How To Build Deep Knowledge Of Physiology And Chemistry?

[S-VV]

Also, at some point, you will realise that you need some anatomical knowledge to spatially localise everything.

i hate, HATE, anatomy, so no book recommendations here. Im told kenhub is worth the monthly prize and will probably start shortly.

 

[Dobbler]

Exactly. Thats why health coaches are worthless.

That's why it would be very hard to be RP inspired health coach. It's easy to say PUFAs are toxic and you should avoid them, but try to explain that to a person who eats mainstream diet and think PUFAs are super good and satured fats are the devil. It's a battle you can't win unless you're on RP level..

 

[yerrag]

Exactly. Thats why health coaches are worthless.

Just as there are many doctors who we presume have poured through all these books, yet have come to rely on attractive medical representatives (bearing Powerpoint slides but no medical degree nor training whatsoever) for their continuing education on what the latest and greatest drugs are for their patients.

 

[cats]

@S-VV thanks for the files. I'm thinking I will start with organic chemistry first, as that seems most fundamental, and then biochemistry and physiology. I'll wait until I'm done with those to decide where I'll go next.

@yerrag I agree that this is a good, efficient approach to build very practical knowledge: using Ray's articles as a road map and then referring to relevant journal articles. However, I think there's a limit to how far you can go outside of issues that Ray hasn't specifically addressed if you don't learn the low level molecular systems involved. Having that knowledge is a critical part of how he devises his theories.

 

[S-VV]

Just as there are many doctors who we presume have poured through all these books, yet have come to rely on attractive medical representatives (bearing Powerpoint slides but no medical degree nor training whatsoever) for their continuing education on what the latest and greatest drugs are for their patients.

Absolutely agree. There are many doctors that should have their licenses revoked.

 

[S-VV]

The problem of not going deeper is that you will end up like Danny Roddy (no offense I really like him), who after 5+ years of reading peat can't be bothered to understand the glycolytic, b-oxidative, TCA and mitochondrial chain pathways.

 

[S-VV]

Try this for organic chemistry:

Tim Soderberg - Organic Chemistry With a Biological Emphasis

 

[james2388]

Exactly. Thats why health coaches are worthless.

I think you misunderstood me. You don't have to understand biochem, physics, or water structure etc to understand Ray Peat philosophies.

I'm obviously not talking about just any health coach. I'm talking about Ray Peat inspired health coaches, Danny, Josh Rubin, Matt Blackburn, Kate Deering, and possibly Chris Masterjohn to some extent and many others that consult with people. My point was, you could have an academic level of understanding, but that's not a skill, it's not providing anyone a service etc. There's a huge difference between people who pursue to study these things as a hobby, vs those as a career. I wouldn't waste my time pursuing an academic level of biology, and biochem. I can get by just fine if you've read my previous posts in this thread. I don't need to understand physics, or biochem to be able to care for my health. Many people here don't. They understand, and abstract the core level systems of the body.

I have other things to study to better my career in information technology. If I was a millionaire or retired sure I would find joy in researching these topics. But as a young guy, I know very well that if you're going to be studying bio-sciences at an academic level you might as well go to school for it and get a degree. It's the only way you'll be able to get in a lab, and all it's perks, subscription services to academic publishing, access to equipment, consultants, researchers, funding, networking with colleagues etc. Very different perspectives here on where one's life is at. If I would start over, I would get a degree and make a specialty in regenerative medicine, as we are currently at an infliction point with pharmaceuticals. When drug prices are cut down by 1/2 or 2/3, then the prospect or regenerative medicine clinics and treatments look more appealing with less government regulation.

But then why should OP cut himself short when he wants to go to the brink. Just become an MD that specializes in regenerative medicine. Then you can practice, and work in the lab. So the options:

1. MD specializing in Regenerative Medicine
2. Biochem/Biologist/Consultant working in a laboratory
3. Ray Peat Inspired Health Coach
4. Non Accredited - 'Academically' educated in Bio Sciences & Physics for recreational interest.
5. Incorporates practical Ray Peat philosophies into lifestyle and decides on a different area of study that will benefit career choice.

