How Many Times To Masturbate A Week

Cirion

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I have basically the same experiences as @DaveFoster. When I ate anything and everything Nathan Hatch style, I often had euphoric states of mind but also got not just fat but obese. It's why I now weigh 280 lbs. I am also having to go down the same path as Dave which is basically a McDougall starch diet (Though I also still have some fruit), virtually zero fat diet and that's the only way to control my weight. I tried T3 for a while but it did exactly two things for me - Jack and Squat. It did not make me feel better nor did it let me eat more without getting fat. In fact in many ways T3 made me feel worse.

Eating dietary fat is just going to make you fat. At least, it did for me. Because I'm hypo, I guess.

@ilikecats I like your contributions to this forum I really do but sometimes man, I think you get a little overly antognistic for no reason. I really don't want to add fuel to the flame, but some of your quotes really bother me sometimes man. I will attempt to be as neutral as possible though.

Who's the one discrediting peoples experience? Tarmander made a sweeping definitive statement implying that touching yourself will lead to a loss of a desire to improve ones life and that it directly harms you by generating "comfort". You then went from "this is my experience" to "the science says that jerking it greatly increases prolactin and estrogen there by harming the organism. You shouldn't do it." without any evidence to back this up. So that's one of my problems with your position. But even if you did just say, "hey this is my just me personal experience" I'd still say that the placebo effect is still a valid POSSIBILITY to bring up and exploring why this might produce a placebo effect for you might be worth while (your christian upbringing might give some possible answers). But normally I wouldn't bring that up but you being snarky and then making made up statements about the effects of masturbation on human physiology kind of warrant it. I personally don't think you really have the mental faculties (at the time being) to properly assess your own experience and you've proven this quite a few times on this forum. As for the "appeal to an authority", sure you can label it that way to try to make a dig on me but I think it's good to get input on this from someone who actually understands human physiology on a deep level instead of just listening to your opinion based off your very limited knowledge of human physiology. It would seem to me to be a good idea to add it in as PART of an intelligent approach to answering this question. PART of a valid problem solving methodology.

Again, YEARS of experience on nofap (probably 5 yrs now) and BTW I nofapped when I was in the best health of my life -- not just when unhealthy, so yes, I feel like I have some authority to speak on this matter. In fact, nofap was initially instrumental to gaining my health in the first place! Which is why it's a crucial piece of my strategy. It helped when I was unhealthy, it also helped dramatically when I was healthy. Again, experience trumps "scientific research" and people with Ph.D's. I may not have a Ph.D. but my IQ is actually pretty far above average, so even though I may be unhealthy, I'm not an idiot. I consider myself pretty wise and able to piece things together. Sure I don't know everything, but that's why I am here and learning. I'll grant you I don't have this kind of experience on some of my other theories, but as far as nofap - I consider that a closed/sealed deal. I literally don't need knowledge of physiology to know it helps me. I don't need any evidence except my own experiences. Blindly listening to "evidence" like excess caffeine intake, excess sugar intake, excess T3 intake, excess saturated fat intake, among many others, is in fact what got me unhealthy in the first place! So no, I don't care about "evidence". I share a lot of Dave's sentiments in that regard. I grant you that many theories that I have only a few days or weeks or even months of experience on, aren't solid enough for me to say is a sealed deal, but I consider 5 yrs a very long time in comparison. True I may not currently be in my optimal state of mind, but I've always considered myself wise and btw I still managed a 4.0 in undergrad school (mechanical engineering) at the unhealthiest in my life. So even at my worst, I have pretty good mind power. I'm definitely excited for what I'll accomplish in life when I actually feel good =)

"Plasma testosterone was measured every 15 min for 3 1/2 hr in eight male subjects before, during, and after the showing of a sexually explicit movie. There was an average increase of 35% in testosterone. The maximum concentration was observed 60–90 min after the end of the film. No increase was found in eight control subjects who saw a sexually neutral film."

