How To Fix Ceruloplasmin?

Astolfo

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Ceruloplasmin levels came as low(17; 15-34) and I get temporary but real improvements from eating cacao or dark chocolate. I found out that copper could be the culprit behind all my symptoms, but i don't know how to fix it.
Moreover, I do not even know how it went out of control after just a few days of fluxoetine usage(10mg).

I can't really eat cacao all day because it's expensive and doesn't seem like taking more copper will fix anything. I wonder why my ceruloplasmin is low and how to reverse that.
 

JKX

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Directly proportionate to progesterone. So anything which helps increase progesterone should be helpful.
 

Astolfo

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Directly proportionate to progesterone. So anything which helps increase progesterone should be helpful.

Once i took 100 mg progesterone at once :troll: It didn't do anything at all.
 

JKX

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I can put 3mg on the inside of my elbow and notice breathing and pulse improvement almost immediately. What about zinc, magnesium or vitamin E, all increase progesterone.
 

Astolfo

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I can put 3mg on the inside of my elbow and notice breathing and pulse improvement almost immediately. What about zinc, magnesium or vitamin E, all increase progesterone.
I'm taking all of them for a while. They are not working either.
 

JKX

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How do you know your ceruloplasmin wasnt low before the SSRI?

Cacao and dark choc can both positively modulate the gut and increase dopamine. Given the majority of serotonin is produced in the gut, I think there is likley to be a link from that angle.
 

Astolfo

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How do you know your ceruloplasmin wasnt low before the SSRI?
Idk tbh.

Cacao and dark choc can both positively modulate the gut and increase dopamine. Given the majority of serotonin is produced in the gut, I think there is likley to be a link from that angle.

I do not think it has to do with neurotransmitters. I tried cypro, sjw, vortioxetine, BCAA, etc. And count the rebound effect of chronic cypro usage. It's so much different from the way that chocolate affects me. I was thinking about the vasodilator effects of cacao(possibly fixes hypoxia) but it was just a thought.

It seems the problem is copper. My ceru is low and cacao gives me real improvement.
 

Aries

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Directly proportionate to progesterone. So anything which helps increase progesterone should be helpful.
Source?

Supplemented estrogen (at least oral) raises ceruloplasmin dose dependently, progesterone administered same way doesn't. Ceruloplasmin is also usually higher follicular phase of menstrual cycle but studies show varying significance of this.

Copper supplementation effects on ceruloplasmin are influenced by menstrual cycle.
Copper and Liver Function Indicators Vary Depending on the Female Hormonal Cycle and Serum Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) Concentration in Healthy Women - PubMed
Insignificant correlation between ceruloplasmin and menstrual cycle.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...rual-Cycle-in-Women-with-Bronchial-Asthma.pdf
Ceruloplasmin higher in PCOS.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...trol_Group/links/548005a30cf2ccc7f8bb09ce.pdf
Progesterone dosage has no effect on ceruloplasmin.
Liver Metabolism During Treatment With Estradiol and Natural Progesterone - PubMed
Estrogen (synthetic) has a dose dependent effect of ceruloplasmin.
Elevation of Certain Plasma Proteins in Man Following Estrogen Administration: A Dose-Response Relationship - PubMed
Estradiol valerate small increase in ceruloplasmin. Ethinylestradiol was more potent.
Effect of Oestriol, Oestradiol Valerate and Ethinyloestradiol on Serum Proteins in Oestrogen-Deficient Women - PubMed

@Astolfo
Liver is probably affordable way to get plenty vitamin A and copper. If you get same results from it as from chocolate you know it's about the copper content of food.

Did you see this? Ceruloplasmin seems to reduce peripheral serotonin.
https://www.ejog.org/article/0028-2243(79)90003-0/pdf
 

Astolfo

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Liver is probably affordable way to get plenty vitamin A and copper. If you get same results from it as from chocolate you know it's about the copper content of food.
I'm not sure. I don't think liver gives me the same effect as cacao does, but I also don't think it means that copper is not the cause.
 

JKX

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The studies you cite on progesterone are using progestins such as progestogen and claiming bioidentical progesterone. Thats fraudulent. Ray has spoken about this alot. Those compounds have estrogenic actions.

Ceruloplasmin also increases rapidly during pregnancy along with copper usage. Several studies on humans confirm this.
 

Aries

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The studies you cite on progesterone are using progestins such as progestogen and claiming bioidentical progesterone. Thats fraudulent. Ray has spoken about this alot. Those compounds have estrogenic actions.

Ceruloplasmin also increases rapidly during pregnancy along with copper usage. Several studies on humans confirm this.
The only study I cited with progestogen supplementation used oral micronized progesterone.

