How To Make Vitamin D Work?

[ursidae]

Every time I supplement my mood improves, skin inflammation goes down drastically, colon pain reduces. I make sure to take k2, magnesium, b vitamins etc but even when supplementing modest amounts (1000iu), several days down the line I end up with severe joint pain, hypercalcemia (showed up on blood test), transparent teeth, sore everything, acne lesions turn into cysts, severe anxiety and paranoia, trembling in bed, wide awake at 4 am. I think it also caused my latest kidney problem. I need it as I am still defficient after all the supplementation and four months (summer) of full body exposure to sunlight all day every day.

 

[PaRa]

Follo

Every time I supplement my mood improves, skin inflammation goes down drastically, colon pain reduces. I make sure to take k2, magnesium, b vitamins etc but even when supplementing modest amounts (1000iu), several days down the line I end up with severe joint pain, hypercalcemia (showed up on blood test), transparent teeth, sore everything, acne lesions turn into cysts, severe anxiety and paranoia, trembling in bed, wide awake at 4 am. I think it also caused my latest kidney problem. I need it as I am still defficient after all the supplementation and four months (summer) of full body exposure to sunlight all day every day.

following as I have very low serum D lvl and can’t get sun exposure (France+ winter coming+ work timeframe)
D seems to help my skin when I pop it but worrying about risks from D supplementation

 

[not_James_Bond]

Study Shows Magnesium Optimizes Vitamin D Status

In addition to vitamin D, however, magnesium deficiency is an under-recognized issue. Up to 80 percent of people do not consume enough magnesium in a day to meet the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) based on those national estimates."

 

[PaRa]

Study Shows Magnesium Optimizes Vitamin D Status

Yeah magnesium is important but last bloods showing low D were after summer (and lot of sun) and magnesium supplementation (like 0,5-1g.day)
All I won from the sunbathing was a little tanning + lot of lipofuscin, and serum D didn’t went up

from bloods :
Magnesium and calcium are perfectly mid range
Cholesterol and D low, both bottom of range

maybe I’m a poor converter of light to D although white skinned

as popping some D helps a little with my acne and keratosis pilaris

 

[Jam]

Yeah magnesium is important but last bloods showing low D were after summer (and lot of sun) and magnesium supplementation (like 0,5-1g.day)
All I won from the sunbathing was a little tanning + lot of lipofuscin, and serum D didn’t went up

from bloods :
Magnesium and calcium are perfectly mid range
Cholesterol and D low, both bottom of range

maybe I’m a poor converter of light to D although white skinned

as popping some D helps a little with my acne and keratosis pilaris

Your body can't make D from sunlight if you have low cholesterol. How low is it?

 

[Jam]

Every time I supplement my mood improves, skin inflammation goes down drastically, colon pain reduces. I make sure to take k2, magnesium, b vitamins etc but even when supplementing modest amounts (1000iu), several days down the line I end up with severe joint pain, hypercalcemia (showed up on blood test), transparent teeth, sore everything, acne lesions turn into cysts, severe anxiety and paranoia, trembling in bed, wide awake at 4 am. I think it also caused my latest kidney problem. I need it as I am still defficient after all the supplementation and four months (summer) of full body exposure to sunlight all day every day.

Sounds like elevated PTH.

 

[ursidae]

Sounds like elevated PTH.

I actually tested it. Seems normal, or should be lower?

 

[TopGun1911]

Have you tried drinking full fat milk and eating more cheese/leafy greens?

 

[Jam]

Yeah magnesium is important but last bloods showing low D were after summer (and lot of sun) and magnesium supplementation (like 0,5-1g.day)
All I won from the sunbathing was a little tanning + lot of lipofuscin, and serum D didn’t went up

from bloods :
Magnesium and calcium are perfectly mid range
Cholesterol and D low, both bottom of range

maybe I’m a poor converter of light to D although white skinned

as popping some D helps a little with my acne and keratosis pilaris

I actually tested it. Seems normal, or should be lower?
View attachment 20295

Seems ok. It could be that, due to a chronic infection (like Chron's, latent EBV, herpes, periodontitis, etc.) you may or may not be aware of, serum 25 OH-D levels are low due to your body converting it at a high rate to active 1,25 OH-D. In these cases, supplementing D3, and thus bypassing the body's control mechanisms, can lead to even more active 1,25 OH-D being created by the kidneys and other tissues, thus causing hypercalcemia symptoms.

 

[LLight]

It will not necessarily help you but it is interesting IMO.

There is another pathway of the vitamin D (20-hydroxyvitamin D3 is the metabolite among others) which has apparently no impact on calcium metabolism.