Yeah that's only a short term study and I'm actually not surprised. I'm more interested in long term studies. There have never been long-term studies on nofap and no I don't count the 7 day study as long term, I'd be more interested in something like a 7 month study. Also there seems to be no mention of studies of the effect of full PMO. The most damaging effects of PMO is the "O" aspect of it. Too many confounding factors, so this is not at all a conclusive study. I'm 100% confident that nofap is the answer but I'd still be curious to see studies proving my experiences. In the spirit of being truly unbiased though I did hear an anecdote one time about a guy who doubled his testosterone levels to almost steroid levels after visiting Thailand I believe it was and messing around with a ton of hot hookers. I need more stories like that to be more conclusive, but my working theory is that having sex with a lot of different hot women (not porn) probably boosts testosterone but that too much sex with the same woman (Unless its karezza) reduces androgens -- Which is why men often stray because they get "Bored". Karezza is the only way to avoid the inevitable "Boredom" unless avoiding monogamy is your goal. There are many theories, but a simple theory is that the guy boosted his T levels astronomically because having sex with a new hot woman really primes the "animal mind" in a man to feel like he is "winning" at life. Winning has been proven to drastically increase testosterone levels. Being with the same woman doesn't activate the "winning" pathway though.

I will say though that I have come to realize we as humans are nothing but a collection of experiences. Our realities and beliefs are mostly shaped by our experiences. What I've experienced is different from you, therefore we fundamentally have different belief systems. As such it is "reality and truth for me", but because I admit human physiology can be complex, may not be "reality and truth for you", necessarily (I think it is, but whatever).
 
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Cirion

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Ah, trip down memory lane ;) Yeah, I remember that. I am open minded but there is literally nothing that will change my mind on this, because I have countless years of experience on it. I confess I can and have changed my mind on many things, but I'm quite confident this will not be one of them.

So yeah, studies simply can not discount my personal experience. And not just my own, but many other people I know, one guy in particular, that also achieved his optimal life via nofap and still follows it today and btw he also counts it as his #1 secret weapon. He doesn't post here, I met him back the last time I was pretty healthy from another forum, I think it was the anabolicmen forums. I learned a lot from him. It was this guy that actually led me to Ray Peat, after he taught me that carbohydrates are the secret to a robust metabolism. We disagreed on sugar though =P (He prefers starch/straight glucose) It's this guy in particular I owe a lot to and a lot of my theories and experiences to.

Look, even though I know nothing will change my mind, I am curious to see unbiased studies that don't have confounding factors, just to prove my points, but I don't think anyone has done a proper one. looking at a study of only one week of nofap is literally the same as a study that looks at a keto diet for only week let alone hours or minutes. You can't judge either with only one week. Both take much longer than a week to take full effect.
 
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Amazoniac

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Ah, trip down memory lane ;) Yeah, I remember that. I am open minded but there is literally nothing that will change my mind on this, because I have countless years of experience on it.

So yeah, studies simply can not discount my personal experience. And not just my own, but many other people I know, one guy in particular, that also achieved his optimal life via nofap and still follows it today and btw he also counts it as his #1 secret weapon. He doesn't post here, I met him back the last time I was pretty healthy from another forum, I think it was the anabolicmen forums. I learned a lot from him. It was this guy that actually led me to Ray Peat, after he taught me that carbohydrates are the secret to a robust metabolism. We disagreed on sugar though =P (He prefers starch/straight glucose) It's this guy in particular I owe a lot to and a lot of my theories and experiences to.
Check this out, it's pretty relevant:
- The Protective Side Of Sickness Behavior In Inflammation And Infections

But I'm with those that favor minimizing it regardless of wealth state. Well, unless when the fantasy involves toes, or urine, or whip and handcuff, leather, needles, certain animals, some insects, children (but not babies), and cadavers.
 

Cirion

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Well we can definitely agree at least based upon that, that it's probably best to prioritize survival (healing) over reproduction when sick which more or less also agrees with my overall sentiments. I guess the disagreement that remains is, whether or not it's optimal even when healthy. I personally think it is, again based upon personal experience (I haven't always been unhealthy) but that seems to be the primary point of contention but can agree that the delta of health effects when unhealthy vs. healthy is probably less. Actually, it might be the same, but the delta PERCENTAGE may be less, and we're going to feel delta %'s more than delta absolute differences, and thus the differences may be felt more strongly when unhealthy (But I definitely noticed it while well, also). So maybe overall positive hormones are let's say 40% better when unhealthy but only 10-20% better when healthy. In that case, the effects are clearly going to be more noticeable when unhealthy. I am greatly simplifying it by reducing it to one number, but you get the point.
 

