How often does thyroid receptor resistance happened in people that dont tolerate thyroid?

FitnessMike

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5. Receptor resistance.

Being hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors is downgraded; the T3 just wont go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do actually come on line again. But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up gradually.

 
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bk_

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Is this a quote? Where did you get this from?

Ray Peat has written about receptors being a theory and doesn’t subscribe to it. The question is are there thyroid receptors? Or are there enzymes and cofactors upon which it acts within the cell? Are there epigenetic factors for protein expressions that manufacture these enzymes or cofactors that are effected by hypothyroidism, stress, or nutritional deficiencies?
 

FitnessMike

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Is this a quote? Where did you get this from?

Ray Peat has written about receptors being a theory and doesn’t subscribe to it. The question is are there thyroid receptors? Or are there enzymes and cofactors upon which it acts within the cell? Are there epigenetic factors for protein expressions that manufacture these enzymes or cofactors that are effected by hypothyroidism, stress, or nutritional deficiencies?
yes sorry its a quote, i was just contemplating if this might be the reason that i don't tolerate thyroid. Link above.
 

bk_

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yes sorry its a quote, i was just contemplating if this might be the reason that i don't tolerate thyroid. Link above.
I see, thanks. To better understand your circumstances, what thyroid medication are you on? Do you have Hashimotos? How’s your rT3?

Ray Peat has mentioned with experimental evidence and clinical observations that high doses of the T4 hormone that are typically prescribed cause further hypothyroidism. It is understood that most T4 is metabolized in the liver where it is converted to the more active T3 hormone. There are also problems with Hashimotos or related autoimmune driven disorders and rT3.
 

Jessie

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I think you probably mean the transport proteins, not receptors. The impairment of transport proteins is probably quite common, especially in people who consume a lot of PUFA and/or have endotoxin issues.
 

FitnessMike

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I see, thanks. To better understand your circumstances, what thyroid medication are you on? Do you have Hashimotos? How’s your rT3?

Ray Peat has mentioned with experimental evidence and clinical observations that high doses of the T4 hormone that are typically prescribed cause further hypothyroidism. It is understood that most T4 is metabolized in the liver where it is converted to the more active T3 hormone. There are also problems with Hashimotos or related autoimmune driven disorders and rT3.
I stopped taking any as barely anything my body can use, and it gets accumulated in the bloodstream to high levels with low doses, i tried all ndt/t3/t4/mix, im quite sure its due to suboptimal cortisol but was considering other options. i believe i do have Hashimoto's but never tested rt3.
 

FitnessMike

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I think you probably mean the transport proteins, not receptors. The impairment of transport proteins is probably quite common, especially in people who consume a lot of PUFA and/or have endotoxin issues.
could that cause unused hormone buildup in the bloodstream from the supplementation exogenously? I wonder which ones from the points in the link would cause the accumulation of the hormones in the body and not allowing the body to utilize these hormones, apart from the suboptimal cortisol as i know it might be the case.
 

Jessie

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Most definitely. Transthyretin and albumin are critical for carrying active hormone to your cells. When they become impaired by something (PUFA, endotoxin, vit A toxicity are most common) the thyroid hormone just builds up in the serum, never entering the cell. Blood tests have no way to determine the status of your transport proteins. This is why monitoring your pulse, temps, and mood is important. In theory, these methods are better for determining how much thyroid is actually being carried into the cell. It would be prudent to keep track of EVERYTHING though.

In reality, there's only so much that can go wrong with the thyroid. Either the gland itself is deficient, and not making enough T4 out of the raw materials (tyrosine, iodine, etc.), not enough liver glycogen to convert T4 into T3, or something is impairing your transport proteins. Between knowing your TSH, T4, T3, rT3, pulse, temps, mood, digestion, protein intake, and carbohydrate intake you should have a pretty clear picture of where the problem may be.
 

Risingfire

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5. Receptor resistance.

Being hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors is downgraded; the T3 just wont go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do actually come on line again. But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up gradually.