 

[S-VV]

I think you misunderstood me. You don't have to understand biochem, physics, or water structure etc to understand Ray Peat philosophies.

I'm obviously not talking about just any health coach. I'm talking about Ray Peat inspired health coaches, Danny, Josh Rubin, Matt Blackburn, Kate Deering, and possibly Chris Masterjohn to some extent and many others that consult with people. My point was, you could have an academic level of understanding, but that's not a skill, it's not providing anyone a service etc. There's a huge difference between people who pursue to study these things as a hobby, vs those as a career. I wouldn't waste my time pursuing an academic level of biology, and biochem. I can get by just fine if you've read my previous posts in this thread. I don't need to understand physics, or biochem to be able to care for my health. Many people here don't. They understand, and abstract the core level systems of the body.

I have other things to study to better my career in information technology. If I was a millionaire or retired sure I would find joy in researching these topics. But as a young guy, I know very well that if you're going to be studying bio-sciences at an academic level you might as well go to school for it and get a degree. It's the only way you'll be able to get in a lab, and all it's perks, subscription services to academic publishing, access to equipment, consultants, researchers, funding, networking with colleagues etc. Very different perspectives here on where one's life is at. If I would start over, I would get a degree and make a specialty in regenerative medicine, as we are currently at an infliction point with pharmaceuticals. When drug prices are cut down by 1/2 or 2/3, then the prospect or regenerative medicine clinics and treatments look more appealing with less government regulation.

But then why should OP cut himself short when he wants to go to the brink. Just become an MD that specializes in regenerative medicine. Then you can practice, and work in the lab. So the options:

1. MD specializing in Regenerative Medicine
2. Biochem/Biologist/Consultant working in a laboratory
3. Ray Peat Inspired Health Coach
4. Non Accredited - 'Academically' educated in Bio Sciences & Physics for recreational interest.
5. Incorporates practical Ray Peat philosophies into lifestyle and decides on a different area of study that will benefit career choice.

Unless you are in the never-stopping frontend frameworkJS hell-wheel, you should be able to have some time to put into academic study.

Knowledge isn't useful just to make $$$. If one day you get an unknown disease, money won't help, and neither will all the "health coaches"

 

[james2388]

Unless you are in the never-stopping frontend frameworkJS hell-wheel, you should be able to have some time to put into academic study.

Knowledge isn't useful just to make $$$. If one day you get an unknown disease, money won't help, and neither will all the "health coaches"

I think that is a bit of an overstatement to summarize that the most complex thing in IT is front end Javascript???? You certainly overstepped your boundary. Try studying for Cisco's networking certification CCIE. This is just gawking. So what you're saying is all the time one would put into academic study is best suited to heal and understand diseases? So I was correct in my recommendations, that you'll learn far more with an accredited degree and pursing this as a career and not as recreational study? Knowledge is useful to make money, that's the way the world works, especially when you need an accredited education and or license to be able to actually enter this area of academic work. Or with your personal situation maybe your intimidated to get a degree and enter these fields, maybe you're just retired.

If one day I get an unknown disease ( which there are no unknown diseases in the Ray Peat community ), money will surely help with food quality, diagnostic testing, stem cells and alternative therapies for cancer, vacation retreats, - sunlight, ocean, air quality and seeking out the best to help me. Money matters. Having all the knowledge and no use for it, is useless.

I think you have a poor attitude and detached from how the world really works, because you have some spite for the people that are actually doing something, changing lives, the health coaches that I mentioned, implementing ray peat philosophies without sending people down a worm hole of information, that has no practical application. Georgi is the guy that can clearly explain these topics for people in RP community to look into, same with Kyle Mamounis, but they are not telling anyone that they need to be an expert in these fields to get better. George abstracts very well. Rays articles abstract and show relationships very well. Georgi also is coming from a computer science background and that is how he got into academic circles focusing on computing and storing large datasets and variables in IT systems. You seem spiteful and jealous of these health coaches that are changing lives. they are getting to help people with the information they have acquired from simpler topics and be rewarded for it. I think it's horrible advice to tell anyone to study these things academically when they no inclination to get a degree, and they are trying to figure out their way at a young age.