MatheusPN

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4,5 days without ejaculation and today I had a nocturnal emission. I imagine that Gonadin especially, Pan and Andro, may be involved, even spending 3 days without using them before
What if cypro is used at low body fat and more muscle mass than average? I wanted to try cypro, but haven't yet due to its tendency to increase body fat...
I used Cypro for years in my: childhood, adolescence and now Peating. I never gained weight with it, just appetite

Appetite and calories, have always been uncoupled to my weight

The only thing that made me gain weight, now adult, was consuming full fat dairy (Skim or low fat would be more peat), 5,5 kg heavier, eating 3X less than my previous stage, vegan peating
 
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Dobbler

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He understands Dr. Peat's mode of thought on an experienced, almost masterful level. If it's of any consequence, I've inhaled CO2 for hours at a time and noticed some thyroid-like effects. I e-mailed Danny Roddy about it actually, and he's never tried a similar set-up.

I've actually been taking four grains of thyroid, but then I dropped it to three and then two. I tested rT3 while on three and it came out at the high-end. I e-mailed Ray and he told me that a lower level corresponds to better thyroid function, so even the 1:4 ratio in NDT (Idea Labs DC's TyroMax) had elevated it. I'm wary of adding T3, but I think @lampofred is correct in his endorsement of progesterone. Nathan Hatch (@natedawggh) swore by progesterone, and I'm unsure as to whether thyroid can substitute. I've always wanted to believe that "thyroid is all you need," but reality's more complex.

The main problem is that, at least for me, cyproheptadine does function as a "wonder-drug," but it causes such ridiculous weight gain. So, maybe larger amounts of progesterone would be helpful. Dr. Peat has recommended around 1,200 mg daily to some with cancer, so lampofred's phrase, "drown yourself in progesterone," doesn't necessarily clash with Ray's advice at all.

I think the high altitude offers some benefits unobtainable by substances, else why would Dr. Peat live there? That's another complex issue, though.

Another thing that's always confused me: more developed nations consume more fat, but Dr. Peat thinks 40 grams "is enough." He's also said that the diet should be around 50% fat, though. He does recommend a lower amount because of the PUFA and because larger amounts of fat can make you fat! o_O From this, I can only conclude that Dr. Peat thinks that 50% of calories consumed should be from fully hydrogenated coconut oil, but that seems absurd. Nathan Hatch solved his health problems by literally drinking cream, and he lost weight, but Dr. Peat says that this should make him gain fat instead!

Vegans are aggressive and insane; I actually work around them. This starch-based, <5% fat McDougall diet is literally making me crazy. I feel like Westside PUFAs, but I am losing weight.
Why haven't you tried using T3 only and progesterone combined?
Also if starch makes you feel bad then why not eat skim milk and fruits? Why force starch? It's not any easier or even cheaper than using fruits, milk.
 

Cirion

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Honestly, in my personal opinion Nathan Hatch only saw the gains on high fat eating because of -- admittedly masterful -- manipulation of supplementation that I'm not willing to go through the trouble to do at this point. I read a lot of his book and to be honest, he promotes a lot of convoluted and complex supplementation strategies and it was hard for me to derive a clear cut plan from the madness. I have no doubt what he did worked for him, but he took progesterone, thyroid, and many other substances concurrently with his eating. Any normal joe eating a high fat high carb diet is very likely to just get fat (Just like I did). My personal experience seems to be showing me eating low fat diet is just as important as low PUFA -- at least while in the recovery/PUFA depletion phase. Probably because if you eat a high fat diet but low PUFA, your body isn't motivated to burn/purge the PUFA's currently stored in your body. My strategies I am developing involve little to no supplements of any kind and thus feel it is more sustainable in the long run, not to mention easier to figure out ... I finally realized that screwing around with supplements is like chasing your tail, you just aren't ever going to "get it" that way unless you get lucky and/or are extremely meticulous (OCD?) about figuring out what combos of supplements, what dosages, in what contexts help and which don't... that's too much of a pain for me. Unless maybe you're like haidut and have the finances and means to take detailed blood tests after introducing each and every supplement you take. Some day in my future when I am rich this might indeed be something I play with, but unless you know precisely how each and every supplement and hormone you intake is adjusting all of the entire hormone cascade, I don't think most supplements are worth the risk.
 