100mcgs is full replacement. This article suggests 300 mcg. That's insane


Do you supplement with liver and oysters when you take thyroid?
 

Elize

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I stopped taking any as barely anything my body can use, and it gets accumulated in the bloodstream to high levels with low doses, i tried all ndt/t3/t4/mix, im quite sure its due to suboptimal cortisol but was considering other options. i believe i do have Hashimoto's but never tested rt3.
How did you clear the accumulated hormones out of your bloodstream?
 

FitnessMike

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Most definitely. Transthyretin and albumin are critical for carrying active hormone to your cells. When they become impaired by something (PUFA, endotoxin, vit A toxicity are most common) the thyroid hormone just builds up in the serum, never entering the cell. Blood tests have no way to determine the status of your transport proteins. This is why monitoring your pulse, temps, and mood is important. In theory, these methods are better for determining how much thyroid is actually being carried into the cell. It would be prudent to keep track of EVERYTHING though.

In reality, there's only so much that can go wrong with the thyroid. Either the gland itself is deficient, and not making enough T4 out of the raw materials (tyrosine, iodine, etc.), not enough liver glycogen to convert T4 into T3, or something is impairing your transport proteins. Between knowing your TSH, T4, T3, rT3, pulse, temps, mood, digestion, protein intake, and carbohydrate intake you should have a pretty clear picture of where the problem may be.
Well i know it barely gets into the cell because my pulse is low thru the day, i have fitbit i have everything on the app. My temps are perfect but thats due to stress hormones so i dont follow temps.

Whenever i take thyroid or even black cumin seed oil, my pulse get nice for few days up to a week, and then it goes back to baseline, im quite sure its happening due to low adrenal reserve but im not 100% sure.

Thanks for the advices, its really wise.
 

Jessie

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Well i know it barely gets into the cell because my pulse is low thru the day, i have fitbit i have everything on the app. My temps are perfect but thats due to stress hormones so i dont follow temps.

Whenever i take thyroid or even black cumin seed oil, my pulse get nice for few days up to a week, and then it goes back to baseline, im quite sure its happening due to low adrenal reserve but im not 100% sure.
Have you tried vitamin C loading? Taking several grams of vitamin C daily can help normalize cortisol. Eating plenty of sugar and cholesterol helps too.
 

FitnessMike

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Have you tried vitamin C loading? Taking several grams of vitamin C daily can help normalize cortisol. Eating plenty of sugar and cholesterol helps too.
I eat plenty of carbs daily but need to watch out for sugars including fruits as they cause low blood sugar, but it almost is gone now since im taking adrenal cortex daily, my cholesterol is decent, i never did vit c loading, i dont know how it would help me?. My cortisol is suboptimal due to either HPA axis dysfunction from chronic stress that was caused by unaddressed hypothyroidism, or simply from the fact that there is not enough t3 getting to adrenals? brain? and it cannot make enough cortisol as a result.

I will try now for a while only the adrenal cortex and few others im using to support cortisol (liquorice and rehmannia tincture). Because up until now i was either taking thyroid or black cumin seed oils along with cortisol support.

Its hard to explain but basically ever since i discovered im hypothyroid less than a year ago, and started trying supplementing different thyroid meds on different ways/dosages and so on, i was able for the first time in few years fall back asleep at 3am, the problem was that whatever the dosage i used, it eventually accumulated in the serum causing an overload of the hormone and eventually high adrenaline. I then found out that my saliva cortisol is ok in the morning but suboptimal in the afternoon and barely optimal in the evening. Then i found few resources that say you need to support cortisol for few weeks before restarting your thyroid slowly. The problem with that was that once i stopped thyroid i could no more fall back asleep from this 3am right, so i never could fulfil this protocol of supporting cortisol prior to supplementing with thyroid hormones. Now i discovered aspirin, shout out to @Hans, and it seems that it helps my body to utilize thyroid hormones at night better when i take 600mg before bed, so im hoping now i will be able to support my adrenals for a like month without supplementing thyroid. All thyroid supps and also black cumin seed oil strongly reduce?use up? cortisol and acth?, well see today was first day with only cortisol support. It was just too long before i discovered its hypothyroidism, i was fooled by the super helpful """hormones norm ranges""" meh.
 

