How to fix gum disease for <$100

[brocktoon]

My father lost all his teeth due to peridontal disease at 40, my mom who was a freakin NURSE for oral surgeons lost all of hers at 50. At 67 I still confound my dentist and hygienist because I refuse commercial toothpaste and do not floss.
Perfect checkup, have all my teeth.
Baking soda brushing morning and night with 2drops of THERAPEAUTIC GRADE cloves oil. Unless they let you see the test results, its prob not therapeutic essential oil. $16 from YoungLiving lasts for months. Most potent antioxident on planet earth ORAC scale off the charts compared to anything else, and all those invasive tools and chemicals

Clove Vitality
Is this the Young Living product you've referred to in your post?

 

[akgrrrl]

Yes. In 5ml they call it vitality for some FDA reason because thats the food use size. Better deal is 15ml bottle, lasts me 6months

 

[cjm]

My father lost all his teeth due to peridontal disease at 40, my mom who was a freakin NURSE for oral surgeons lost all of hers at 50. At 67 I still confound my dentist and hygienist because I refuse commercial toothpaste and do not floss.
Perfect checkup, have all my teeth.
Baking soda brushing morning and night with 2drops of THERAPEAUTIC GRADE cloves oil. Unless they let you see the test results, its prob not therapeutic essential oil. $16 from YoungLiving lasts for months. Most potent antioxident on planet earth ORAC scale off the charts compared to anything else, and all those invasive tools and chemicals

Congrats on your excellent dental health! All my chomps are capped, with 9 root canals and 2 extractions. Not fun! I need to do a little research on clove oil but I'm intrigued given your apparent success with it.

Re: your non-flossing, Mark Manhart DDS, founder of the Calcium Therapy Institute, says basically that flossing promotes infection. He has a theory that most dental decay is due to an infection between the front two teeth (diastema).

"Dr. Mark Manhart: Four conditions cause perio disease: missing teeth (not restored), traumatic bite of the teeth, lifestyle stress, and bad bacteria, most directly related to diastemic (deviations) infection in the bone between #8+9 teeth. The last is excessively common and may be the only realistic bacterial infection of the oral cavity. It is also the most unappreciated diseased condition and bacterial cause of complete dental breakdown."

Most cases probably involve all four conditions.

But super interesting comment about the diastema (between front two teeth) being the only realistic spot for infection!

The Calcium Method of Osseo-Endo-Cystic Therapy and the “Diastema Dilemma” Mark J. Manhart DDS, December 2010

The treatment: "Upon utilizing varied formulae of weekly or monthly applications of timed-release calcium/zinc/ester compounds directly to the infected tissues, without local anesthesia, rapid healing is stimulated"

Also, interesting comparison to put the severity of the infection in a different light: "The size, locale and occurrence of these conditions seem incidental until it is quite late in its progression and clear we are dealing with a large, non-vital maxillary central incisor and a cyst the size of a small almond which has developed in the maxilla for 20 years or more. Were this sort of infection located on radius of the forearm, slowly enlarging, draining out of the arm and painless for 10 weeks, someone people would be rather upset about it. Few would tolerate it."

I treat myself at home with the calcium-zinc "strips" -- which one can easily mistake for a tab of acid -- and soak some of the calcium "chips" in a bottle of water for rinsing my mouth.

It's pretty remarkable how effective it is for toothaches and referred pain headaches from irritated roots.