This seems (to me) to be linked to hyperosmolarity response somehow. I wonder if the metabolism of osmolytes could be involved in this story: NFAT5, which protects against hypertonicity, is activated by that stress via structuring of its intrinsically disordered domain

"These findings suggest that in vivo, increased intracellular ionic strength, coupled with osmolytes, may directly activate NFAT5. They encourage further pursuit of this possibility."​

As already discussed, dry fasting/water restriction could upregulate the CYP11A1 enzyme that transforms cholesterol in steroid hormones.

This same enzyme seems to shuttle vitamin D to an alternative pathway to the "standard" one:

The 20-hydroxyvitamin D3 metabolite (of this alternative pathway) seems to have similar properties than the "activated" 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 one:

20-Hydroxyvitamin D3, a Product of Vitamin D3 Hydroxylation by Cytochrome P450scc, Stimulates Keratinocyte Differentiation

"The potency of 20(OH)D3 was comparable to that of 1,25(OH)2D3. 20(OH)D3 decreased the expression of cytochrome P450 enzyme (CYP)27A1 and CYP27B1, however, having only slight effect on CYP24."​

Moreover, the 20-hydroxyvitamin D3 form seems to decrease the level of enzymes that normally carry out the "normal" vitamin D metabolism. This is consistent with the fact that fasting/water restriction seem to "downregulate" the other vitamin D pathway enzymes and increase enzymes that catalize related metabolites.

20-hydroxyvitamin D3 could also be a kind of homologue to the insect hormone called 20-hydroxyecdysone, also called vitamin D1 by the author of this paper (posted by @LeeLemonoil ) : Vitamin D1 versus ecdysteroids: Growth effects on cell regeneration and malignant growth in insects are similar to those in humans

"Conversely, the application of vitamin D1 (20-hydroxyecdysone) caused the regenerating cells to prematurely execute a future morphogenetic programme (i.e., development of patches of pupal tissue on the body of a larva, or prothetely). Among the key features of insect regeneration, is the arrest of cell divisions when tissues resume living cell-to-cell integrity. This prevents the formation of aberrant groups of cells, or tumours. It is well established that the main physiological systems of insects (e.g., circulatory, respiratory, neuro-endocrine) are structurally and functionally similar to corresponding systems in humans. Thus the basic principles of cell regeneration and the role of vitamin D1 in insects may also be valid for humans. The common vitamins D2 (ergocalciferol) or D3 (cholecalciferol), are exclusively lipid soluble secosterols, which require activation by UV irradiation and hydroxylation in the liver. By contrast, the neglected vitamin D1 is a natural derivative of polyhydroxylated 7-dehydrocholesterol of predominantly plant origin, which is both partly a water and partly a lipid soluble vitamin. It neither requires UV irradiation, nor hydroxylation due to 6 or 7 already built-in hydroxylic groups. Like other vitamins, it enters insect or human bodies in plant food or is produced by intestinal symbionts. Vitamin D1 causes strong anabolic, vitamin D-like effects in domestic animals and in humans. I am convinced that avitaminosis associated with a deficiency of vitamin D1 in human blood may be responsible for certain hitherto incurable human diseases, especially those related to impaired nerve functions and somatic growth, aberrant cell regeneration or formation of malignant tumours."​

There is two things that could indicate that these hormones could have similar function/actions:

Insect CYP Genes and P450 Enzymes

"The conversion of ecdysone to 20-hydroxyecdysone does not occur in the prothoracic glands, but does occur in many peripheral tissues, such as the fat body, midgut, and Malpighian tubules. The P450 nature of the enzyme catalyzing the 20-hydroxylation of ecdysone was well established [...] The agreement on the P450 nature of the reaction was accompanied by a lack of consensus on the subcellular localization of E20MO."

"The mitochondrial E20MO activity was reportedly inhibited by antibodies to vertebrate P450scc (CYP11A), P45011β (CYP11B), adrenodoxin, and adrenodoxin reductase (Chen et al., 1994), despite the considerable sequence divergence predicted between the vertebrate and insect proteins."​

The enzyme that catalyses the production of 20-hydroxyecdysone could have similarities with the one metabolizing cholesterol in 20-hydroxyvitamin D3.

Secondly: Dehydration triggers ecdysone-mediated recognition-protein priming and elevated anti-bacterial immune responses in Drosophila Malpighian tubule renal cells

"Ecdysone titers measured from aged flies were also significantly elevated relative to young females in control (food) conditions, while desiccation increased 20E (20-hydroxyecdysone) in both young and old animals"​

So water restriction increases the production of the 20-hydroxyecdysone hormone in drosophila. Which would remind the upregulation of CYP11A1 in human during dehydration.