There better off study JS or networking and make a wonderful career out of that with no degree necessary, and just keeping this health researching as a hobby, going over rays articles, podcasts, etc, a few hours a week, not a few or several hours a day. That's the difference between levels of studying.

If you know so much, and can help people solve unknown diseases, then I'm sure you can make as much as Danny does from Patreon.

 

[yerrag]

I agree that this is a good, efficient approach to build very practical knowledge: using Ray's articles as a road map and then referring to relevant journal articles. However, I think there's a limit to how far you can go outside of issues that Ray hasn't specifically addressed if you don't learn the low level molecular systems involved. Having that knowledge is a critical part of how he devises his theories.

It's fine to go into the details - if I have the time. Otherwise, I won't sweat the details.

I'd rather circle the wagons first.

I read Ray Peat, and I take care of the things that matter to all of me. At a higher level. With systemic implications. I address the availability of energy to keep me not only fully functional, but optimal with the ability to develop further. If I have an issue at a lower level that at the moment I still haven't found a solution for, because I haven't found the cause - having the energy available to support me through is the most important to me.

It took me 18 years of having high blood pressure, during which most of the time my doctors and I wasn't aware of it being a kidney issue. When I finally got around to knowing it was an issue of immune complex deposition in my kidneys, which is this year, I was glad my body didn't fail me because I have a good sugar metabolism all these years. Ray Peat made me realize the importance of what I had all these years. My kidneys never deteriorated, and my immune system never faltered. I had no incidence of fever nor flu all these years, and I've improved by getting rid of all my allergies the past 3 years - despite having a kidney condition. I never believed in what the medical books were saying anyway, that I needed to take high blood pressure medication because my blood vessels would burst, or my kidneys would deteriorate. IfI sank myself into these books without being skeptical about their ideas, and just swallow hook, line, and sinker everything they say - I'd be a complete mess right now.

There's a lot of garbage in those books as well as gold, perhaps more gold still, but you have to mine them and then extract the gold out of them. That said, I wouldn't have understood my health situation better without the benefit of the studies and books I've read. But I've also been laser-focused on researching what's most important to me. It has come at the expense of knowing everything from A to Z. But that strategy has benefited me more than it has hurt me.

Is your goal to know everything under the sun that has to do with health, drilling down into the depths of our human physiology and all the enzymes and mechanisms and substances involved? Or is your goal to improve your health without having to rely on dumb doctors and false depictions of how our body works, as taught to our dumb doctors? Are you going to swallow every little bit of drivel because it's difficult to pause and examine these false ideas because you were on a quest to cover a lot of ground? I mean, @S-VV has given you a lot of reading material. How much ground are you going to cover, and how much time are you going to spend on those books? Are you going to end up being stuck in your own quagmire, a personal Waterloo or Vietnam of sorts?

Think about what's more practical for you. I can only give you my opinion. But that's what we do anyway here, to listen to others and to make up our mind ourselves.

 

[yerrag]

What reading Peat first has helped is that as I have a start that's not encumbered by lies that's been treated as gospel truth by the mainstream. As I learn, Ray Peat exposes me to the false doctrines so pervasive in modern medical circles. This keeps me grounded to the reality of our biological being, and it keeps me from being detached by the swayings of experts who speak a convoluted language of deception. The intent to deceive and confusion is obvious. Who hasn't been confused by the ever-changing narratives of what's good and what's bad? Isn't this intended to instill a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt in us? And when that goal is achieved by media, we end up becoming good children and go back to listening to mama and papa - the mainstream medical experts.