I think zinc is the big player in the duo. Just a hunch. He claims it is a proprietary formula.

~~~

You're spot on avoiding pastes, they are actually worse than useless:

"Raluca Schachter: Why aren’t toothpaste and floss necessary?
Dr. Mark Manhart: Pastes leave sweet, junky residue that turns quickly to acid. Floss spreads infection, damages the delicate gums, constantly breaks the contacts between teeth which they do not like. No one needs it. On rare occasions, floss or a toothpick may be needed, but be careful. These drive patients into dental offices. Better that we do things that last longer and keep you healthy and out of our offices."

 

[akgrrrl]

Thankyou for your informative post. I had no validating studies but my success has been dramatic enough to share. Peppermint oil is the runnerup to clove

 

[cjm]

I sure hope at least one of these work. I mean, truly work in the long run.

I mean, it would more likely work as a preventive to periodontal disease, but on the question of eliminating periodontal pathogens on people already with periodontal disease I am not so sure.

I have one extraction after another and after each time I would say that's the last time, as I would conscientiously take care of flossing, waterpicking, and brushing my teeth and even do oil pulling while at the shower. Alas, there's no end to the bacteria claiming one tooth after another as the bacteria manages to survive under the gum and goes on to destroy teeth. This is why often by the time they are in their twiilight, a lot of people have little teeth left. I thought about that in taking care of my parents who in their old age had lost plenty of teeth. I told myself it wouldn't happen to me but here I am with 5 less teeth.

I'm trying Dr. Manhart's calcium therapy but he makes it sound so simple and I have a hard time just using his very simple method. And he says it will take care of existing periodontal issues. Bold claims are sometimes true though, but more often not. But I'm giving his method a try, but I still take SSKI and k2-mk7 as I think it will not hurt. The little flakes of calcium that I stick in between teeth don't seem to scare bacteria, but hey I should at least give it a try.

I have a gingival abscess that's been with me for 5 months and it won't go away. I didn't want to go to the dentist as he's talking pulling out the loose tooth and then doing some cleaning that's out of the ordinary. I doubt he's got the answer for it, and he's already a good biological dentist, and not just another dentist. I've lost 2 additional teeth under him where he gave me no indication I would expect to lose more teeth (the first 3 were under him as well, but man those teeth really deserve to be pulled out because there were bacterial colonies under them), and now I don't want more teeth to go. I think he's failed in that aspect of it. And so I'm glad I can try Dr. Manhart's calcium therapy.

I guess continuing to have patients' teeth extracted is a continuing source of income for dentists, conventional or biological or what not. Now my attitude towards dentists is the same as my attitude towards doctors. It makes no difference whether they're conventional or naturopathic. Not all of them, but most aren't capable of solving many of my issues. I have to find the solutions myself.

I didn't see your post before I posted my experience with Calcium Therapy. I followed @akgrrrl's recent post history, found this thread and started clacking on the keyboard.

So you're working with Dr. Manhart? Cool! How much does it cost to get out there? I flew from within the contiguous US twice to see him and I broke the bank each time getting there and staying for a few days for more intensive therapy than can be done at home, as well as two root canals he didn't charge for.

His chairside manner is impeccable and the office was usually quiet. It was a very pleasant experience during a dark time in my life when everything was going to sh*t. I don't say that to understate the scientist and doctor he is. His heart is enormous.

EdIt: @ yerrag I think I misread your post. You are working with the calcium materials from the Institute but you have a local dentist in Manila, right? Manhart does see international patients so it wasn't a leap to assume you had flown out there. There is not much justification to go out there (for real, what does a flight to Omaha cost??) when the at-home materials work so well.

 

[yerrag]

You might want to check out askthedentist and Stephen lin. Are you mouth breathing?

I listened to an interview of him. I agree with him, but didn't find he added new wrinkles to the field, but I could be wrong. Does he have much to say on eliminating existing periodontal disease? That I would be very interested in. He is very much in the tradition of Weston Price, which is laudable.

