how to minimise potential harm to newborn from vaccines?

[ddjd]

just to give some context, we're based in Germany so i don't think the laws are as strict as the USA and i think there's only around 20 vaccines compared to 74(!!??) in the usa. none the less im very concerned about short and long term health effects on my child.

any advice/ suggestions particularly from germans appreciated

 

[postman]

Just don't take them?

 

[Lollipop2]

If it is impossible to avoid, can you space them out over years? Also, can you homeschool and thus avoid them?

 

[tankasnowgod]

just to give some context, we're based in Germany so i don't think the laws are as strict as the USA and i think there's only around 20 vaccines compared to 74(!!??) in the usa. none the less im very concerned about short and long term health effects on my child.

any advice/ suggestions particularly from germans appreciated

It used to be 4-8 in the US prior to 1986. Even 20 is an exponential increase in just a few short decades.

 

[pro marker]

It used to be 4-8 in the US prior to 1986. Even 20 is an exponential increase in just a few short decades.

they get 20?!??!!? what??!?
and here i am completely messed up after only 4 or 5.

just to give some context, we're based in Germany so i don't think the laws are as strict as the USA and i think there's only around 20 vaccines compared to 74(!!??) in the usa. none the less im very concerned about short and long term health effects on my child.

any advice/ suggestions particularly from germans appreciated

i know this might sound childish or immature but it is your duty as a parent to punch any sick **** who even comes close to your child with a needle. dont let your kids suffer.

 

[tankasnowgod]

just to give some context, we're based in Germany so i don't think the laws are as strict as the USA and i think there's only around 20 vaccines compared to 74(!!??) in the usa. none the less im very concerned about short and long term health effects on my child.

any advice/ suggestions particularly from germans appreciated

An addendum to my earlier comment...... what "laws" are you speaking of?

As of this moment, I don't believe there is a single "law" in the US that requires anyone get a vaccine. In truth, there probably never will be. However...... there are many ways that people are convinced to take a shot, or give one to their children. An example of this would be schools "requiring" vaccinations of children to attend. Even then, their are probably ways around this. But the vast majority of people will go along with giving kids the shot. They may even harass parents that don't give a shot to their kids (apparently oblivious to the even the official explanations of how vaccines are supposed to work).

If you search the forum, there is plenty of talk of how to minimize negative effects of vaccines.

However, there is always another way. Maybe research the laws and requirements in your area. Figure out the actual vaccine schedule. Consider bribing your pedestrian. Or school principal. Or forging a signature on a card. Consider reorganizing your life so that your child never has to take a vaccine.

How far would you go to prevent harm to your newborn child? Most parents would probably say they would go to the ends of the earth. A few of them might actually mean it.

 

[gaze]

An addendum to my earlier comment...... what "laws" are you speaking of?

As of this moment, I don't believe there is a single "law" in the US that requires anyone get a vaccine. In truth, there probably never will be. However...... there are many ways that people are convinced to take a shot, or give one to their children. An example of this would be schools "requiring" vaccinations of children to attend. Even then, their are probably ways around this. But the vast majority of people will go along with giving kids the shot. They may even harass parents that don't give a shot to their kids (apparently oblivious to the even the official explanations of how vaccines are supposed to work).

If you search the forum, there is plenty of talk of how to minimize negative effects of vaccines.

However, there is always another way. Maybe research the laws and requirements in your area. Figure out the actual vaccine schedule. Consider bribing your pedestrian. Or school principal. Or forging a signature on a card. Consider reorganizing your life so that your child never has to take a vaccine.

How far would you go to prevent harm to your newborn child? Most parents would probably say they would go to the ends of the earth. A few of them might actually mean it.

there is 0 way to get around it in many states. There is no religious exemption anymore in various states such as california. I think allergic reactions is the only way out of it

 

[postman]

there is 0 way to get around it in many states. There is no religious exemption anymore in various states such as california. I think allergic reactions is the only way out of it

Homeschooling is still legal in America.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Not in Germany. But one might manage to delay vaccines until they are 7, maybe delay going to school by one year which is good for them anyway, so the vaccines happen at 8. Of course some schools might be vaxx free.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

How far would you go to prevent harm to your newborn child? Most parents would probably say they would go to the ends of the earth. A few of them might actually mean it.

