How To Eat Nightshades Without Being Poisoned

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Tomatine - Wikipedia

All commonly consumed nightshades, but most relevantly potatoes and tomatoes, are poisonous and can cause allergies because of their glycoalkaloids. The main glycoalkaloids are solanine, chaconine, and tomatine.

I've been wondering for a while through what mechanic these glycoalkaloids exert their poisonous effect. I always thought their structure was strange (it's like an alien looking cholesterol molecule). The only leads I had was membrane disruption and acetylcholinesterase inhibition. But no mechanics of why.

Well, I have found it: Tomatine - Wikipedia

Apparently, it forms complexes with cholesterol in the lipid membranes, and this causes disruption. I imagine it might also, when in or near cells, disrupt the ability for cells to use cholesterol for local needs, like building phospholipids or synthesizing hormones.

Best of all, I have found a method of removing any absorption of these toxins, which can maybe help people who like these foods but are allergic to them, eat them.

Because these glycoalkaloids bind to cholesterol, when cholesterol is eaten alongside them, they are bound to cholesterol, and excreted.

So, eat potatoes or tomatoes with high cholesterol foods and basically all harm would be avoided. You wouldn't need much cholesterol either.

Glycoalkaloids already have low absorption, but with cholesterol eaten alongside them I see none getting in.

It's odd how the wiki page says that tomatine has "potential health benefits", yet goes on to describe how it disrupts the gut barrier and lets macro-molecules through, ie leaky gut.
 

Xisca

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Well it can explain why I like to have eggs in tomatoe sauce!

Is your tip a logical conclusion of yours, or have you read about it?

Solanaceas are especially harming people with psoriasis, did you know this? I would be curious if you had some explanation for this, linking to your findings... Thanks
 
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BigYellowLemon
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@Xisca

No idea about the psoriasis. I don't even know the exact method of harm, and psoriasis itself is very complex. But something to note, I will get itchy face skin on the cheeks adjacent to my nose when eating nightshades sometimes. Maybe histamine.

About your other questions...

From the wiki article: "When tomatine is orally ingested, much tomatine may form complexes with cholesterol from the other food present in the stomach. The complexes of tomatine and cholesterol are not absorbed in the intestine, but are excreted.[17] For the complexation with cholesterol to occur, the presence of a carbohydrate chain is essential. The aglycon tomatidine, which is tomatine without the sugars, does not form the complexes."

Oh, I misread it slightly. I though that the part saying a "carbohydrate chain is essential" meant that the complex can only form when carbs are around, which would always be the case when eating it. But it seems that sentence is actually referring to the carbohydrate chain on the tomatin molecule.

Basically, the glycoalkaloids can only bind to cholesterole when the carbohydrate chain is still there. The carbohydrate chain is the part with a bunch of OH's.

So, the key to having these nasty toxins bound to cholesterol is to make sure they retain their carbohydrate chain. About that.

The way the human body treats unbound glycoalkaloids is to hydrolize them. Basically, they remove the carbohydrate chain. This turns them into aglycone form (the alkaloidal cholesterol alien side), which cannot bind to cholesterol. This is actually the form you absorb anyways. Normal glycoalkaloids aren't really found in the blood and cannot really be absorbed that well (though they do have bad effects on the gut lining).

So when glycoaklaloids bind to cholesterol and cannot be hydrolized, and cannot be absorbed. If they aren't bound to cholesterol, they are hydrolized to a form that cannot be bound to cholesterol, and which can be absorbed and hurt the body.

This also disproves the cholesterol membrane disruption theory. If the only part that's being absorbed in the body is the aglycone form (which cannot bind to cholesterol), then it's hurting the body in some other way, acetylcholinesterase is one. It seems to disrupt the ion balance but IDK how.

This still means having cholesterol with nightshades should remove their allergenicity. Nightshades problems seem to stem primarily from their glycoalkaloids, and if enough cholesterol is consumed with them, then there shouldn't be any glycoalkaloud left that can be hydrolyzed, and thus no glycoalkaloud will be absorbed.

So yeah, cholesterol should still fix them.

In potatoes, this should fix basically all problems. If enough cholesterol is taken with the potato, even the skins could be eaten (but I don't recommend). Not a lot of cholesterol would be needed either. The glycoalkaloid binds to the cholesterol in a 1:1 ratio, and usually there is only around 4mg glycoalkaloid in a kg of normal potatoes, IIRC. I won't calculate the exact molecular weight of cholesterol to get the exact amount, but basically any amount of food that contains cholesterol should completely bind all of the glycoalkalouds in potatoes. Potatoes with cheese, eggs, meat, will absorb all glycoalkaloids. Potato chips with soda, no.