Sorry for asking a perhaps stupid question ... for dental application/mouthwashes i've read that Povidone-iodine (PVP-I), also known as iodopovidone is used. Or could a regular lugol's iodine solution work just as well which would contain both the regular potassium iodide and elemental iodine?

For salt water i guess basic sea or mountain salt should work fine.




Man sorry for your troubles, going trough gum receeding myself atm and i seem to have a "wave" again where it is worse, cant close my jaw properly either for a while now. Agree on the doctor part. Like Hair or eyes or other chornic health issues ... everything nowadays is supposedly uncureable.

Neither oil pulling with coconut oil nor cdl or grapefrutiseed extracts mouthwashes seem to help. Havent tried methylene blue yet, not sure where to get it. I also dont like that it is a cell staining tool but desperate times require desperate measures?

I don't understand what is in dr manharts products. What form of calcium/zinc? calcium carbonate? So i could just make mouthwashes/pastes myself? Can't find infos in that regard. In one video he just says it is basic calcium, magnesium and zinc.

Could a calcium powder from algea/corals work too? There is this company that claims their Lithothamnion superpositum based supplement is better than conventional supplements and even promises bone growth ... i haven't looked further into it but since im not knolwedgeable enough i have no idea what form absorbs best trough the oral mucosa. And calcium seems to have this wierd relationship with the fat soluble vitamins that i cant make enough sense of yet.

I don't think adding the calcium therapy outlined by dr manhart is problematic so might aswell add it to the regular cleaning.

Using basic calcium carbonate in water and applying it to teeth or swish it around makes my teeth and jaw do wierd cracking sounds oddly But i feel better afterwards so maybe placeboe is a friend here.

I've been using Dr. Manhart's product for about 10 days. I'm gargling with his oral solution and brushing with his toothbrush, and I'm using the calcium-zinc flake by sticking it between the teeth with a plastic aid that comes with the calcium-zinc flake. I can see the gingival abscess I've had for 5 months recede, so there's something visibly working with his product, as simple and as lacking in packaging jazz it comes in.

The calcium-zinc flake is a little minty to the taste, and it takes a little practice to get used to stuffing it in between teeth. I use it both before I go to bed and during the day, applying it when I know I won't be chewing on food for a while. When I wake up, I would feel a little aftertaste to my mouth. Just a different feeling. Neutral in terms of pleasantness. I would have to say the way the product is, is intentional. It did not come in the form of a paste, which would have been easier to apply. Nor did it come as something to gargle with (the mouthwash does that). So the solid flake form will just melt slowly and its slow-acting effect means that the calcium-zinc solution it turns into has the chance to get absorbed into the surrounding tissues of the mouth. As to why it works in reducing my infection I really won't know.

If you order the product and use it, it may just help you. It is pricey if you base it on the cost of the product and packaging, but it is a good deal in terms of the benefits of using the product. Don't think it's just some calcium and zinc, think of it as a patented product (although it isn't, as a patent on it means the formula would have to be revealed) that would cost a lot more in the hands of big pharma, if they ever want to sell, as it is a cure, not a maintenance product. But even as a maintenance item, something you would have to buy regularly, it's a better deal that having to go back to the dentist for cleaning and for extraction and for false teeth to be made.

It may sound like he's selling snake oil because a simple product can't do all that, but there are people in our forum who has vouched for it.

 

[yerrag]

I didn't see your post before I posted my experience with Calcium Therapy. I followed @akgrrrl's recent post history, found this thread and started clacking on the keyboard.

So you're working with Dr. Manhart? Cool! How much does it cost to get out there? I flew from within the contiguous US twice to see him and I broke the bank each time getting there and staying for a few days for more intensive therapy than can be done at home, as well as two root canals he didn't charge for.