Jessie

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I eat plenty of carbs daily but need to watch out for sugars including fruits as they cause low blood sugar, but it almost is gone now since im taking adrenal cortex daily, my cholesterol is decent, i never did vit c loading, i dont know how it would help me?. My cortisol is suboptimal due to either HPA axis dysfunction from chronic stress that was caused by unaddressed hypothyroidism, or simply from the fact that there is not enough t3 getting to adrenals? brain? and it cannot make enough cortisol as a result.

I will try now for a while only the adrenal cortex and few others im using to support cortisol (liquorice and rehmannia tincture). Because up until now i was either taking thyroid or black cumin seed oils along with cortisol support.

Its hard to explain but basically ever since i discovered im hypothyroid less than a year ago, and started trying supplementing different thyroid meds on different ways/dosages and so on, i was able for the first time in few years fall back asleep at 3am, the problem was that whatever the dosage i used, it eventually accumulated in the serum causing an overload of the hormone and eventually high adrenaline. I then found out that my saliva cortisol is ok in the morning but suboptimal in the afternoon and barely optimal in the evening. Then i found few resources that say you need to support cortisol for few weeks before restarting your thyroid slowly. The problem with that was that once i stopped thyroid i could no more fall back asleep from this 3am right, so i never could fulfil this protocol of supporting cortisol prior to supplementing with thyroid hormones. Now i discovered aspirin, shout out to @Hans, and it seems that it helps my body to utilize thyroid hormones at night better when i take 600mg before bed, so im hoping now i will be able to support my adrenals for a like month without supplementing thyroid. All thyroid supps and also black cumin seed oil strongly reduce?use up? cortisol and acth?, well see today was first day with only cortisol support. It was just too long before i discovered its hypothyroidism, i was fooled by the super helpful """hormones norm ranges""" meh.
Vitamin C is critical for the production of optimal cortisol levels. When it falls to low, vitamin C infusions can be used to bring it back up. Like this for example. When taking vitamin C orally, it's hard to match the effectiveness of intravenous infusions, so loading is recommended. I can't say for sure how much you'll need, or if it'll even work. But I've read where people have used up to 20 grams over an entire day before to stabilize cortisol. If it doesn't work you could always go down the hydrocortisone road. I do think it would be best to try the natural ways first.
 

FitnessMike

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Most definitely. Transthyretin and albumin are critical for carrying active hormone to your cells. When they become impaired by something (PUFA, endotoxin, vit A toxicity are most common) the thyroid hormone just builds up in the serum, never entering the cell. Blood tests have no way to determine the status of your transport proteins. This is why monitoring your pulse, temps, and mood is important. In theory, these methods are better for determining how much thyroid is actually being carried into the cell. It would be prudent to keep track of EVERYTHING though.

In reality, there's only so much that can go wrong with the thyroid. Either the gland itself is deficient, and not making enough T4 out of the raw materials (tyrosine, iodine, etc.), not enough liver glycogen to convert T4 into T3, or something is impairing your transport proteins. Between knowing your TSH, T4, T3, rT3, pulse, temps, mood, digestion, protein intake, and carbohydrate intake you should have a pretty clear picture of where the problem may be.
That's very interesting about vitamin C, i would have to find out what form of vit c isn't too acidic as acidic fruits make my bladder very weak and worsening my urination at night. For now, i stick with cortex and i don't believe my cortisol is low to the point that i need HC. Sodium ascorbate I'm thinking should have higher PH?
 

FitnessMike

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You're cheating yourself if you don't. When you increase your metabolism, you need more vitamin A and zinc. You need to have 4 oz of liver and 5+ oysters a week. I see it as non-negotiable
I do eat eggs and take 5000IU of retinol, zinc i was supplementing for long time with copper but still white spots on the nails, just received my home kit for the copper/zinc/mag/calcium so i will know more next week.
 
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