Tomatoes (which I love as ketchup and tomato sauce) is a little trickier. It has salicyates and glutamates and tyramine and polyamines as potential allergens. But I'm not really scared of any of those, though some people might be. The glycoalkaloids are the main problem in it, and cholesterol should solve it.

Peppers should also be saved with cholesterol as well.

I repeated myself a lot just to make it clear what I was saying.
 
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BigYellowLemon
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Coconut oil as far as I know contain no cholesterol, or amounts so tiny it's basically none.

Also, just to add something, I am not sure if eating nightshades with cholesterol containing foods will make a difference. Let me explain. The glycoalkaloids bind to cholesterol and are passed without being absorbed, but this is only in free cholesterol if I understand correctly. From what I know, most cholesterol in normal food is in a phospholipids or other lipid structures. And thus the cholesterol wouldn't bind to the glycoalkaloid until the phospholipid has been broken down, and the window between being broken down and absorbed is probably small, and the area the broken down cholesterol would be at would be far from any glycoalkaoid.

The theory behind glycoalkaloids binding to cholesterol in membranes is probably from tests showing free cholesterol binds to glycoalkaloids in a test tube. But bound cholesterol in phospholipids might very well not bind to glycoalkaloids.

I will have to see how free cholesterol is in food. Cholesterol powder, if free, would very well work, but I'd like a source from food rather than from supplementation (unless supplement is cheap).
 

lvysaur

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so potatoes in coconut oil ?
plants lack cholesterol. Butter or meat fat.

In practice, they will still cause problems, even if eaten with butter or other cholesterol containing food.
I've noticed that when I eat a nice meal of meat, veggies, and potatoes, it almost always goes down smoothly, with no stomach upset or bad symptoms later on. Potatoes by themselves would sometimes be problematic. Maybe I just needed more cholesterol.
 
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I have a lot of trouble with nightshades. Here are my strategies.

1. avoid tomato products too many days in a row. A few days of eating some red sauce and then it starts to become a problem. Giving it a break makes it okay to have tomato again.

2. avoid chunks of tomatoes. Sauce seems to work out better than tomato chunks.

3. avoid any peppers at all, except small amounts of spicy peppers. Jalapeno, Serrano, Habanero, just small quantities give food a great deal of heat and taste great, but don't cause irritation because quantity is small.

4. avoid eggplant entirely.

5. white potatoes - peel before boiling. Remove eyes and don't eat green ones. No problems with occasional potatoes well-cooked as long as the skin has been removed prior to boiling.
 

Sativa

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A combination of nontoxic and easily available ingredients exist which essentially act as decoys for lectins and neutralises them. (this combo is sometimes called lectin lock)
  • N-Acetyl Glucosamine (NAG)
  • D-Mannose
  • Bladderwrack
  • Sodium Alginate
Egg whites possibly contain lectins/other undesirable enzymes. One whole egg a day might be fine, but several eggs worth of egg white could be deemed as asking for [digestive] trouble (an inherently subjective element) so best to gauge for yourself. (I just eat the yolks, don't bother with white)

(Please note that Glucosamine has properties which involve the AMPK pathway - I guess i'm being precautionary and saying that the N-acetyl version might not be suited to all.)


For the sake of my immune and digestive integrity, I don't have a habit of eating any nightshades (I do eat rice and occasionally eat oats! context: I grew up on nightshades, meat, dairy and grains)
 
J

jb116

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I have a lot of trouble with nightshades. Here are my strategies.

1. avoid tomato products too many days in a row. A few days of eating some red sauce and then it starts to become a problem. Giving it a break makes it okay to have tomato again.

2. avoid chunks of tomatoes. Sauce seems to work out better than tomato chunks.

3. avoid any peppers at all, except small amounts of spicy peppers. Jalapeno, Serrano, Habanero, just small quantities give food a great deal of heat and taste great, but don't cause irritation because quantity is small.

4. avoid eggplant entirely.

5. white potatoes - peel before boiling. Remove eyes and don't eat green ones. No problems with occasional potatoes well-cooked as long as the skin has been removed prior to boiling.
ecstatichamster, just curious why you emphasize peeling before boiling? I ask because I figured may be boiling with skin would help retain nutrients from leeching into the water which we end up dumping any way. Then of course after they're done boiling, peel them.
 

Wagner83

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ecstatichamster, just curious why you emphasize peeling before boiling? I ask because I figured may be boiling with skin would help retain nutrients from leeching into the water which we end up dumping any way. Then of course after they're done boiling, peel them.
Most of the toxins are in the skin.
 

Kartoffel

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Most of the toxins are in the skin.

And boiling is likely to further reduce the amount of glycoalkaloids, although the amount left after peeling varies significantly among different varities. Curiously, boiling will slightly increase the total amount of alkaloids, especially solanine and chaconine, in some potato varities but not in others.