His chairside manner is impeccable and the office was usually quiet. It was a very pleasant experience during a dark time in my life when everything was going to sh*t. I don't say that to understate the scientist and doctor he is. His heart is enormous.

EdIt: @ yerrag I think I misread your post. You are working with the calcium materials from the Institute but you have a local dentist in Manila, right? Manhart does see international patients so it wasn't a leap to assume you had flown out there. There is not much justification to go out there (for real, what does a flight to Omaha cost??) when the at-home materials work so well.

Product seems to work, as I indicated in the post before this.

I am cheating a little though, as I would still use the waterpik before I brush with his toothbrush using the oral mouthwash. I would brush for much longer than I used to, as that's what his instruction is. Then I would apply the calcium-zinc flakes. At first I was regretting I didn't order the strips, but know I even think the flakes are superior. I think he developed the strips because they are more convenient to use, but if you don't mind the initial getting used to process, the flakes are better or at the very least, equal in performance. It's like how sequels are. The first movie in a series has almost always been the best.

 

[Jam]

I listened to an interview of him. I agree with him, but didn't find he didn't new wrinkles to the field, but I could be wrong. Does he have much to say on eliminating existing periodontal disease? That I would be very interested in. He is very much in the tradition of Weston Price, which is laudable.


I've been using Dr. Manhart's product for about 10 days. I'm gargling with his oral solution and brushing with his toothbrush, and I'm using the calcium-zinc flake by sticking it between the teeth with a plastic aid that comes with the calcium-zinc flake. I can see the gingival abscess I've had for 5 months recede, so there's something visibly working with his product, as simple and as lacking in packaging jazz it comes in.

The calcium-zinc flake is a little minty to the taste, and it takes a little practice to get used to stuffing it in between teeth. I use it both before I go to bed and during the day, applying it when I know I won't be chewing on food for a while. When I wake up, I would feel a little aftertaste to my mouth. Just a different feeling. Neutral in terms of pleasantness. I would have to say the way the product is, is intentional. It did not come in the form of a paste, which would have been easier to apply. Nor did it come as something to gargle with (the mouthwash does that). So the solid flake form will just melt slowly and its slow-acting effect means that the calcium-zinc solution it turns into has the chance to get absorbed into the surrounding tissues of the mouth. As to why it works in reducing my infection I really won't know.

If you order the product and use it, it may just help you. It is pricey if you base it on the cost of the product and packaging, but it is a good deal in terms of the benefits of using the product. Don't think it's just some calcium and zinc, think of it as a patented product that would cost a lot more in the hands of big pharma, if they ever want to sell, as it is a cure, not a maintenance product. But even as a maintenance item, something you would have to buy regularly, it's a better deal that having to go back to the dentist for cleaning and for extraction and for false teeth to be made.

It may sound like he's selling snake oil because a simple product can't do all that, but there are people in our forum who has vouched for it.

I investigated Dr. Manhart's calcium therapy a few years back, and came to the conclusion that it is probably not in any way superior to simply coating the gums with powdered zinc acetate lozenges + calcium ascorbate powder. I actually did that for a good few months and it really seemed to help. Not sure why I stopped, I should probably get back on it.

 

[yerrag]

I investigated Dr. Manhart's calcium therapy a few years back, and came to the conclusion that it is probably not in any way superior to simply coating the gums with powdered zinc acetate lozenges + calcium ascorbate powder. I actually did that for a good few months and it really seemed to help. Not sure why I stopped, I should probably get back on it.

Dr. Manhart's been doing this for more than 40 years. He's tried to intoduce his system to dental schools. No wonder it would not take off. His system would wipe off entire specialties in the dental profession. The elegance of his solution is its simplicity, not to mention cost-effectiveness.

 

[Ben.]