What people say and what people do are two completely different things. How many people would you think state obedience as their highest value? How many people do you suppose would torture an innocent man to death solely because an authority figure said so, even though it would destroy their own psyche and probably land them in prison for murder? You might say none. In truth, most would. The state does not lock you up for your entire childhood to teach you to speak the truth or take care of your kids. They lock you up to teach you reflexive obedience to authority, and after 10000 hours of that it does not matter what these people say.

Milgram Shock Experiment: Summary, Results, & Ethics

Stanley Milgram, a psychologist at Yale University, carried out one of the most famous studies of obedience in psychology.

www.simplypsychology.org

 

[Lee Simeon]

they get 20?!??!!? what??!?
and here i am completely messed up after only 4 or 5.


i know this might sound childish or immature but it is your duty as a parent to punch any sick **** who even comes close to your child with a needle. dont let your kids suffer.

How do you know you are messed up after childhood vaccinations?

 

[tankasnowgod]

there is 0 way to get around it in many states. There is no religious exemption anymore in various states such as california. I think allergic reactions is the only way out of it

There is ALWAYS a way around it. These are rules made by men, not the creator of the balanced universe. The so called "elites" leave themselves an option, and that option is always open to the people. It may not be easy or obvious, but there is always a way.

Again, none of these things are "laws." And did you read the mandates/guidelines/code regarding California? If not, how can you state that there is zero way to get around it? Aren't Homeschooling and moving to another state options? Outright defiance? Bribery and Forgery?

Not necessarily easy or obvious or a route most people would take, sure. But far from zero way around it.

 

[pro marker]

How do you know you are messed up after childhood vaccinations?

because my health went to ***t after i accidentally got two tetanus shots over the course of two days

 

[gaze]

There is ALWAYS a way around it. These are rules made by men, not the creator of the balanced universe. The so called "elites" leave themselves an option, and that option is always open to the people. It may not be easy or obvious, but there is always a way.

Again, none of these things are "laws." And did you read the mandates/guidelines/code regarding California? If not, how can you state that there is zero way to get around it? Aren't Homeschooling and moving to another state options? Outright defiance? Bribery and Forgery?

Not necessarily easy or obvious or a route most people would take, sure. But far from zero way around it.

oh yea i was talking about going to school, not in general. California took away all personal exemptions and the medical authority gets the final say for a child to go to school. of course homeschooling is an option, or moving, but peoples jobs don't often allow that. I personally would rather get a couple shots like the MMR to be able to attend school then be homeschooled. school was some of the best days of my life, i think friendship in those settings is very valuable for a child growing up

 

[pro marker]

oh yea i was talking about going to school, not in general. California took away all personal exemptions and the medical authority gets the final say for a child to go to school. of course homeschooling is an option, or moving, but peoples jobs don't often allow that. I personally would rather get a couple shots like the MMR to be able to attend school then be homeschooled. school was some of the best days of my life, i think friendship in those settings is very valuable for a child growing up

school was hell for me, everyday of it. but i cant even imagine how bad it would be if i was homeschooled. the kids at school were the only people i met, even though i hated them it was better than nothing. over protecting your child is a bad idea. you just gotta drill it into your kids head everyday the the teachers are liars and hope for the best.

 

[gaze]

school was hell for me, everyday of it. but i cant even imagine how bad it would be if i was homeschooled. the kids at school were the only people i met, even though i hated them it was better than nothing. over protecting your child is a bad idea. you just gotta drill it into your kids head everyday the the teachers are liars and hope for the best.

yea unfortunately school comes with a nasty culture as well, and I certainly would hate school If I felt like I didn't really fit in. Popularity contests, pressure to perform in the class, authoritarian teachers, the bad lunch food, the pressure to do drugs at the age of 14, it all has some very bad effects. And certainly those would be worse for children who feel like they don't really fit in. But your right, there's only so much a parent can do, at the end of the day a child has to be involved in a lot of social interaction to develop. maybe there's some private schools out there that are organized in a much more beneficial way, although I have no experience with it myself.