Amazoniac

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Well we can definitely agree at least based upon that, that it's probably best to prioritize survival (healing) over reproduction when sick which more or less also agrees with my overall sentiments. I guess the disagreement that remains is, whether or not it's optimal even when healthy. I personally think it is, again based upon personal experience (I haven't always been unhealthy) but that seems to be the primary point of contention but can agree that the delta of health effects when unhealthy vs. healthy is probably less. Actually, it might be the same, but the delta PERCENTAGE may be less, and we're going to feel delta %'s more than delta absolute differences, and thus the differences may be felt more strongly when unhealthy (But I definitely noticed it while well, also). So maybe overall positive hormones are let's say 40% better when unhealthy but only 10-20% better when healthy. In that case, the effects are clearly going to be more noticeable when unhealthy. I am greatly simplifying it by reducing it to one number, but you get the point.
The idea was that if (for example) the person doesn't take a break from it when sick, it's a signal to the prioritorizoidtaioivatnoon of reproduction over recuperation, and it's going to be just one more challenge in the way of recovery. For someone that is already depleted, it's obvious that it's going to be taxing when considering the net effect.
 

Ron J

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4,5 days without ejaculation and today I had a nocturnal emission. I imagine that Gonadin especially, Pan and Andro, may be involved, even spending 3 days without using them before

I used Cypro for years in my: childhood, adolescence and now Peating. I never gained weight with it, just appetite

Appetite and calories, have always been uncoupled to my weight

The only thing that made me gain weight, now adult, was consuming full fat dairy (Skim or low fat would be more peat), 5,5 kg heavier, eating 3X less than my previous stage, vegan peating
Thanks. Hopefully I wont either.
 

ilikecats

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@Cirion If you want to take jabs at me you shouldn't get so frustrated when I jab back. I do have some social grace. What I told you has been my opinion for quite awhile I just don't go around saying it out of a desire to not hurt your feelings. But the combination of your jab at me plus a context of where that assessment is very relevant made me think I should bring it up. A lot of "intelligent" people have significantly impaired intelligence in certain subsets of thinking and reasoning. Think about all the doctors with genius I.Q.s recommending cooking with soy bean oil and prescribing statins. I remember seeing the supplement list (there must have been 100 things on there) for someone with one of the highest IQs ever recorded and he was taking dutasteride to "protect his prostate". I usually go out of my way to try to help you. I warned you about your high fat intake and your iodine supplementation (both times you wrote me off but since have changed your position).
 

Cirion

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@Cirion If you want to take jabs at me you shouldn't get so frustrated when I jab back. I do have some social grace. What I told you has been my opinion for quite awhile I just don't go around saying it out of a desire to not hurt your feelings. But the combination of your jab at me plus a context of where that assessment is very relevant made me think I should bring it up. A lot of "intelligent" people have significantly impaired intelligence in certain subsets of thinking and reasoning. Think about all the doctors with genius I.Q.s recommending cooking with soy bean oil and prescribing statins. I remember seeing the supplement list (there must have been 100 things on there) for someone with one of the highest IQs ever recorded and he was taking dutasteride to "protect his prostate". I usually go out of my way to try to help you. I warned you about your high fat intake and your iodine supplementation (both times you wrote me off but since have changed your position).

Fair enough man. I never backpedaled on iodine though. I mostly hold my opinions on that still. I just stopped taking it because I don't want to risk any supplementation of anything unless I have a steady supply of bloodwork going on giving me an exact picture as to what's going on in my body, so I don't supplement anything anymore at all unless you count caffeine which I get from coffee and mexican cokes, but I don't do caffeine pill. Yeah those people who take 100 supplements are just ridiculous, unless they have bloodwork before and after each and every supplement that clearly demonstrates their efficacy. I plan to do this one day, but my current financial situation wouldn't allow me to do this proper justice. Those who supplement without the information/bloodwork are ignorant and not smart. I completely agree. Also a lot of doctors are not smart. You just need good memory, not good IQ, to be a doctor. Memorization is the hard part of med school. It's one reason I never considered it. I knew I didn't have the memory to pull it off =P

My mistake has been trusting people based upon the whole appeal to authority, now I am my own authority, which is how I should have done it from the start. That said, it would be unfair to blame anyone but myself to trust other people, so I don't really blame the people who led me astray (A very well known person from these forums told me to eat dietary fat liberally, my gut actually agreed with you almost from the start about reducing dietary fat), I blame myself. But I know better now. You make a good point, but the difference between most other people and myself (Not saying you are "other people" necessarily) is I do actually care what's truth but not what someone says the truth is. Ray Peat is one of many people I greatly respect but I absolutely disagree with him on some things. To me, personal experience is the purest form of truth you can get. That's why I'm such a strong advocate of my experiences. If my experiences (personal truth) discounts RP, or others, you bet I will go with my experience over an "Expert". It's taken me going through half a dozen or more personal coaches to realize - No one can help you. Only you can help yourself.
 
