How to get the most E2 Estradiol out of DHEA supplementation?

[fasoracetam]

So after 6 weeks of finishing my TRT protocol of every day injections (140mg week total) I suffer from low E2 symptoms. Dry skin, dry eyes, fatigue, ED, low (no) libido, paranoia, negative thoughts, achy joints, everything.

So immediately i switched back to E3.5D 70mg. I also added a booster shot of 100mg TEst Enanthate to get some aromatization going. I already felt a lot better next day.

I know it takes some time to get E2 up but is there a process to feel better faster?
The booster shot fixed my paranoia and negative thoughts and gave me back a bit of optimism.

I have pregnenolone 100mg caps and DHEA 10mg Caps.

DHEA is supposed to turn into estradiol when taken orally, right?

I also tried adding in drinking beer and adding phytoestrogens (dont know if that helps).

Any tips how to get thge most estradiol formation? DHEA 10mg before bed is enough? I noticed it makes me a bit sleepy

 

[Hans]

Low DHT can actually also cause dry eyes. DHT is very needed for erections, libido and mental calmness. DHT most likely dropped as well after your TRT, so I'd rather focus on boosting DHT as well.

DHEA is more prone to boosting estrone, rather than estradiol, even in high doses. Boron can also help to increase estradiol.
DHEA converts into androsterone, which is a GABA agonist that can also help a lot with mental issues and make you sleepy.

 

[fasoracetam]

im still on trt, but I switched to lower injection frequency which should actually give me more e2 and more dht conversion.
I want to avoid boosting DHT since i lost hair density when i started TRT with gel (which are known to increase more towards DHT than injections)

do you know if adding pregnenolone to TRT could actually help with hair loss due to progesterone->5ar-inhibition increase?

Actually I have some boron at home, but I have read long term supplementation actually lessens E2. And I fear that it pushed my SHBG down too much.
I had a pre-trt SHBG of around ~23. Injections brought it down further i guess (havent tested it via bloodwork) but thats what everyone says.

Thats actually the reaason i tried every day injections cause i felt so muc hbetter with gel (daily application) than with e3.5d injections. I thought maybe my shbg got too low and gel works better cause of daily app, But I guess I was wrong, that completely destroyed my e2.

When Im sleeping my eyes become so dry it hurts. not even drops help

 

[Hans]

im still on trt, but I switched to lower injection frequency which should actually give me more e2 and more dht conversion.
I want to avoid boosting DHT since i lost hair density when i started TRT with gel (which are known to increase more towards DHT than injections)

do you know if adding pregnenolone to TRT could actually help with hair loss due to progesterone->5ar-inhibition increase?

Actually I have some boron at home, but I have read long term supplementation actually lessens E2. And I fear that it pushed my SHBG down too much.
I had a pre-trt SHBG of around ~23. Injections brought it down further i guess (havent tested it via bloodwork) but thats what everyone says.

Thats actually the reaason i tried every day injections cause i felt so muc hbetter with gel (daily application) than with e3.5d injections. I thought maybe my shbg got too low and gel works better cause of daily app, But I guess I was wrong, that completely destroyed my e2.

When Im sleeping my eyes become so dry it hurts. not even drops help

Perhaps progesterone can help, but it doesn't inhibit 5-AR, only competes for it.
Boron can lower it if it's too high and increase it if it's low.

What's your diet like? Vitamin A deficiency can also cause dry eyes.

 

[fasoracetam]

I improved my diet a lot since starting trt.
Now it consists of whole grain bread, sometimes with butter sometimes quth low fat cottage cheese, water, tea, coffee from times to times insstead of daily soda, fruits, tuna, other low fat meats. rice, eggs. not always buit often try to eat daily vegetables.

I dont think its the diet. When I was on gel i had worse insulin resistance and i was craving high sugar/carbs everyday and had a way worse diet than now, but i felt a lot better

 

[Hans]

I improved my diet a lot since starting trt.
Now it consists of whole grain bread, sometimes with butter sometimes quth low fat cottage cheese, water, tea, coffee from times to times insstead of daily soda, fruits, tuna, other low fat meats. rice, eggs. not always buit often try to eat daily vegetables.

I dont think its the diet. When I was on gel i had worse insulin resistance and i was craving high sugar/carbs everyday and had a way worse diet than now, but i felt a lot better

How did you know you had insulin resistance on gel?

 

[fasoracetam]

all i know is on gel my diet was completely f'ed up, i was craving sugars (especially a big coke a day) like an addicted madman.
Now on injections my diet is really clean. Before i just couldnt resist the craving.
I tried opiates many times in the past (never was addicted) but never had a problem with these, but with a bottle of coke a day I was struggling a lot lol.


Its a big difference now. I guess its both an improved insulin sensitivity? and an heightened dopaminergic response so i need less drug/sugar stimulation.

 

[Dave Clark]

Hans, since you brought up boron, what is your take on it for supplementation, since it can increase both testosterone and estrogen in studies. There is a a lot of conflicting science on how it works. The one study I saw that was disheartening was that boron increased T for weeks, then it showed increase in E after about 8 weeks. sounds like eventually it is going to raise estrogen levels somewhere down the line after constant use. There are some good things about boron, but is the raise in estrogen an acceptable trade off? Probably not in Peat World.

 

[schultz]

Any tips how to get thge most estradiol formation? DHEA 10mg before bed is enough? I noticed it makes me a bit sleepy

Eat a lot of PUFA. PUFA increases estrogen and also has estrogen like effects.

Noradrenaline increases aromatase. You could work on increasing stress hormones. Increased cortisol would probably help too.

Limiting protein will increase estrogen by preventing glucoronidation by the liver.

Magnesium deficiency is apparently associated with estrogen dominance.

Radiation increases estrogen as well.

 

[fasoracetam]

thanks for the tip. I looked into PUFA foods and found flaxseed, oatmeal, eggs etc. SO this also includes their phytoestrogens right?
There seems to be contradictive info on phytoestrogens. Some say they act like estrogen/increase estrogen, others say phytoestrogens almost act like a SERM by binding to estrogen receptors but performing no action there, actually hindering real estrogen doing its work at the receptors? do you know about that?

Cortisol is also raised by pregnenolone right?
What would pregnenolone taken directly together with DHEA do? leading towards estrogen formation or is it actually better to keep them seperate?

I fear the progesterone from pregnenolone which is an anti-estrogen actually could hinder my goals right now

 

[TheBeard]

Or you could remove fiber and starch from your diet and feel optimal.

I also had dry eyes and cracking joints before I cleaned my diet.

Your diet is "clean" as per average Joe standards, but by no mean conducive to optimal health.

Fix your diet before dabbling with hormones.

 

[dukesbobby777]

Add in lots of starch for the endotoxin. That should bump up the estrogens. But you’d have to keep at it. Won’t happen overnight. Perhaps try to add on some body fat. That also might help. So SAD fast food (with lots of daily calories) should pack on the pounds, and turn you into an estrogen factory.

 

[fasoracetam]

I may drop the preg and dhea in the future when I got more money to do bloodwork to see If i even need it on TRT anyways, as im still young.
But right now its more like a emergency situation. I got my estradiol up by doing a big booster shot of Testosterone and it was worth it.

low estradiol for sure is mental hell. I actually thought it was some kind of GABAergic withdrawal due to phenibut but no, it was "just" low e2. really really horrible. way worse than just low T.
Im just looking for a bridge for the next, maybe (?) idk how long it will take to get my e2 via injections) 2 weeks? to get the process going a bit faster