 

[tokimaturi]

I was faced with that same problem recently. In the end I decided against any vaccinations. I'm not really against the idea of immunisations. While it might not be the best for our species, I reckon if everyone else is getting the protection, then it has no evolutionary significance to leave myself out. Now this applies only theoretically to immunisations that work without negative side effects. Which is something I think might some day exist but doesn't yet. I've yet to find compelling evidence that vaccinations for are viable except maybe some for smallpox vaccination which was applied intradermally. Like Dr Peat said, there is a big difference in the immune reaction to intradermal and subcutaneous or intramuscular vaccinations.

First to answer your question according to the research the research I did. I'm apologise for the lack of sources as I'm short on time at the moment, I recommend you google duckduckgo or startpage any claims I make as you should have plenty of results.

The number one thing is to never get your child vaccinated when he has even mild symptoms of being ill. The risk for vaccine related complications grow greatly when you're vaccinated while sick (also don't get further vaccinations if you've previously had clear negative effects from them as you might have an allergy for something in them). The next biggest thing is to delay them as long as possible and space them apart. The risk of complications again grows bigger the younger the child is and the more vaccines are given at once or at short intervals. There are many vaccinated diseases that aren't really a problem in the first year(s) of the child's life. There's also been some talk of raising the child's vitamin C levels before taking the vaccinations to avoid side effects. I didn't really see any factual evidence for it except some statistics correlating mortality for now vaccinated diseases with vitamin C deficiency. But that could just as well mean that nutritional deficiencies or malnutrition in general corresponds to higher mortality of all causes. But I suppose there is no harm in taking some vitamin C. Do note that to raise your vitamin C saturation you should take small doses of vitamin C several times a day (even hourly) rather than a large daily dose.

If you have the option to opt-out of vaccinations I recommend that you at least research some statistics for the mortality levels of each particular vaccinated disease just before the introduction of the vaccine, the seriousness of the disease and the treatment and outcomes and opt-out of the ones you deem unnecessary. For example, the mortality for rotavirus being so small and seeming of consisting of just dehydration and the lack of reacting to it quickly enough, the arguments for the vaccine seem quite far-fetched. For our generation the vaccination for varicella feels quite unnecessary but so did the vaccination for measles for our parents or grandparents. These are diseases every single person had as a child and the mortality rate in developed countries were close to zero even before vaccinations.

These viewpoints are important if you consider vaccinations to be harmful but potentially life-saving. And while vaccines undoubtedly prevent infections, it's not getting the disease we should be worried about but the outcome. The reason I decided against all vaccines as two-fold. First, as I researched as to what vaccinations to forego based on their prevalence in unvaccinated populations (as considering vaccinated populations I would simply be relying on the total vaccination levels to give protection from infections) and their seriousness (basically complication/mortality rates in developed countries). According to this I decided against vaccine after vaccine after finding actual real studies and statistics. For some diseases it was quite difficult to find sufficient research to make an educated decision. However, after finding pretty much all the vaccines for which I did find sufficient research to seem quite unnecessary I began to doubt necessity for vaccinations in general. At the very least, for the diseases I didn't find enough research against immunisation, I also didn't find enough research for. So considering the harm that we know vaccines to have, not to mention the extent of harm that we can only speculate about, I chose to opt-out of vaccinations completely.

But the second reason that cemented my decision was even more convincing. Like I said, we should be worried out the outcome of the disease and not contracting it. Looking at mortality rates for diseases spanning beyond the start of vaccinations, the rates have come down for a long time as the level of sanitation and nutrition have been rising. And from the charts you really couldn't guess when the vaccinations started. In other words, you can't see the vaccinations having had any effect on the mortality from the disease one way or the other. Also the outbreaks of diseases on vaccinated populations seem to have mortality rates in corresponding ratio to the vaccination rates (e.g. in 90% vaccinated population, ~90% of the deaths are vaccinated people). This seems to imply it's likely that if you were to die of the disease unvaccinated, you will likely contract and die of the disease vaccinated (please correct me if I'm drawing too big conclusions).

Personally I am more concerned of the causes of our failing health, generation by generation than low mortality diseases for the vaccination of which there seems to be no convincing arguments except big profit for whoever sells them. Even if you would assume that vaccines work and are without any side effects, there are other ways to statistically improve your child's odds at life. Such as learning first aid (especially as it pertains to children), making sure your smoke detectors are working and placed correctly, teaching your child to swim, moving to a better neighbourhood, spending more time with your child, striving to be a functional family (as opposed to dysfunctional), driving more carefully, buying a safer baby seat and so on and so forth. But taking your child for vaccinations is just much more simple and low effort way to kind of outsource your responsibilities for a peace of mind.