If you had some Ray Peat in you, and by that I mean you really made the effort to not just read his articles, but to understand them as well as to internalize his message, you get to calibrate what you read from the medical books to your understanding of how the body works. For example, you tend less to see cellular integrity as much less a product of having a physical membrane, but as a matter of having a force field created out of having the energy to create a structure of order. You also get to be swayed less by the stupid doctor's babble of genes, age, and lack of exercise as the things that truly define your health. Because you know that you aren't helpless in having a say on how your body comports itself in caring for its health. Ray Peat, however, only gets so far, as you rightly say so, as he can't possibly cover everything, but he gets you on the right frame of mind to discover more truths as you are able to identify falsehoods along the way. It is the quality of thinking that you can learn from Ray Peat. It isn't the quantity of books you read through. It isn't the abundance of data either but the quality of your analysis that comes out of a deep mastery of concepts.

 

[snacks]

What reading Peat first has helped is that as I have a start that's not encumbered by lies that's been treated as gospel truth by the mainstream. As I learn, Ray Peat exposes me to the false doctrines so pervasive in modern medical circles. This keeps me grounded to the reality of our biological being, and it keeps me from being detached by the swayings of experts who speak a convoluted language of deception. The intent to deceive and confusion is obvious. Who hasn't been confused by the ever-changing narratives of what's good and what's bad? Isn't this intended to instill a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt in us? And when that goal is achieved by media, we end up becoming good children and go back to listening to mama and papa - the mainstream medical experts.

If you had some Ray Peat in you, and by that I mean you really made the effort to not just read his articles, but to understand them as well as to internalize his message, you get to calibrate what you read from the medical books to your understanding of how the body works. For example, you tend less to see cellular integrity as much less a product of having a physical membrane, but as a matter of having a force field created out of having the energy to create a structure of order. You also get to be swayed less by the stupid doctor's babble of genes, age, and lack of exercise as the things that truly define your health. Because you know that you aren't helpless in having a say on how your body comports itself in caring for its health. Ray Peat, however, only gets so far, as you rightly say so, as he can't possibly cover everything, but he gets you on the right frame of mind to discover more truths as you are able to identify falsehoods along the way. It is the quality of thinking that you can learn from Ray Peat. It isn't the quantity of books you read through. It isn't the abundance of data either but the quality of your analysis that comes out of a deep mastery of concepts.

To add to this, the level to which academic understanding is useful for a layman is highly conditioned by the state of the relevant science as well as by the ends to which the knowledge is going to put-- if I lived in the 1900s, I could spend hours reading about phrenology to inform my relationships with other people and who to trust, distrust. Now I would argue that phrenology is a sound science but MOST people would consider this to be a waste of time in terms of new ideas about human personality and the like. You can extrapolate this principle (I'm tired lol sorry I couldn't think of a better example) to biology wherein your sources are generally multiple years to multiple decades behind, wrapped up in conflicts of interest and sometimes of dubious replicability and methodology and that's EVEN IF you have access to all the resources that you would have as someone who works in a lab. As a non-academician, the best use of free time can't possibly be sifting through multiple haystacks looking for little needles of personal relevance when you can have a peripheral layman's knowledge of the topic and A/B test your way through most things. Hell, even what the convential wisdom of this particular forum holds to be good or bad is occasionally exactly backwards compared to "early peat" communities including this one itself.

Research is good and fine but since most of what YOU will experience as a result of "peating" will be n=1 with an infinite number of personal confounding considerations it's worthwhile to put personal experience mediated by research over pure research with no goal except for accumulating understandings that may or may not ever become relevant

 

[S-VV]

I think that is a bit of an overstatement to summarize that the most complex thing in IT is front end Javascript???? You certainly overstepped your boundary. Try studying for Cisco's networking certification CCIE. This is just gawking. So what you're saying is all the time one would put into academic study is best suited to heal and understand diseases? So I was correct in my recommendations, that you'll learn far more with an accredited degree and pursing this as a career and not as recreational study? Knowledge is useful to make money, that's the way the world works, especially when you need an accredited education and or license to be able to actually enter this area of academic work. Or with your personal situation maybe your intimidated to get a degree and enter these fields, maybe you're just retired.