Birth control as synthetic progestins+estrogen orally tend to increase ceruloplasmin though. It's likely the estrogen responsible as the above studies showed it can have this effect alone and as you said progestins generally don't reduce estrogenicity.

Progesterone is not the only endocrine change in pregnancy so it's hard to say if the raise in ceruloplasmin is caused by it. Estrogen also raises significantly for example.

Estrogen is more effective than testosterone or progesterone at raising ceruloplasmin in rats as well.
https://www.journalagent.com/ias/pdfs/IAS_3_2_143_145.pdf
 

Hans

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I'm not sure. I don't think liver gives me the same effect as cacao does, but I also don't think it means that copper is not the cause.
If the beneficial effect is immediate, then it has nothing to do with your ceruloplasmin. Immediate effects are most like due to lower cortisol and more dopamine and endorphins.
 

Astolfo

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If the beneficial effect is immediate, then it has nothing to do with your ceruloplasmin. Immediate effects are most like due to lower cortisol and more dopamine and endorphins.

Not quite immediate, it starts after about a hour. I don’t think it’s because of dopamine or cortisol because my cortisol is already on the lower range. And i don’t get the same effect from cypro withdrawal. I doubt cacao is giving me that much dopamine.

Anyway, i really wonder what’s the quickest and eaisest way to fix this ceruloplasmin problem. I have university exam a few next year and i should be studying to it right now. But instead, im mentally and cognitively deteoriated to the point that i can not longer even type words on my phone. My life is ruined and i don’t think i will continue to live like this. I have suffered for long enough, 2 years, and lost all my intelligence, higher functioning, emotions, etc. Im done.
 

JKX

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The only study I cited with progestogen supplementation used oral micronized progesterone.

Birth control as synthetic progestins+estrogen orally tend to increase ceruloplasmin though. It's likely the estrogen responsible as the above studies showed it can have this effect alone and as you said progestins generally don't reduce estrogenicity.

Progesterone is not the only endocrine change in pregnancy so it's hard to say if the raise in ceruloplasmin is caused by it. Estrogen also raises significantly for example.

Estrogen is more effective than testosterone or progesterone at raising ceruloplasmin in rats as well.
https://www.journalagent.com/ias/pdfs/IAS_3_2_143_145.pdf
Fair comments. I dont understand why the author phrased the study that way and I'm a bit suspicious that the term progestogen was snuck in there. If its just bioidentical progesterone, why not just say that and leave it at that?

I'd like to see the effects of long term supplementation in those studies though. I dont think the results would be positive, but you're right, I'm being speculative.

I do however have personal bloods that reflect ceruloplasmin increase from progesterone and this was over a 2 month period.

If short term progesterone can increase estrogen before suppressing it, it may very well be the case that short term estrogen supplementation produces an equivalent increase in progesterone, before suppressing it.
 

magnesiumania

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The RCP root cause protocol is designed to promote synthesis of ceruloplasmin levels. Mine came out as artificially elevated after following the protocol. Ive recently added thiamine and allithiamine and it does it. Low thiamine seem to have been my main factor i was lacking. Ceruloplasmin also have a circadian link so AM sunlight should help this protein function.
 

Astolfo

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The RCP root cause protocol is designed to promote synthesis of ceruloplasmin levels. Mine came out as artificially elevated after following the protocol. Ive recently added thiamine and allithiamine and it does it. Low thiamine seem to have been my main factor i was lacking. Ceruloplasmin also have a circadian link so AM sunlight should help this protein function.

Phase 0:
I'm already not doing any single thing listed under.

Phase 1:
I don't now what he means by minerals drops. i live in a 3rd world country, they don't sell things like these.
Adrenal cocktail is basically potassium, sodium and vit C? I guess taking vitamin C from foods and adding a bit of light-salt to my meals should serve enough.
I can buy some magnesium hydroxide and mix it with vinegar i guess
I can try cod liver oil, it will be expensive though
They don't sell vit E complexes, only alpha tocopherol

Phase 2:
I can only get beef liver occasionaly

Phase 3:
I can only get iodine from salt. There is nothing else i can buy or get from that list

That's all. Should it be enough? Cod liver oil, lite-salt and magnesium?

c178b06373532cc6344b685d9408cae4.jpg
 

magnesiumania

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Remember most cod liver oil is worthless and even harmful. The recommended brands are carefully selected (and Morley is not involved with that business). Pll here will tell you to be very afraid of the PUFA content of clo but Ray Peat dont even know what metabolites DHA turn into. Id say, no worry.
 
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