One more point of view I'd like to bring up is the epigenetic prospects of vaccination. I hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries by directly quoting Dr Peat's May newsletter on coronavirus:

"Focus on the induction of antibodies by vaccines to define immunity has led to a dangerous disregard for the basic facts of health. [...] The consequences of incorporating the spike protein of the virus into our genetic repertoire are hard to imagine. The mindless activation of our huge epigenetic system of retroelements, with no knowable benefits, should be stopped."

In the end, it is your responsibility and privilege to decide for what you think the best for your child. I hope I have given you some food for thought so you can decide just how safe you want to play it with immunisations.

 

[Lollipop2]

I was faced with that same problem recently. In the end I decided against any vaccinations. I'm not really against the idea of immunisations. While it might not be the best for our species, I reckon if everyone else is getting the protection, then it has no evolutionary significance to leave myself out. Now this applies only theoretically to immunisations that work without negative side effects. Which is something I think might some day exist but doesn't yet. I've yet to find compelling evidence that vaccinations for are viable except maybe some for smallpox vaccination which was applied intradermally. Like Dr Peat said, there is a big difference in the immune reaction to intradermal and subcutaneous or intramuscular vaccinations.

First to answer your question according to the research the research I did. I'm apologise for the lack of sources as I'm short on time at the moment, I recommend you google duckduckgo or startpage any claims I make as you should have plenty of results.

The number one thing is to never get your child vaccinated when he has even mild symptoms of being ill. The risk for vaccine related complications grow greatly when you're vaccinated while sick (also don't get further vaccinations if you've previously had clear negative effects from them as you might have an allergy for something in them). The next biggest thing is to delay them as long as possible and space them apart. The risk of complications again grows bigger the younger the child is and the more vaccines are given at once or at short intervals. There are many vaccinated diseases that aren't really a problem in the first year(s) of the child's life. There's also been some talk of raising the child's vitamin C levels before taking the vaccinations to avoid side effects. I didn't really see any factual evidence for it except some statistics correlating mortality for now vaccinated diseases with vitamin C deficiency. But that could just as well mean that nutritional deficiencies or malnutrition in general corresponds to higher mortality of all causes. But I suppose there is no harm in taking some vitamin C. Do note that to raise your vitamin C saturation you should take small doses of vitamin C several times a day (even hourly) rather than a large daily dose.

If you have the option to opt-out of vaccinations I recommend that you at least research some statistics for the mortality levels of each particular vaccinated disease just before the introduction of the vaccine, the seriousness of the disease and the treatment and outcomes and opt-out of the ones you deem unnecessary. For example, the mortality for rotavirus being so small and seeming of consisting of just dehydration and the lack of reacting to it quickly enough, the arguments for the vaccine seem quite far-fetched. For our generation the vaccination for varicella feels quite unnecessary but so did the vaccination for measles for our parents or grandparents. These are diseases every single person had as a child and the mortality rate in developed countries were close to zero even before vaccinations.

These viewpoints are important if you consider vaccinations to be harmful but potentially life-saving. And while vaccines undoubtedly prevent infections, it's not getting the disease we should be worried about but the outcome. The reason I decided against all vaccines as two-fold. First, as I researched as to what vaccinations to forego based on their prevalence in unvaccinated populations (as considering vaccinated populations I would simply be relying on the total vaccination levels to give protection from infections) and their seriousness (basically complication/mortality rates in developed countries). According to this I decided against vaccine after vaccine after finding actual real studies and statistics. For some diseases it was quite difficult to find sufficient research to make an educated decision. However, after finding pretty much all the vaccines for which I did find sufficient research to seem quite unnecessary I began to doubt necessity for vaccinations in general. At the very least, for the diseases I didn't find enough research against immunisation, I also didn't find enough research for. So considering the harm that we know vaccines to have, not to mention the extent of harm that we can only speculate about, I chose to opt-out of vaccinations completely.