"Dr. Mark Manhart: Pastes leave sweet, junky residue that turns quickly to acid. Floss spreads infection, damages the delicate gums, constantly breaks the contacts between teeth which they do not like. No one needs it. On rare occasions, floss or a toothpick may be needed, but be careful. These drive patients into dental offices. Better that we do things that last longer and keep you healthy and out of our offices."

This warms my heart so much. I used to have the impression thats how most health professionals are working ... but after my past years i know theres only a handful of thoose.

In a video of his i almost teared up to much when he said something along the lines of:

"It is not your fault, its not, you did everything you were told, brushing, flossing, avoiding sugar ... *sighs camly* It is one or a combination of 4 things, improper bite, stress, a rare infection ..."

I dont remember his exact words but he is ******* right!

I investigated Dr. Manhart's calcium therapy a few years back, and came to the conclusion that it is probably not in any way superior to simply coating the gums with powdered zinc acetate lozenges + calcium ascorbate powder. I actually did that for a good few months and it really seemed to help. Not sure why I stopped, I should probably get back on it.

My thoughts exactly. the past days/weeks im using some of my supplements like calcium and minerals and just coat my mouth with it along with water.

Feels like its helping/working.

 

[cjm]

Product seems to work, as I indicated in the post before this.

I am cheating a little though, as I would still use the waterpik before I brush with his toothbrush using the oral mouthwash. I would brush for much longer than I used to, as that's what his instruction is. Then I would apply the calcium-zinc flakes. At first I was regretting I didn't order the strips, but know I even think the flakes are superior. I think he developed the strips because they are more convenient to use, but if you don't mind the initial getting used to process, the flakes are better or at the very least, equal in performance. It's like how sequels are. The first movie in a series has almost always been the best.

Point taken. The strips are legitimately convenient (it is a good sequel!) but there's no substitute for precise placement of the material between the teeth at the gum line.

In a video of his i almost teared up to much when he said something along the lines of:

"It is not your fault, its not, you did everything you were told, brushing, flossing, avoiding sugar ... *sighs camly* It is one or a combination of 4 things, improper bite, stress, a rare infection ..."

+1

Empathy is a nutrient!

 

[akgrrrl]

Point taken. The strips are legitimately convenient (it is a good sequel!) but there's no substitute for precise placement of the material between the teeth at the gum line.



+1

Empathy is a nutrient!

Best post on this thread. Empathy IS a nutrient!

 

[Ben.]

The strips are legitimately convenient (it is a good sequel!) but there's no substitute for precise placement of the material between the teeth at the gum line.

Have you tried the carpule system they sell besides the chips? Causes pain/inflammation and canker sore/ulcers for me (no idea what to think of that reaction, calcium therapy didnt reply to my email in that regard yet).

The special Toothbrush and coating my teeth/gums with calcium feels good tho.

Also, iodine (not iodide) is the solution to internal removal of stored fluoride. They fit into the same spaces in the body. When iodine comes to a place where fluoride is, the iodine will deject the fluoride.

Thanks again man. My teeth/gum seem to be in a lot better place and its only been like 2 weeks. Iodine (i used lugols 5%) makes my teeth/gums feel awsome. From all the stuff i tried this seems to work the most efficient (all of this seems to work better or worse depending on the day and its current oral flora):

• Cocount and Clove oil pulling.
• Wheatgrass rinsing/swishing.
• Salt water rinsing and/or using salt water with a waterpick.
• Hydrogen peroxide
• Iodine solution on gums.
• Calcium/Minerals.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Thanks again man. My teeth/gum seem to be in a lot better place and its only been like 2 weeks. Iodine (i used lugols 5%) makes my teeth/gums feel awsome. From all the stuff i tried this seems to work the most efficient (all of this seems to work better or worse depending on the day and its current oral flora):

• Cocount and Clove oil pulling.
• Wheatgrass rinsing/swishing.
• Salt water rinsing and/or using salt water with a waterpick.
• Hydrogen peroxide
• Iodine solution on gums.
• Calcium/Minerals.

Solid!

 

[Mossy]

Thankyou for your informative post. I had no validating studies but my success has been dramatic enough to share. Peppermint oil is the runnerup to clove

Would you happen to know if oil of oregano is good for oral hygiene? I recall reading that is it supposed to be.

 