Lachman, et al. (2013):Effect of peeling and three cooking methods on the content of selected phytochemicals in potato tubers with various colour of flesh, in: Food Chemistry, 138, 1189-1197.

upload_2018-5-20_22-3-27.png
 

Capt Nirvana

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Tomatine - Wikipedia

All commonly consumed nightshades, but most relevantly potatoes and tomatoes, are poisonous and can cause allergies because of their glycoalkaloids. The main glycoalkaloids are solanine, chaconine, and tomatine.

I've been wondering for a while through what mechanic these glycoalkaloids exert their poisonous effect. I always thought their structure was strange (it's like an alien looking cholesterol molecule). The only leads I had was membrane disruption and acetylcholinesterase inhibition. But no mechanics of why.

Well, I have found it: Tomatine - Wikipedia

Apparently, it forms complexes with cholesterol in the lipid membranes, and this causes disruption. I imagine it might also, when in or near cells, disrupt the ability for cells to use cholesterol for local needs, like building phospholipids or synthesizing hormones.

Best of all, I have found a method of removing any absorption of these toxins, which can maybe help people who like these foods but are allergic to them, eat them.

Because these glycoalkaloids bind to cholesterol, when cholesterol is eaten alongside them, they are bound to cholesterol, and excreted.

So, eat potatoes or tomatoes with high cholesterol foods and basically all harm would be avoided. You wouldn't need much cholesterol either.

Glycoalkaloids already have low absorption, but with cholesterol eaten alongside them I see none getting in.

It's odd how the wiki page says that tomatine has "potential health benefits", yet goes on to describe how it disrupts the gut barrier and lets macro-molecules through, ie leaky gut.
Good advice! The riper the vine-ripened tomato, the less glycoalkaloids (there are several forms of tomatine alone). Boiling won't destroy these stable phyto-biological warfare chemicals, but many of them are "thrown overboard" into the cooking water.
 
J

jb116

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Most of the toxins are in the skin.
No I get that, that isn't what I'm inquiring about. What I'm asking is why emphasis on the order? Peel first then boil.
My method is boil with the skin to retain more nutrient, then peel after boiling is done.
 

Josh

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I hope this is true because I’ve beeb eating potatoes pretty often but it’s always on my mind..

What would be better in terms of these toxins/lectins etc, white rice or white potatoes guys?
 

ExCarniv

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No wonder why "tortilla de papa" is one of my favorites foods receta-tortilla-patatas-facil.jpg

Basically boiled and sauteed potatoes mixed with eggs (and onions if you tolerate) and form like a cake.
 
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Just my :2cents:. I experienced solanine poisoning last year from potatoes. How it happened is a long story but the ultimate cause was eating a few kilos of improperly stored potatoes over the span of a few days. These potatoes were purple so I couldn't tell if their skin was turning green but they did have sprouts. I came to find out later that the potatoes had been stored in sunlight for over 6 months. Oddly, there was no bitter taste. I still have reservations about eating potatoes due to my experience.

Potatoes and the rest of the edible nightshades aren't necessarily bad. Their toxicity depends on their ripeness, storage, and the stress levels of the plant during growth. Potatoes need to be stored in the dark and most supermarkets neglect this. It's fine in the fall when potatoes are fresh but later on it's difficult to find potatoes that aren't turning green. Also, if the plant is under stress during growth, like from insect attack, it produces more solanine. Research the link between Irish potato consumption and spina bifida. White sweet potatoes are a good substitute and are superior in my opinion.

Tomatoes, peppers, and tomatillos are fine when they are ripe but unfortunately many are preferentially consumed when green. Of course some people still experience issues regardless of ripeness. Peppers for me cause acid reflux regardless of ripeness but as a true gringo I have an aversion to spicy so this is rarely an issue. Ripe tomatoes are probably the most benign nightshade fruit, especially in the form of passata/strained tomatoes.

Eggplants vary wildly. The seeds shouldn't be an issue since they aren't digestible. Salting and pouring off the resulting liquid is a good way to prepare them and I believe lowers the alkaloid levels. However, if any bitterness remains, the eggplant is toxic. It's unfortunate since its often hard to tell until the fruit has been cooked. So sometimes all the time spent preparing parmigiana di melanzane is wasted.

Then there are the commonly used nightshades like goji berries, tobacco, black nightshade, ashwagandha, etc. Individual reactions vary so listening to your body is critical. One interesting thing I've noticed among the nightshades is that they all emit the same smell. Brugmansia, eggplant, potato, carolina horsenettle, and Cape gooseberry plants all have the same smell as crushed tomato leaves. Maybe this means that all nightshade alkaloids share a similar chemical structure?
 

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