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DaveFoster

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What if cypro is used at low body fat and more muscle mass than average? I wanted to try cypro, but haven't yet due to its tendency to increase body fat. Also, have you tried something else that's almost as good as cypro and doesn't increase body fat? I've been using famotidine(20mg) several times a week, but I don't know how it compares to other anti-serotonin drugs.
Famotidine has some indirect anti-serotonin effects but it's not technically a serotonin antagonist. Cyprohepatdine works on so many mechanisms simultaneously, but it's related to the tricyclic and tetracyclic antidepressants. I enjoy the anxiety reduction.

Maybe if you eat nothing but protein, then the weight gain would be minimal, but that's grossly unhealthy.

I have basically the same experiences as @DaveFoster. When I ate anything and everything Nathan Hatch style, I often had euphoric states of mind but also got not just fat but obese. It's why I now weigh 280 lbs. I am also having to go down the same path as Dave which is basically a McDougall starch diet (Though I also still have some fruit), virtually zero fat diet and that's the only way to control my weight. I tried T3 for a while but it did exactly two things for me - Jack and Squat. It did not make me feel better nor did it let me eat more without getting fat. In fact in many ways T3 made me feel worse.

Eating dietary fat is just going to make you fat. At least, it did for me. Because I'm hypo, I guess.

@ilikecats I like your contributions to this forum I really do but sometimes man, I think you get a little overly antognistic for no reason. I really don't want to add fuel to the flame, but some of your quotes really bother me sometimes man. I will attempt to be as neutral as possible though.



Again, YEARS of experience on nofap (probably 5 yrs now) and BTW I nofapped when I was in the best health of my life -- not just when unhealthy, so yes, I feel like I have some authority to speak on this matter. In fact, nofap was initially instrumental to gaining my health in the first place! Which is why it's a crucial piece of my strategy. It helped when I was unhealthy, it also helped dramatically when I was healthy. Again, experience trumps "scientific research" and people with Ph.D's. I may not have a Ph.D. but my IQ is actually pretty far above average, so even though I may be unhealthy, I'm not an idiot. I consider myself pretty wise and able to piece things together. Sure I don't know everything, but that's why I am here and learning. I'll grant you I don't have this kind of experience on some of my other theories, but as far as nofap - I consider that a closed/sealed deal. I literally don't need knowledge of physiology to know it helps me. I don't need any evidence except my own experiences. Blindly listening to "evidence" like excess caffeine intake, excess sugar intake, excess T3 intake, excess saturated fat intake, among many others, is in fact what got me unhealthy in the first place! So no, I don't care about "evidence". I share a lot of Dave's sentiments in that regard. I grant you that many theories that I have only a few days or weeks or even months of experience on, aren't solid enough for me to say is a sealed deal, but I consider 5 yrs a very long time in comparison. True I may not currently be in my optimal state of mind, but I've always considered myself wise and btw I still managed a 4.0 in undergrad school (mechanical engineering) at the unhealthiest in my life. So even at my worst, I have pretty good mind power. I'm definitely excited for what I'll accomplish in life when I actually feel good =)



Yeah that's only a short term study and I'm actually not surprised. I'm more interested in long term studies. There have never been long-term studies on nofap and no I don't count the 7 day study as long term, I'd be more interested in something like a 7 month study. Also there seems to be no mention of studies of the effect of full PMO. The most damaging effects of PMO is the "O" aspect of it. Too many confounding factors, so this is not at all a conclusive study. I'm 100% confident that nofap is the answer but I'd still be curious to see studies proving my experiences. In the spirit of being truly unbiased though I did hear an anecdote one time about a guy who doubled his testosterone levels to almost steroid levels after visiting Thailand I believe it was and messing around with a ton of hot hookers. I need more stories like that to be more conclusive, but my working theory is that having sex with a lot of different hot women (not porn) probably boosts testosterone but that too much sex with the same woman (Unless its karezza) reduces androgens -- Which is why men often stray because they get "Bored". Karezza is the only way to avoid the inevitable "Boredom" unless avoiding monogamy is your goal. There are many theories, but a simple theory is that the guy boosted his T levels astronomically because having sex with a new hot woman really primes the "animal mind" in a man to feel like he is "winning" at life. Winning has been proven to drastically increase testosterone levels. Being with the same woman doesn't activate the "winning" pathway though.