[Sergey]

Hey guys,
My teeth today feel the best they've ever felt, even considering the days that I've just left the dental hygienist, so I did a quick write-up of some recent information I came across + a practice I employed which gave great results.

#############

---> How to fix gum disease for less than $100 <---

THINGS NEEDED:

1. Toothbrush
2. Toothpaste, tooth powder, or mouth-safe bar soap (like Dr. Bronner's)
3. Floss
4. Supplemental iodine
5. Saltwater solution (64 ounces)
6. Water flosser (like a Waterpik)

*Optional: Q-tips as an alternative to a toothbrush for iodine application
_____________
DIRECTIONS:

1. Brush teeth like normal
2. Floss teeth like normal
3. Apply iodine to brush or Q-tip
4. Spread iodine liberally all over gumline and in between teeth until well-covered
5. Use water flosser with saltwater solution to diligently pressure wash the collar of each tooth

Note: the saltwater solution is 14 teaspoons of salt mixed into 64 ounces of water.

How long have you been doing this?

 

[akgrrrl]

Would you happen to know if oil of oregano is good for oral hygiene? I recall reading that is it supposed to be.

My goodness oregano is a powerful "hot" oil. It will burn mucous membranes and skin ( if we are talking therapeutic grade) tastes awful.Its constituents are historically used to cardiovascular system, and immune system, with lesser applications for muscle/bone and antiaging and nearly all recommends say dilute it 20 to 80 some other carrier oil for any use. In the International Journal of Food Microbiology 5, 165-80 the study "Antibacterial Properties Of Plant Essential Oils" 50 plant oils were tested in different concentrations for antibacterial activity against 25 genera of bacteria. The top ten were clove, cinnamon, angelica, bay,thyme, almond, marjoram, pimento, geranium, lovage. Oregano really shines against aspergillus for an antifungal, and many use it via cap as an antibiotic after a series of studies in 2000's.I often get ambivalent about early studies. Why? Modern mass spectroscopy or gas chromatograpy, or nuclear magnetic resonance research shows disregard for purity or "overcooking" during distillation. This whole resurgence and awareness of oils as chemical compounds has been a process to re-learn how process changes the final esters. In the end, inhaling an adulterated oil (as described in earlier post) alongside a therapeutic grade is eye opening.

 

[akgrrrl]

Another way to measure usefullness might be to consider the ORAC scale. Tufts Univ was first to measure both the time and degree of free-radical inhibition of any foodstuffs, with the goal of charting the highest antioxident foods. I can list some common items from that OxygenRadicalAbsorbanceCapacity testing for reference:
Carrots 210
Cherries 670
Beets 840
Yellow corn 400
Raspberries 1220
Blueberries 2400
Ginger 99,300
Fennel 238,400
Coriander 298,300
Clove 1,078,700

 

[Twohandsondeck]

How long have you been doing this?

5 out of 7 days upon first learning about it, one time in the evening for the first five days.

Since that time I did it once last night, about 2-3 weeks later. I'm getting the feeling that it'll be useful to do once a month for maintenance.

 

[Mossy]

My goodness oregano is a powerful "hot" oil. It will burn mucous membranes and skin ( if we are talking therapeutic grade) tastes awful.Its constituents are historically used to cardiovascular system, and immune system, with lesser applications for muscle/bone and antiaging and nearly all recommends say dilute it 20 to 80 some other carrier oil for any use. In the International Journal of Food Microbiology 5, 165-80 the study "Antibacterial Properties Of Plant Essential Oils" 50 plant oils were tested in different concentrations for antibacterial activity against 25 genera of bacteria. The top ten were clove, cinnamon, angelica, bay,thyme, almond, marjoram, pimento, geranium, lovage. Oregano really shines against aspergillus for an antifungal, and many use it via cap as an antibiotic after a series of studies in 2000's.I often get ambivalent about early studies. Why? Modern mass spectroscopy or gas chromatograpy, or nuclear magnetic resonance research shows disregard for purity or "overcooking" during distillation. This whole resurgence and awareness of oils as chemical compounds has been a process to re-learn how process changes the final esters. In the end, inhaling an adulterated oil (as described in earlier post) alongside a therapeutic grade is eye opening.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I probably should’ve noted that I have oil of oregano diluted to 25%. It’s good to know that clove and cinnamon are best, for they taste the best.