But the second reason that cemented my decision was even more convincing. Like I said, we should be worried out the outcome of the disease and not contracting it. Looking at mortality rates for diseases spanning beyond the start of vaccinations, the rates have come down for a long time as the level of sanitation and nutrition have been rising. And from the charts you really couldn't guess when the vaccinations started. In other words, you can't see the vaccinations having had any effect on the mortality from the disease one way or the other. Also the outbreaks of diseases on vaccinated populations seem to have mortality rates in corresponding ratio to the vaccination rates (e.g. in 90% vaccinated population, ~90% of the deaths are vaccinated people). This seems to imply it's likely that if you were to die of the disease unvaccinated, you will likely contract and die of the disease vaccinated (please correct me if I'm drawing too big conclusions).

Personally I am more concerned of the causes of our failing health, generation by generation than low mortality diseases for the vaccination of which there seems to be no convincing arguments except big profit for whoever sells them. Even if you would assume that vaccines work and are without any side effects, there are other ways to statistically improve your child's odds at life. Such as learning first aid (especially as it pertains to children), making sure your smoke detectors are working and placed correctly, teaching your child to swim, moving to a better neighbourhood, spending more time with your child, striving to be a functional family (as opposed to dysfunctional), driving more carefully, buying a safer baby seat and so on and so forth. But taking your child for vaccinations is just much more simple and low effort way to kind of outsource your responsibilities for a peace of mind.

One more point of view I'd like to bring up is the epigenetic prospects of vaccination. I hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries by directly quoting Dr Peat's May newsletter on coronavirus:

"Focus on the induction of antibodies by vaccines to define immunity has led to a dangerous disregard for the basic facts of health. [...] The consequences of incorporating the spike protein of the virus into our genetic repertoire are hard to imagine. The mindless activation of our huge epigenetic system of retroelements, with no knowable benefits, should be stopped."

In the end, it is your responsibility and privilege to decide for what you think the best for your child. I hope I have given you some food for thought so you can decide just how safe you want to play it with immunisations.

Fantastic post.

 

[pro marker]

I was faced with that same problem recently. In the end I decided against any vaccinations. I'm not really against the idea of immunisations. While it might not be the best for our species, I reckon if everyone else is getting the protection, then it has no evolutionary significance to leave myself out. Now this applies only theoretically to immunisations that work without negative side effects. Which is something I think might some day exist but doesn't yet. I've yet to find compelling evidence that vaccinations for are viable except maybe some for smallpox vaccination which was applied intradermally. Like Dr Peat said, there is a big difference in the immune reaction to intradermal and subcutaneous or intramuscular vaccinations.

First to answer your question according to the research the research I did. I'm apologise for the lack of sources as I'm short on time at the moment, I recommend you google duckduckgo or startpage any claims I make as you should have plenty of results.

The number one thing is to never get your child vaccinated when he has even mild symptoms of being ill. The risk for vaccine related complications grow greatly when you're vaccinated while sick (also don't get further vaccinations if you've previously had clear negative effects from them as you might have an allergy for something in them). The next biggest thing is to delay them as long as possible and space them apart. The risk of complications again grows bigger the younger the child is and the more vaccines are given at once or at short intervals. There are many vaccinated diseases that aren't really a problem in the first year(s) of the child's life. There's also been some talk of raising the child's vitamin C levels before taking the vaccinations to avoid side effects. I didn't really see any factual evidence for it except some statistics correlating mortality for now vaccinated diseases with vitamin C deficiency. But that could just as well mean that nutritional deficiencies or malnutrition in general corresponds to higher mortality of all causes. But I suppose there is no harm in taking some vitamin C. Do note that to raise your vitamin C saturation you should take small doses of vitamin C several times a day (even hourly) rather than a large daily dose.

If you have the option to opt-out of vaccinations I recommend that you at least research some statistics for the mortality levels of each particular vaccinated disease just before the introduction of the vaccine, the seriousness of the disease and the treatment and outcomes and opt-out of the ones you deem unnecessary. For example, the mortality for rotavirus being so small and seeming of consisting of just dehydration and the lack of reacting to it quickly enough, the arguments for the vaccine seem quite far-fetched. For our generation the vaccination for varicella feels quite unnecessary but so did the vaccination for measles for our parents or grandparents. These are diseases every single person had as a child and the mortality rate in developed countries were close to zero even before vaccinations.

