of sweating
Anxiety
Nauseousness
Insomnia
Teeth grinding
Reduced appetite for salt
Asthma
Anorexia
Depression
High blood pressure
Irritability
Aggression

Fantastic!

 

[sladerunner69]

Serotonin is not simply a bad thing and does have its function but just in the same way cortisol has its function. Serotonin does not itself create emotions at all. Emotions are more complicated than specific neurotransmitter levels. Rather serotonin is a dulling agent to the senses (and thoughts). It is heavily involved in learned helplessness, punishment, avoidance behavior, and other such things. Serotonin is very bad for one's health and longevity and in ideal conditions should be kept low. SSRI's and other pro serotonin drugs help people through other mechanisms, serotonin increases are an undesirable side effect. Also ever been in a very stressful situation for a very long time and noticed that your emotions and senses went dull...thats serotonin at work. It is a defensive mechanism. One way I like to think of it is having high serotonin is like watching your life through a movie while having low serotonin is like...well living your life. So in a way serotonin has an inverse relationship with immersion. Note this last claim is just my opinion, I don't have a lot of evidence to back it up.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. Would watching your life through a movie be such a bad thing? I have sometimes heard people exclaim that they feel like they are in a movie when they are having a great time and enjoying themselves thoroughly. Or maybe there is a distinction between life feeling like a movie and feeling like you are looking through a movie? Would you describe high serotonin as having a depersonalizing effect?

 

[Quality]

Personally i d9nt fully understand the prescripton to lower serotonin when there is so much research to suggest that serotonin is the "happy" chemical. My friend qho uses 5htp to increase serotonin production says he feels great all day. I think stress hormones may contribute to degenerative conditions when being consistently relied upon, but generally are useful because they play a role in human psychology that gives us emotional drive and energy and important feelings and sensations. When i follow low serotonin protocol I will feel sometimes very borred and emotionless, like nothing in the world matters to me at all.

If serotonin was simply a bad thing, then why wouod it exist at all? It has to serve a purpose physiologically, towards the maintenence of good health.

Being overly happy sucks the motivation out of people, hence the blunt affect/anhedonia alot of people experience while on SSRI's.

 

[Sucrates]

Then, great post @Sucrates

Joe Davis was the maker of the list. I'll take the glory though!

 

[mayweatherking]

Just dont eat muscle meat pretty much?

 

[PUTFOT]

Do dopamine agonist / serotonin antagonist drugs have a positive effect after cessation (increased baseline dopamine and dopamine receptors and decreased baseline serotonin and serotonin receptors)?