TL;DR:
Water restriction/fasting could increase the expression of the CYP11A1 enzyme that is involved in the first step of steroid hormones metabolism and in the synthesis of a form of vitamin D (20-hydroxyvitamin D3) whose pathway is an alternative to the standard one.
This form of vitamin D could be connected to "vitamin D1" (20-hydroxyecdysone), which could be a potentially potent healing substance according to some theories based on insect studies.

 

[PaRa]

Your body can't make D from sunlight if you have low cholesterol. How low is it?

vD is at 62,70 nmol.L-1
Total cholesterol is at 3,19mmol.L-1 and my lab’s range is 3,10-5,2
Don’t have hdl and ldl details

Triglycérides are 0,94 mmol.L-1 tho (0,5-1,7 lab range)

 

[Jam]

Interesting @LLight

Btw, @ursidae, serum 25 OH-D is not a good indicator of "Vitamin D" status. Vitamin D is stored in body fat and such, and serum levels only indicate how much is present in the blood at any given moment, and thus gives very little indication to how much is stored away in the body. During infection or disease, the body converts 25 OH-D at a high rate to the active 1,25 OH-D, which modulates and directs the immune system. Additionally, many viruses occupy and block vitamin D receptors (VDRs) so as to stunt the body's immune response, and this leads to over-production 1,25 OH-D... which can deplete serum 25 OH-D and potentially cause hypercalcemia. If available in your neck of the woods, I would highly recommend testing 1,25 OH-D levels.

 

[Jam]

vD is at 62,70 nmol.L-1
Total cholesterol is at 3,19mmol.L-1 and my lab’s range is 3,10-5,2
Don’t have hdl and ldl details

Triglycérides are 0,94 mmol.L-1 tho (0,5-1,7 lab range)

62.7 nm/L = 25.12 ng/ml. That's not too bad. 30ng/ml is the sweet spot, IMO, although some may beg to differ. My wife's serum 25 OH-D has tested consistently at 9-10ng/ml. That's low. Yours is ok, a bit low but nothing to worry about IMO. But like I said above, this run-of-the-mill "vitamin D" serum 25 OH-D test isn't so useful...

 

[Jam]

@PaRa, if you want to maintain adequate stores of Vitamin D naturally, without bypassing the body's built-in regulation mechanism, try to increase your cholesterol a bit and get an Osram Ultra Vitalux 300W bulb with a ceramic socket. Exposing the upper body for several minutes at a distance of 70cm, 3-4 x per week is more than enough.

 

[golder]

@PaRa, if you want to maintain adequate stores of Vitamin D naturally, without bypassing the body's built-in regulation mechanism, try to increase your cholesterol a bit and get an Osram Ultra Vitalux 300W bulb with a ceramic socket. Exposing the upper body for several minutes at a distance of 70cm, 3-4 x per week is more than enough.

Thanks for this!

 

[lampofred]

Have you tried drinking full fat milk and eating more cheese/leafy greens?

+1

The vitamin A and K in milk fat seem to be needed in proportion with vitamin D (in my case vit K supplements aren't as effective as milk fat), unfortunately whole milk has PUFA which does add up. So it should be used in minimal quantities and with increased thyroid to detox the PUFA before it can build up.

 

[golder]

+1

The vitamin A and K in milk fat seem to be needed in proportion with vitamin D (in my case vit K supplements aren't as effective as milk fat), unfortunately whole milk has PUFA which does add up. So it should be used in minimal quantities and with increased thyroid to detox the PUFA before it can build up.

How about semi-skimmed milk? (Green top in the uk), would that sort of be the best of both worlds here?

 

[kyle]

Calcitriol or Cholecalciferol?

 

[ursidae]

Interesting @LLight

Btw, @ursidae, serum 25 OH-D is not a good indicator of "Vitamin D" status. Vitamin D is stored in body fat and such, and serum levels only indicate how much is present in the blood at any given moment, and thus gives very little indication to how much is stored away in the body. During infection or disease, the body converts 25 OH-D at a high rate to the active 1,25 OH-D, which modulates and directs the immune system. Additionally, many viruses occupy and block vitamin D receptors (VDRs) so as to stunt the body's immune response, and this leads to over-production 1,25 OH-D... which can deplete serum 25 OH-D and potentially cause hypercalcemia. If available in your neck of the woods, I would highly recommend testing 1,25 OH-D levels.

Thank you for the information. I’ll see if I can get it tested

 

[ursidae]

Have you tried drinking full fat milk and eating more cheese/leafy greens?

Dairy fat gives me cystic acne. Other animal fat that isn’t fish fat also does it, to a lesser extent. I used to live off butter and sourdough bread with not a spot in sight but it is what it is.
I’m open to eating leaves even though I don’t like the taste. Right now eating lots of sprouts