These viewpoints are important if you consider vaccinations to be harmful but potentially life-saving. And while vaccines undoubtedly prevent infections, it's not getting the disease we should be worried about but the outcome. The reason I decided against all vaccines as two-fold. First, as I researched as to what vaccinations to forego based on their prevalence in unvaccinated populations (as considering vaccinated populations I would simply be relying on the total vaccination levels to give protection from infections) and their seriousness (basically complication/mortality rates in developed countries). According to this I decided against vaccine after vaccine after finding actual real studies and statistics. For some diseases it was quite difficult to find sufficient research to make an educated decision. However, after finding pretty much all the vaccines for which I did find sufficient research to seem quite unnecessary I began to doubt necessity for vaccinations in general. At the very least, for the diseases I didn't find enough research against immunisation, I also didn't find enough research for. So considering the harm that we know vaccines to have, not to mention the extent of harm that we can only speculate about, I chose to opt-out of vaccinations completely.

But the second reason that cemented my decision was even more convincing. Like I said, we should be worried out the outcome of the disease and not contracting it. Looking at mortality rates for diseases spanning beyond the start of vaccinations, the rates have come down for a long time as the level of sanitation and nutrition have been rising. And from the charts you really couldn't guess when the vaccinations started. In other words, you can't see the vaccinations having had any effect on the mortality from the disease one way or the other. Also the outbreaks of diseases on vaccinated populations seem to have mortality rates in corresponding ratio to the vaccination rates (e.g. in 90% vaccinated population, ~90% of the deaths are vaccinated people). This seems to imply it's likely that if you were to die of the disease unvaccinated, you will likely contract and die of the disease vaccinated (please correct me if I'm drawing too big conclusions).

Personally I am more concerned of the causes of our failing health, generation by generation than low mortality diseases for the vaccination of which there seems to be no convincing arguments except big profit for whoever sells them. Even if you would assume that vaccines work and are without any side effects, there are other ways to statistically improve your child's odds at life. Such as learning first aid (especially as it pertains to children), making sure your smoke detectors are working and placed correctly, teaching your child to swim, moving to a better neighbourhood, spending more time with your child, striving to be a functional family (as opposed to dysfunctional), driving more carefully, buying a safer baby seat and so on and so forth. But taking your child for vaccinations is just much more simple and low effort way to kind of outsource your responsibilities for a peace of mind.

One more point of view I'd like to bring up is the epigenetic prospects of vaccination. I hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries by directly quoting Dr Peat's May newsletter on coronavirus:

"Focus on the induction of antibodies by vaccines to define immunity has led to a dangerous disregard for the basic facts of health. [...] The consequences of incorporating the spike protein of the virus into our genetic repertoire are hard to imagine. The mindless activation of our huge epigenetic system of retroelements, with no knowable benefits, should be stopped."

In the end, it is your responsibility and privilege to decide for what you think the best for your child. I hope I have given you some food for thought so you can decide just how safe you want to play it with immunisations.

wish my parents were as wise as you. very well written post, obviously written by a sensible person. im gonna save this for whenever i need to convince a parent of avoiding vaccines.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I personally would rather get a couple shots like the MMR to be able to attend school then be homeschooled. school was some of the best days of my life, i think friendship in those settings is very valuable for a child growing up

Well, it's closer to 74 now than simply 2. Your average 40-50 year old has likely had fewer vaccinations than your average 4-5 year old. They may even have surpassed you on their first visit to the doctor (they can give up to 6-7 shots in a visit).

The first two places I lived growing up, I had plenty of friends in the neighborhood. The third was more remote, it was a house that sat on a few acres of land. The neighborhood didn't have any other kids, so most of my friends were in school. I have good memories of high school for the most part, but that was a combo of good friends plus some truly excellent teachers. I would not call school "the best days of my life," though I certainly had some good experiences. A fair amount of negative experiences, too.

Having said that, no reason someone homeschooled can't have friends, or be involved in extra curricular activities. In some areas, there are even hybrid charter schools that cater to this sort of thing. After finding resources like the Ray Peat Forum, I think any learning I've done on my own at home has far surpassed that which I did in college. For more basic skills (reading, writing, typing, math, etc), don't really know, school was pretty good for all that. Though this was in the days before Common Core.