If one day I get an unknown disease ( which there are no unknown diseases in the Ray Peat community ), money will surely help with food quality, diagnostic testing, stem cells and alternative therapies for cancer, vacation retreats, - sunlight, ocean, air quality and seeking out the best to help me. Money matters. Having all the knowledge and no use for it, is useless.

I think you have a poor attitude and detached from how the world really works, because you have some spite for the people that are actually doing something, changing lives, the health coaches that I mentioned, implementing ray peat philosophies without sending people down a worm hole of information, that has no practical application. Georgi is the guy that can clearly explain these topics for people in RP community to look into, same with Kyle Mamounis, but they are not telling anyone that they need to be an expert in these fields to get better. George abstracts very well. Rays articles abstract and show relationships very well. Georgi also is coming from a computer science background and that is how he got into academic circles focusing on computing and storing large datasets and variables in IT systems. You seem spiteful and jealous of these health coaches that are changing lives. they are getting to help people with the information they have acquired from simpler topics and be rewarded for it. I think it's horrible advice to tell anyone to study these things academically when they no inclination to get a degree, and they are trying to figure out their way at a young age.

There better off study JS or networking and make a wonderful career out of that with no degree necessary, and just keeping this health researching as a hobby, going over rays articles, podcasts, etc, a few hours a week, not a few or several hours a day. That's the difference between levels of studying.

If you know so much, and can help people solve unknown diseases, then I'm sure you can make as much as Danny does from Patreon.

I have no spite or hate for people who are trying to change their lives, on the contrary, deep admiration and respect. I reserve my hate for those that exploit sick and vulnerable people by offering “coaching”. For most of them, its just a way to make a quick buck, or would you say that all the low carb, intermittent fasting, fruitarian etc... coaches are actually restoring the health of their clients.

Im also not saying that everyone should study these topics academically. But you are actively discouraging someone who has interest in going deeper because according to you all they need is listening to the same coaches over and over. Which is not true.

You seem obsessed with IT. I wasn’t gonna say this, but oh well. My original academic background is in mathematics and computer science.Ive worked in the industry, different fields. Its really not that hard bro. Neither is CISCO or networking in general. Nor is any field in IT. Does it have a minimum IQ threshold? Yes Is it actually difficult? Nope.

 

[Recoen]

I think with research, having an overarching view of how you think the world works is helpful. When you don’t, reading an article or even a textbook, will cause you to flip flop and become confused. For example reading Maxwell’s original papers on electricity and magnetism is very different than reading a textbook on “his” equations. Ray Peat provides a framework to work off, so understanding his work to a degree, then using that lens could provide the direction you need. Some go higher and look to religion, etc for that.

 

[skycop00]

As a GRAD student in Molecular Medicine, I can certainly vouch for that !!!

If you want to understand, you have to read studies.
To read studies means that you have to learn the language they use.
To learn this language, you need to focus mostly on “mainstream” books: for biochem id recommend lehninger, and for physiology you can get constazo, tho guyton goes into more detail. Also the classic “molecular biology of the cell”. However you could start with organic chemistry if you dont know about it. User travis recommended a great free book, cant remember what it was.

After that you have a great base for expanding: pharmacology katzung, roitts essential immunology etc...

Basically you need to learn what the rules are before breaking them, if not, you will be stuck in sequentially adopting views purely by the fact that they oppose the mainstream, without understanding them.

Anothe warning: you will always feel that you dont know nearly enough, and that there is still so much more to learn. Get comfortable with that feeling, because its never leaving

 

[yerrag]

Research is good and fine but since most of what YOU will experience as a result of "peating" will be n=1 with an infinite number of personal confounding considerations it's worthwhile to put personal experience mediated by research over pure research with no goal except for accumulating understandings that may or may not ever become relevant

Exactly. And the encompassing research may not be useful when it's filled with wrong ideas. Knowing so much that's wrong can't be better than knowing the so little that's right. At least with the little that you got right, you can build on. And with the limited scope, you're able to gain confidence in the subject matter. Knowing the subject matter counts a lot. At the start, you may revere someone as an expert. Like a car mechanic. But when you become a good car mechanic yourself, you realize that guy is not such an expert, and looking back, that blown engine came about because he doesn't have his marbles all put together.