I will say though that I have come to realize we as humans are nothing but a collection of experiences. Our realities and beliefs are mostly shaped by our experiences. What I've experienced is different from you, therefore we fundamentally have different belief systems. As such it is "reality and truth for me", but because I admit human physiology can be complex, may not be "reality and truth for you", necessarily (I think it is, but whatever).
I went from 140-150 lbs in high school to 230 lbs in college with some gains in muscle mass. At 5' 9", that put me well into the obese category. I haven't measured, but I'm hovering around 30-35% body fat at present. No good! I'm trying to get down to 20%.

Well we can definitely agree at least based upon that, that it's probably best to prioritize survival (healing) over reproduction when sick which more or less also agrees with my overall sentiments. I guess the disagreement that remains is, whether or not it's optimal even when healthy. I personally think it is, again based upon personal experience (I haven't always been unhealthy) but that seems to be the primary point of contention but can agree that the delta of health effects when unhealthy vs. healthy is probably less. Actually, it might be the same, but the delta PERCENTAGE may be less, and we're going to feel delta %'s more than delta absolute differences, and thus the differences may be felt more strongly when unhealthy (But I definitely noticed it while well, also). So maybe overall positive hormones are let's say 40% better when unhealthy but only 10-20% better when healthy. In that case, the effects are clearly going to be more noticeable when unhealthy. I am greatly simplifying it by reducing it to one number, but you get the point.
Greater lean body mass radically transforms the aesthetic of a physique at higher body fat percentages. See the attached picture of a bodybuilder at 25-30% body fat. He looks very fit and visually appealing!
 

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DaveFoster

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Why haven't you tried using T3 only and progesterone combined?
Also if starch makes you feel bad then why not eat skim milk and fruits? Why force starch? It's not any easier or even cheaper than using fruits, milk.
It's easier to lose weight eating starch rather than sugar, as sugar's far more appealing. Even though, per calorie, starch stimulates far more insulin secretion by the pancreas, six sweet oranges, rather than two medium potatoes, may be consumed more readily. While remaining relatively inactive, try eating 20 salted potatoes without butter, as well as a few bowls non-fat vegetable soup within a day. You'll find the kitchen a bland purgatory. Through the mediums of white sugar and fruit juice, a person may consume calories well past his basal metabolic rate in the span of a few hours. I know, as I've done it. Add in ice cream, and you can do so in even less time.

Any protein insufficiency can easily be mitigated with a couple glasses of skim milk.

I don't know very many who do well on T3 by itself, and my experience somewhat matches with Dr. Peat. When I took T3, it initially relieved my tension and depression, but the effect completely went away after a few days. I probably felt a bit insane after further continued use. I'd personally sooner use caffeine and progesterone.

There's an idea on this forum that calories don't matter, but even Ray recommends a couple liters of milk, a liter of orange juice, one egg and a carrot for weight loss. Here's an e-mail exchange.

"My recommendation is to eat to increase the metabolic rate (usually temperature and heart rate), rather than any particular foods. Usually the increased metabolic rate, with adequate protein, causes some muscle increase, and when that happens the basic calorie requirement will increase. The increase of muscle mass should continue for several weeks, and during that time the weight might increase a little, but usually the loss of water and fat will compensate for the greater muscle mass. I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories."​
 
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Cirion

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Dave, my experiences well match yours. I am liking starch for similar reasons - Even though it is more endotoxic than sugar and other problems, it is harder to over-eat than sugar and I also found it easy to do so. Over eating sugar started to ruin my teeth too. Funny you mention ice cream as I think that was ultimately my downfall, personally. Ice cream is truly the devil's food and yet, on this forum ice cream is somehow lauded as a "super food". Many top forum members promote it heavily. This forum has wayy too much of a love affair with dietary fat, including myself for a time after being led astray. You can easily get the impression that SFA is beneficial for metabolism and start gulping down SFA rich foods as a result. It doesn't help Ray is not consistent which is why it is dangerous to blindly follow him - he has also said the ideal diet is probably 33/33/33 and he himself ate upwards of 50% fat for a time. I did realize I can easily over-do starch (because of said endotoxic responses), so my compromise is having it more towards night time. My experience has shown me that Ray is mostly right that sugar is less fattening overall, and I do tend to be able to eat more calories when most of my calories are carbs (and sugar at that), so it's been a balance for me, because I feel like crap when my calories are too low, but I am settling on around 3-3.5k calories a day and things seem to be slowly moving in the right direction now without the detrimental effects of super low calories.
 