If you're the one being fixed, it pays to have someone who knows fixing you. Given how hard it is to find someone like that - be it a doctor, whether conventional or holistic, or TCM or Ayurvedic or homeopathic, or be it a coach - it pays to be a micromanager than a delegator (as business wonks of Ivy League schools like to preach ad nauseum), as almost everyone else pretty much sucks.

 

[pauljacob]

There are many ways to skin a cat. I went about it with no clear path on how I was going to do it, but I started with reading Ray Peat's many articles on his website, as well as listen to interviews by good interviewers of his. Like Jodelle Fit and Patrick Timpone. His articles are long and heavy on the mind, so the lightness of the interviews give me a break. I listen to these interviews when I'm driving my car, where it's easier to not be distracted.

I'll encounter terms and topics that I'm not familiar with reading his articles and his newsletters, and I'll go more in-depth into them, usually using Youtube to learn. It's as if I'm going to college as these lectures are splendid, and the nice thing about lectures is that they don't have a tendency to speak over you.

This cannot be said when you're reading studies. Most researchers have lousy English -poor vocabulary, have a tendency to use gobbledygook which only their colleagues will understand, and have poor sentence construction. Hence reading studies can be quite difficult. They confuse more than they elucidate, and leave the reader to feel he is not at all capable of understanding anything. Sometimes, this is intentional on the part of the authors. A lot of their language is intended to have double meanings, and often you would get confused on what is really the cause and what is the effect.

Ray Peat's articles don't do these things. If you can read through a Ray Peat article, you pass the first test of schloarship, in my opinion. Ray Peat doesn't spoonfeed you, and he sometimes will speak over you, but then it's hard not to when you're a beginner. Ray won't break down to the basic some concepts, as it's assumed you have enough aptitude to learn these concepts on your own, especially with the easy availability of information on the internet. Don't be in a hurry to finish reading all the articles he's written over the years, as that's not going to help you much. Instead, pick an article that interests you (I usually do a search on a term to come up with a list of articles to choose from). Read to understand and not just to read to finish. If you come across a term you don't understand, don't go past it. Research it, and then continue reading. Of course, it helps that you're not distracted by social media. Otherwise, you're screwed.

Lastly, the forum helps a lot. Once in a while, someone will share with you an article that's gold. Be on the lookout for these nuggets. There are also a lot of other materials that's not related to your specific focus to health here. Indulge in them to break from the monotony, but still stay focused. As years go by, you'll just be amazed how much you've learned without being so much structured as much as being engaged. It will all tie together in the end. The subjects you amassed will be the ones that are more relevant and useful to your health, and the ones you missed, you were never going to find them useful anyway. What you don't miss you won't miss.

Aim for depth and not for breadth. With breadth, you get all the bad ideas that come along with mainstream medical education. You learn stuff like active pumps that are constructs of devious minds pretending to know science. You learn fictitious causes of diseases that lead you on a wild goose chase. You learn to use blood tests that are nowhere as useful as touted and not worth their weight in gold. Get your basics and concepts right, and you'll analyze data well and troubleshoot problems well. Don't be too smitten with the certainty of an endless round of blood tests, but learn to do with less and make up for it with good analysis using a good handle of probability and logic.

Your learn best when you apply what you learned in your daily lives. Whether you want to let your body do the heavy lifting for you or whether you want to let substances do them for you, or whether you want to decide to strike a balance between the two, you are the one in control of your decisions. You'll have your share of alternate opinions in the forum to help shake the confusion and clutter in your mind.

Thank you yerrag, yours is the most practical advice, and the one I will use in learning. Especially your advice to "aim for depth and not for breadth." I found that to aim for depth helps me learn and memorize faster, while going for breadth I spread myself all over the learning compass and at the end of the day, I've learned little or nothing.