lampofred

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In case anyone was curious what Ray’s thoughts on this are:

“150 years ago there was a widespread cult that claimed it was harmful (5 Insane Ways Fear of Masturbation Shaped the Modern World | Cracked.com); I assume there are cultural pockets where the attitude survives. There have been anthropologists who claimed that it could cause the downfall of civilization, and that preventing it makes better soldiers.”

Based on personal experience, I have to disagree with Dr. Peat on this one, similar to how I disagree with him on salt being good for you ad libitum. It might be good for you if you are a low serotonin person (as Dr. Peat probably is), especially if you have issues with excess nitric oxide, but masturbation/sex, along with excess sleep, salt, fat, alcohol, and meat shifts you over to serotonin dominance whereas NoFap, fruits, undersleeping, and coffee shift you over to adrenaline dominance.

Low serotonin people don't need to be ascetic so they experience the relaxing benefits of masturbation, but for high serotonin people, I think it would have more negatives than positives.
 
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lampofred

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It's easier to lose weight eating starch rather than sugar, as sugar's far more appealing. Even though, per calorie, starch stimulates far more insulin secretion by the pancreas, six sweet oranges, rather than two medium potatoes, may be consumed more readily. While remaining relatively inactive, try eating 20 salted potatoes without butter, as well as a few bowls non-fat vegetable soup within a day. You'll find the kitchen a bland purgatory. Through the mediums of white sugar and fruit juice, a person may consume calories well past his basal metabolic rate in the span of a few hours. I know, as I've done it. Add in ice cream, and you can do so in even less time.

Any protein insufficiency can easily be mitigated with a couple glasses of skim milk.

I don't know very many who do well on T3 by itself, and my experience somewhat matches with Dr. Peat. When I took T3, it initially relieved my tension and depression, but the effect completely went away after a few days. I probably felt a bit insane after further continued use. I'd personally sooner use caffeine and progesterone.

There's an idea on this forum that calories don't matter, but even Ray recommends a couple liters of milk, a liter of orange juice, one egg and a carrot for weight loss. Here's an e-mail exchange.

"My recommendation is to eat to increase the metabolic rate (usually temperature and heart rate), rather than any particular foods. Usually the increased metabolic rate, with adequate protein, causes some muscle increase, and when that happens the basic calorie requirement will increase. The increase of muscle mass should continue for several weeks, and during that time the weight might increase a little, but usually the loss of water and fat will compensate for the greater muscle mass. I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories."​

I don't know why, but skim milk/low-fat is much more estrogenic for me than whole milk, even though whole milk makes me put on "baby fat" which technically should increase aromatization. Maybe because testosterone/progesterone are fat-soluble and estrogen is water-soluble.

Ice cream is definitely not good for you though. Consuming fat is only worth it if accompanied by high protein imo.
 

Cirion

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I don't know why, but skim milk/low-fat is much more estrogenic for me than whole milk, even though whole milk makes me put on "baby fat" which technically should increase aromatization. Maybe because testosterone/progesterone are fat-soluble and estrogen is water-soluble.

Ice cream is definitely not good for you though. Consuming fat is only worth it if accompanied by high protein imo.

I read a study, I forget if it was here or somewhere else, that showed eating low-fat milk was ironically more estrogenic than high-fat milk. so I'd believe it My experiences also kind of reflect that. Milk is so much of a double-edged sword lol. I think it has no business being in a sick persons' diet, but it may be useful if you're healthy and convert the tryptophan to niacin. Tryptophan is not appreciated enough around here IMO. Eating tryptophan is literally like supplementing serotonin and should be avoided at all costs if you are sick. My experience has shown me that tryptophan is POWERFULLY anti-thyroid.

Because of the randle cycle, eating fat/protein alone is less damaging than fat and sugar, that's really what makes ice cream so bad for you. The individual ingredients are generally not too awful (But I still avoid even non-fat milk), but when you combine the fats - and sugars, say hello bodyfat! I briefly played with eating fat/proteins in separate meals but that was bad too. That's probably okay if you're not too sick, but if you're sick, not a good idea.
 

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